[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

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Originally Posted by L10

Played at the Legacy IQ today. I went 6-3-0. My wins and losses were:
Wins: OmniTell, Burn, Dump Truck (4c Loam), Death and Taxes, Shardless BUG, Lands (Yay!)
Losses: OmniTell x2, UR Painter

I literally lost all of my notes (and my dice bag), and I have a terrible memory. I lost to both OmniTell decks literally a turn before I can go for the win. The match-up seems to sway whoever is on play. I think I have enough hate in my SB. I just need to figure a way to make my deck more explosive than it currently is.

Against UR Painter, they did a deck check on my list, and I forgot to list Spine of Ish Sah from my SB, so I took a game loss. He pitched a Polluted Delta to Force of Will (with painter out) to counter my Metalworker and managed to mill me in turn 3. He also has Goblin Welder out and showed me his Dack Fayden when the match ended. For a second, I almost thought he way playing a Vintage deck. lol I took a look at his list and it was pretty awesome build. It would have probably kicked my Metalworker butt anyways. lol

I finally beat Lands! Having access to two Pithing Needle (thanks to BlackHawkX9) from the SB and two Crucible of Worlds in the MD helped me against this match-up, big time. On Game 3, I managed a Turn 2 Metalworker. On his Turn 2, he managed to bring out Marit Lage. On my Turn 3, I tapped Metalworker, showed all my artifacts, and bring down Steel Hellkite, Forgemaster, and two irrelevant artifacts. I blocked with the Steel Hellkite and fetched for Platinum Emperion with Forgemaster the next turn. Emperion (protected with Greaves) was an All-Star, as he prevent both Marit Lage beats and Grove activation. Eventually, I managed to bring out Ugin (-0 to kill Marit Lage), ultimate with Ugin, and won at a board state with Blightsteel, a couple Wurmcoil Engines, a couple Lodestone Golems, and all his lands destroyed.

The two Voltaic Keys and three Lightning Greaves are still my favorite cards in this deck. Twice today, I managed to make over 20 mana because of Voltaic Key and Metalworker on turn 3. Lightning Greaves is just nuts because having the ability to activate Metalworker or Forgemaster, or get to swing with Steel Hellkite or Blightsteel Colossus, on the same turn makes a world of a difference.

This is my list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-08...l-metalworker/

I think my weakest slots in this list are my two Phyexian Metamorphs. I might replace them with an extra Spine of Ish Sah and Platinum Angel.

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I put an emrakul in my sideboard to help vs. painter decks because it was a rough matchup for me, and it secondarily helps out vs omnitell (sometimes they have to show and tell in emrakul, and if you put one in as well, you get to attack first). It's only 1 sideboard slot so it's not going to wreck your other matchups. It turns painter into a winnable game because they don't know the emrakul comes in, so they don't board graveyard removal. I've also sideboarded emrakul in against high tide for the same reason, and I've won 2 or 3 games vs omnishow and sneaky show because of it.

Just some food for thought.

I have more miscellanous questions after reading the sideboarding guide on pg138:

1) against bant, what do we name with revokers? (what exactly is bant anyway)

2) against punishing jund, what are our best cards against them?

3) whats the difference between 'bant' and 'stoneblade' (in the sideboarding guide)? why are the sideboarding plans different for these? why do we take out platinum against both?

4) why sb in revoker against burn? just for extra blockers in the early game?

5) what do we name with revoker against grixis control? I've seen varying builds running some/none of: dack fayden, jace tms, jace vryns prodigy, tasigur etc

6) how do we fight aggro loam

thanks in advance and sorry for noob questions (if they are noob questions).

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

So you are saying ulamog can now replace blightsteel colossus as a wincon? or did you have something else in mind.

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You can't fetch ulamog with forgemaster, which is the reason blightsteel is in there to begin with.

@Mockingbird, I think our sweet spot is around 8CMC. 10CMC can be out of reach, especially since it doesn't contribute to Metalworker and Lodestone Golem can negatively impact it. I have a feeling that Blightsteel Colossus may just be easier to cast because of this, and Blightsteel Colossus is already one heck of a win-con that may be fetched by Forgemaster. It is also fighting Ugin over the non-artifact slots, in which I am also skeptical if it is better. Either way, I want an 8CMC Eldrazi that is decent.

