[Deck] Goblins

So I'll be the first to say that I think Krenko is better than cute. I think he just flat out wins games, especially with haste being involved. In grindy midrange games, he's capable of making more tokens than the opponents can deal with very quickly. And unlike Kiki-Jiki, I think he's strong enough in almost any and every situation to warrant playing, and there ARE times I'd rather see him than Siege-Gang Commander. And if left unanswered, he's the biggest Goblin threat in existence at only 4 mana. I'm running one, and am about to start playing around with a pair of them.

Also, while trolling around with Krenko, this happened:

My hand, going second: Mountain, Cavern, Vial, Krenko, SGC, Chieftain, Piledriver.

Opponent: Tundra, ESG, ESG, Shardless Agent into Hypergenesis.

He drops Warstorm Surge/Emrakul and puts me to 3. I Drop both land, Krenko, SGC, Chieftain, Driver. I EOT make seven dudes, untap, draw a land, make 14 more dudes, and swing with 24 2/2 tokens, a Chieftain, a Siege-Gang, and a 53/2 Piledriver.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

So I'll be the first to say that I think Krenko is better than cute. I think he just flat out wins games, especially with haste being involved. In grindy midrange games, he's capable of making more tokens than the opponents can deal with very quickly. And unlike Kiki-Jiki, I think he's strong enough in almost any and every situation to warrant playing, and there ARE times I'd rather see him than Siege-Gang Commander. And if left unanswered, he's the biggest Goblin threat in existence at only 4 mana. I'm running one, and am about to start playing around with a pair of them.

Also, while trolling around with Krenko, this happened:

My hand, going second: Mountain, Cavern, Vial, Krenko, SGC, Chieftain, Piledriver.

Opponent: Tundra, ESG, ESG, Shardless Agent into Hypergenesis.

He drops Warstorm Surge/Emrakul and puts me to 3. I Drop both land, Krenko, SGC, Chieftain, Driver. I EOT make seven dudes, untap, draw a land, make 14 more dudes, and swing with 24 2/2 tokens, a Chieftain, a Siege-Gang, and a 53/2 Piledriver.

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Oh, that is just adorable! Krenko is toooo cute.
I can't wait to get my playset from SCG. I'll probably never use all 4, but I can easily see playing 2 in the 75.

I'm at 2 here too... he's awesome.

Edit: to quote myself:

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Krenko, on the other hand, is proving to be awesome. My count is @2 too. 1 activation from it will win you the game against fair decks.
Don't know if that is enough reason to run 2, but he is so fun. Is like adding a (another) minigame to the deck. If your opponent can't answer it, he'll lose.

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What is everyone running Krenko over? Removal? Winstigators? I'm having trouble finding space for him in the deck...

I moved Tuktuk Scrapper into the board to fit in Krenko.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

So I'll be the first to say that I think Krenko is better than cute.

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Not even close, dude.

@ Marcello and Jon:
I found a pair of Krenko in my mailbox today!
Your oppinions on Krenko made me want to integrate him in my current decklist, which looks as follows:

//Mana [21]
4 Wastes
2 Ports
4 Caverns
11 Mountains

//Core [22]
...

//Others [17]
4 Piledriver
3 MWM
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Gempalms
2 Stinger
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember

Let me explain my problem:
It's difficult for me to make room for more than 1 Krenko. However, I want to have 2 copies in my MD in order to occassionally draw him once in a while. With only 1 copy the odds on drawing one (or netting one with Ringleader) are quite low and (as I view the deck and it's MUs right now) I can't imagine to tutor him with Matron too often. So there must be two copies.
The questions is: what should I cut?
Currently I'm running 9 spotremoval. I've explained elsewhere in this thread why 9 is a good number, but in order to squeeze Krenko in, I could cut my spotremoval down to 8 (thereby kicking 1 Dismember).
So, only 1 more Krenko who needs a home. What would you cut here?
* Skirk Prospector: he's in the spot of my 22nd land. He's the one that can deal with Jitte. He's the one that synergizes with Krenko (when needed). I won't cut him.
* 4th Piledriver: The more I play the deck the more I wonder how anyone is content with less than 4 Piledrivers. He might be an option but then again I cut a card that synergizes perfectly with Krenko. It feels like digging one hole to fill another.
* 3rd MWM: same shit as with Piley.

Soooo, any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

Soooo, any suggestions?

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Prospector is busted with Krenko. Don't cut him.
I thing you can be fine by running 8 removal, like you said, so there's your 1st one.
The 2nd one there are 3 options:
1 - Piledriver
2 - MWM
3 - SGC.
If it is just for testing purpose, then you can cut any of those, just to see how Krenko play out.
Then, if you REALLY want to keep playing 2, you try to decide (after the testings), which one sinergizes more poorly with him.
If I were you, knowing that you like Piledrivers and MWM that much, I'd try to get by with just 1 SGC, and start testing from there.