@Jakobian, thanks for the Emrakul tip. I may just replace a Phyrexian Metamorph over it against OmniShow and the other match-ups you mentioned. I think our game vs. mono-red painter is 55/45 in our favor. Them having an active Welder or a early combo can be rough, but having several Revoker/Needle and Ratchet Bombs from the SB helps this match-up quite a bit. Also, sometimes I just win quicker.

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1) against bant, what do we name with revokers? (what exactly is bant anyway)
If you see a deck with Knight of the Reliquary and Brainstorm, it's Bant. Here is a sample list:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16137&iddeck=120486
I'd probably name Qasali Pridemage in the early game. In the late-mid game, if I have to threats protected, I'd go with Knight of the Reliquary, Jace, or Jitte, depending on the situation.

2) against punishing jund, what are our best cards against them?
Platinum Emperion. Other than Lili, they literally can't deal with Platinum Emperion. It also turns off their Punishing Fire / Grove combo. Revoker/Needle is good to bring in against Lili. Staff of Nin is also good because this tends to be a grindy match-up and card advantage is key. Staff of Nin also harasses Lili and Dark Confidant.

3) whats the difference between 'bant' and 'stoneblade' (in the sideboarding guide)? why are the sideboarding plans different for these?
Bant is more of a tempo deck with high impact creatures utility for low CMC that tends to favor the mid-game. Stoneblade is more of a control deck that aims to ride Batterskull or TNN/Clique+Jitte to victory that tends to favor the long-game.
why do we take out platinum against both?
At 8CMC, Sundering Titan is more of a blowout since it normally guarantees to destroy three lands. If they decide to swords Sundering Titan, they may not have the resources to bounce back to the game.

4) why sb in revoker against burn? just for extra blockers in the early game?
Grim Lavamancer is an option but I personally don't side Revokers in.

5) what do we name with revoker against grixis control? I've seen varying builds running some/none of: dack fayden, jace tms, jace vryns prodigy, tasigur etc
I'd sandbag the Revoker until something relevant comes up.

6) how do we fight aggro loam
Aggro Loam as in the 4c Good Stuff from Lille? Take out the Chalices for Needle/Revoker against Lili. Needle is good about Wasteland and Revoker is good against Mox Diamond. Casting a Sundering Titan is a huge irreversible blowout.

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Anthony Lowry did very poorly with his list.

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

Anthony Lowry did very poorly with his list.

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I'm looking over his list now, that sideboard is weak. Having 5 1cmc drops in a chalice deck is bad news.

Page 152, Troll_ov_grimness's post

No, that was his list for post-BFZ.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...num=16&limit=8

But by all means, he might have made a lot of play mistakes.

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Originally Posted by L10

6) how do we fight aggro loam
Aggro Loam as in the 4c Good Stuff from Lille? Take out the Chalices for Needle/Revoker against Lili. Needle is good about Wasteland and Revoker is good against Mox Diamond. Casting a Sundering Titan is a huge irreversible blowout.

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Are chalices bad against them? I was thinking Chalice on x=2 would be a blowout against them. Would trinisphere have less relevance here? Would bringing in crucible of worlds or ratchet bomb be of any help in this MU?

I don't like setting Chalice @2 on my list because it shuts off my Lightning Greaves x3, Grim Monolith x4, and Revoker x2-x4. Your list may vary. Chalice is strong @2, yes.

how would you board against aggro loam using your list :) just -3 cotv, +3 needle/revoker?

Yup, I normally just straight up trade -4 CotV, +4 Revoker/Needle for my list. If I were to put in the extra Sundering Titan or Platinum Emperion, I'd have to cut Blightsteel, but I think I'd rather just have Blightsteel. Sundering Titan, funnily enough, can also grow Knight to be very scary, so I don't even think I want the second one if the game goes long.

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

No, that was his list for post-BFZ.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...num=16&limit=8

But by all means, he might have made a lot of play mistakes.