Cutting one Dismember for Krenko sounds good. For the second Krenko, you can cut the second Dismember, or maybe even one SGC. Cutting a SGC may be an option because having too many high CMC cards in the early game may be dead draws. And with the second Krenko, leaving Vial @ 4 has more uses. You can save Vial @ 4 for future Ringleaders or a second Krenko if he died. The issue is that only having 1 SGC means that you probably won't draw it and probably won't search for him with Matron either. I would not cut Skirk Prospector, Piledriver, or MWM.

Krenko is pretty fucking bonkers fwiw, I honestly think he's going to replace my SGC's as being the "other" high CC Goblins next to Ringleaders. I'll probably miss the reach at some point, but being 4cc is just so much better than 5cc when you're dropping Krenko off of a Frogtosser or Warchief, 2 feels about right.

Been testing Krenko, and thata guy is awesome! He wins games!

My actual decklist:

// Lands
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [TE] Wasteland
13 [ZEN] Mountain (2)

// Creatures
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
3 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [US] Goblin Matron
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
2 [10E] Siege-Gang Commander
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
3 [TSP] Mogg War Marshal
1 [M13] Krenko, Mob Boss

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [LRW] Tarfire

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Stingscourger
SB: 2 [AT] Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 [WWK] Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 3 [5E] Pyroblast
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void

Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Final Fortune

Krenko is pretty fucking bonkers fwiw, I honestly think he's going to replace my SGC's as being the "other" high CC Goblins next to Ringleaders. I'll probably miss the reach at some point, but being 4cc is just so much better than 5cc when you're dropping Krenko off of a Frogtosser or Warchief, 2 feels about right.

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I don't think we can afford to cut SGC entirely. He just win so many random matchups and locked up games, while adding so much versatility. Cut him to 1, bt not to 0.
(but well, I might be wrong, as usual...)

@Gobolord: I'd cut the last Dismember for Krenko. The idea is that you cut the, arguably, worst piece of removal in your deck for a combo card that will win you the game against fair decks if you can activate it.

Hey guys. Regards from holiday.

So, I found someone to test with and made experiences with Krenko. He is awesome and I'll never play without two of them.

I cut 2 Piledriver because Krenko often does his job better. I also play with 1 Tarfire, 3 Pyrokinesis, 2 Stingscourger and 3 Incinerator.

I also won't cut Prospector or MWM.

For all, who like exercises:

You are goldfishing and on the draw. You can chose the ten cards you want to draw within the first 3 turns. What is the highest amount of damage you can deal in the third turn?

My highest result was 86 so far. Does anyone get more?

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Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2

My highest result was 86 so far. Does anyone get more?

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This was a fun thought experiment. I got 111.

My opening hand:
Chrome Mox, Any non-artifact red card, Mountain, Warren Instigator, Goblin Warchief, Krenko, Mob Boss, and Goblin Chieftain.
Stacked on top of my library would be Skirk Prospector, followed by 2 Goblin Piledrivers.

Turn 1: Draw Prospector, play Mountain. Play Mox, remove random red card. Play WI.
0 damage total

Turn 2: Draw Piley, attack with WI. Drop Warchief, then Krenko. Play Chieftain. Make 4 dudes.
2 damage total

Turn 3: Draw Piley. Play Prospector and 1 Piley. Make 10 dudes. Sac one for R and play 2nd Piley. Attack for 109.
111 damage total

Opening hand: Cavern, Chrome Mox, Instigator, Krenko, Warchief, Piledriver, Piledriver

Turn 1:
- Draw Random Goblin
- Play Cavern and Chrome Mox with Random Goblin
- Play Instigator
Damage = 0

Turn 2:
- Draw Piledriver
- Attack with Instigator
- Cheat in Krenko and Warchief
- Play Two Piledrivers
- Tap Krenko for 5 Tokens
Damage = 2

Turn 3:
- Draw Piledriver
- Play Two Piledrivers
- Tap Krenko for 12 Tokens
- Attack with Instigator, Warchief, 4 Piledrivers, and 17 Tokens
Damage = 201

Grand Total = 203

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Originally Posted by GoboLord

//Mana [21]
4 Wastes
2 Ports
4 Caverns
11 Mountains

//Core [22]
...

//Others [17]
4 Piledriver
3 MWM
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Gempalms
2 Stinger
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember

Let me explain my problem:
It's difficult for me to make room for more than 1 Krenko. However, I want to have 2 copies in my MD in order to occassionally draw him once in a while. With only 1 copy the odds on drawing one (or netting one with Ringleader) are quite low and (as I view the deck and it's MUs right now) I can't imagine to tutor him with Matron too often. So there must be two copies.
The questions is: what should I cut?
Currently I'm running 9 spotremoval. I've explained elsewhere in this thread why 9 is a good number, but in order to squeeze Krenko in, I could cut my spotremoval down to 8 (thereby kicking 1 Dismember).
So, only 1 more Krenko who needs a home. What would you cut here?
* Skirk Prospector: he's in the spot of my 22nd land. He's the one that can deal with Jitte. He's the one that synergizes with Krenko (when needed). I won't cut him.
* 4th Piledriver: The more I play the deck the more I wonder how anyone is content with less than 4 Piledrivers. He might be an option but then again I cut a card that synergizes perfectly with Krenko. It feels like digging one hole to fill another.
* 3rd MWM: same shit as with Piley.

Soooo, any suggestions?

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I like your list a lot, except for the removal part. I totally support 9 pieces of removal, but would prefer it to be goblin shaped, since we can. Why don't you play sharpshooter, with Prospector and MWM? I'd also add a Chieftain for all these tokens.
I haven't tested Krenko yet and would start out as a 1-off, since he's legendary and tutorable. I mean this is the big advantage of a matron: it can always provide you what the situation affords and if it's a Prospector I'd take him right away. So usually half of your deck is available.
What about:

Manabase (21):
4x Cavern
4x Waste
2x Port
11x Mountain

Core (21):
-1x SGC

Flex (18):
3x Piledriver
2x MWM
1x Prospector
1x Chieftain
1x Sharpshooter
1x Krenko

3x Incinerator
2x Stinger
2x Fanatic
1x Tarfire
1x Pyrokinesis

If I'd fit another Krenko in there I'd probably cut the Pyrokinesis. And if I don't see any use for tarfire anymore I'd play a 4th Incinerator over it any day-since it is the best removal available. Especially with Krenko he can campete with dismember all day long.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pee-Dee-2

For all, who like exercises:

You are goldfishing and on the draw. You can chose the ten cards you want to draw within the first 3 turns. What is the highest amount of damage you can deal in the third turn?

My highest result was 86 so far. Does anyone get more?

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How about on the play:
Turn 1: Mountain, Go
Turn 2: Mountain, Warren Instigator, Go
Turn 3: Attack--> Kikki-Jikki, Lightning Crafter
(damage: infinite)

Sorry for the double post.

Opening Hand: Two Mountains, Chrome Mox, Instigator, Warchief, Krenko, Ringleader

Turn 1:
- Draw Random Goblin
- Play Chrome Mox with Random Goblin, Mountain, Instigator
Damage = 0

Turn 2:
- Draw Mountain
- Play Mountain and Warchief
- Attack with Instigator and Warchief
- Cheat in Krenko and Ringleader (which grabs 4 Piledrivers)
- Tap Krenko for 4 Tokens
Damage = 4

Turn 3:
- Draw Goblin Pyromancer
- Play Mountain and 4 Piledrivers
- Tap Krenko for 12 Tokens
- Attack with Instigator*, Warchief, Ringleader, 4 Piledrivers, and 16 Tokens
* Cheat in Pyromancer with Instigator on first strike
Damage = 271

Grand Total = 275

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Tacosnape: This may have nothing to do with Flash, but I was so amused by it I had to bring it up. IBA suggests Brightstone Ritual as a bizarre answer to Empty the Warrens, so I started testing it against some ETW tossing decks. Here's one of my best results ever and quite possibly the best turn one in the history of Vial Goblins:

Opponent: Turn one, ridiculous shit, 16 ETW Tokens:

Me: (Opening Hand: Plateau, Wasteland, Brightstone Ritual, Brightstone Ritual, Warchief, Ringleader, Matron)

-Plateau, Ritual for 16, Warchief, Ringleader (10 floating.)
-(Ringleader hits Ringleader, Gempalm, Piledriver.)
-Ringleader (7 Floating.)
-(Ringleader hits Matron, Matron, Sharpshooter, Piledriver. Sweet!)
-Matron for Ringleader, Piledriver, Ringleader (1 Floating).
-(Ringleader hits Lackey, SGC)
-Brightstone Ritual for 22, Piledriver, Matron for Matron, Matron for Driver, Matron for Driver, Piledriver, Piledriver, Sharpshooter, Lackey, Gempalm, Siege-Gang (5 Floating.)
-Sharpshooter off all tokens.
-Mana Burn for 5.
-Swing for 179.

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I guess Tacosnape still has the best post on Vial Goblins ever made.

I'm hoping we see a Krenko in a Top-8 in about 17 hours.