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He may have for sure, but I don't like his list and I don't think his sideboard is great. He has factories but no wasteland or crucible; I think you need some wastelands for sure, and I'd prefer crucible in a list running that many factories, plus the wastelands that should realistically be in there. He has the revoker main, staff of nin AND staff of domination (I generally prefer no revokers main and one of the staffs), only 1 planeswalker (prefer a 2nd Ugin but Karn is OK too) and 2 slots in the 75 dedicated to sundering titan.

The only targeted removal in the deck is a 1 of staff of nin; I don't think this is nearly enough. I've been trending the opposite direction, with cards like dismember, triskelion, and contagion clasp and engine, which have been very good. My only issues with that configuration have been mana related, mostly surrounding city of traitors which I am still up in the air about.

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Originally Posted by Rikter

He may have for sure, but I don't like his list and I don't think his sideboard is great. He has factories but no wasteland or crucible; I think you need some wastelands for sure, and I'd prefer crucible in a list running that many factories, plus the wastelands that should realistically be in there. He has the revoker main, staff of nin AND staff of domination (I generally prefer no revokers main and one of the staffs), only 1 planeswalker (prefer a 2nd Ugin but Karn is OK too) and 2 slots in the 75 dedicated to sundering titan.

The only targeted removal in the deck is a 1 of staff of nin; I don't think this is nearly enough. I've been trending the opposite direction, with cards like dismember, triskelion, and contagion clasp and engine, which have been very good. My only issues with that configuration have been mana related, mostly surrounding city of traitors which I am still up in the air about.

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It was an episode of "MUD: what not to do".

I like the explosiveness of the Sol Lands and Vesuva despite their drawbacks.
Mishra's Factory is not enough to replace Wasteland, especially a full set of it.
Not enough spot/board removals.
Spellskite is a narrow answer.

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

It was an episode of "MUD: what not to do".

I like the explosiveness of the Sol Lands and Vesuva despite their drawbacks.
Mishra's Factory is not enough to replace Wasteland, especially a full set of it.
Not enough spot/board removals.
Spellskite is a narrow answer.

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Too true. I like factory only in a crucible list that also runs wastelands, not in place of wasteland. Waste isn't fantastic vs. the delver lists, but it can do work there. I mostly use it to knock out Chasm/Depths/Stage/Maze of Ith in lands, Karakas in the lists that play it because recursive anything needs to stop, and Infects man lands. If you have the other guy under a 3sphere then wasteland becomes an uncounterable time walk.

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

It was an episode of "MUD: what not to do".

I like the explosiveness of the Sol Lands and Vesuva despite their drawbacks.
Mishra's Factory is not enough to replace Wasteland, especially a full set of it.
Not enough spot/board removals.
Spellskite is a narrow answer.

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His mana base is fine . Cutting Wasteland completely is a good choice . Mishra's Factory is there mainly to activate Forgemaster with.

Phyrexian Revoker should be another Ugin .

Trinisphere and Platinum Emperion I like to cut for another draw engine either Staff Of Nin or Coercive Portal

(Platinum Emperion is an 8 drop, I like to lower the top end of my deck)

Wurmcoil Engine is a 6 drop and there should be another of him or another Steel Hellkite .

I like his mana base

his deck list is cool I think but I think he's underestimating the grindyness of the deck.

I'd be playing a Spellskite or two if I owned any fyi and cut the Staff Of Domination combo, which makes Lightning Greaves a lot worse . My opponent very often casts Swords in response to the Greaves.

Without Wastelands, your answers to Lands is very narrow, relying on Pithing Needle or Bridge. Wasteland may end up delaying lands enough for you to win.

If you're having problems with Lands, maybe playing some Tsabo's Web in the deck could help?

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Originally Posted by darkgh0st

Without Wastelands, your answers to Lands is very narrow, relying on Pithing Needle or Bridge. Wasteland may end up delaying lands enough for you to win.

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I wouldn't Waste that deck if I could I would wait until I had Chalice at 2 at least.

Another thing that would be interesting in the sideboard is Winter Orb. Has some applications vs. Miracles AND Lands. You can break the symmetry of the Orb with Metalworker and just Sol-Lands themselves.