[Primer] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by Warden

Unfortunately, I cannot replace what white offers in Path/Swords/Council's Judgment.

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Although I've been experimenting with a few BUG builds lately, I consider a pure BG build to be my core build. I've never actually found a lack of white to be a problem. Black has all the removal tools you need in Toxic Deluge, Deed, Diabolic Edict, Abrupt Decay, and Maelstrom Pulse. Edict is in some ways even better than Swords, for example being an efficient answer to an Emrakul or TNN. Red adds some other options too. I actually think removal is the least of the reasons these days to be in white. Ranger of Eos, Stoneforge Mystic, Sigarda, and Rhino are all the main draws to the color.

White also adds more sideboard tech in cards like containment priest, Gaddock Teeg, sanctum prelate, RiP.......

Although I do agree with Brael, a lot of the splash colors aren't needed for the simple grind factor.

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Originally Posted by Kobra_D

White also adds more sideboard tech in cards like containment priest, Gaddock Teeg, sanctum prelate, RiP.......

Although I do agree with Brael, a lot of the splash colors aren't needed for the simple grind factor.

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All good options, I guess my point was that you don't need white for removal, black already offers everything you need there. If you're in white, you're there for the creatures.

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Originally Posted by Brael

All good options, I guess my point was that you don't need white for removal, black already offers everything you need there. If you're in white, you're there for the creatures.

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Every event I go to I see a ton of marit tokens. Edict isn't as strong as PTE in my experience because anything that's not lands.dec has fodder to toss instead of the asshole you want dead.

@Warden Great post, loved reading it!

For Rhino lists, I've been on 4 Library-esque effects (1 Library, 3 Guile) and have been loving it. Dropping one of those early does smoothe out your draws as if you were piloting a blue deck.

Played 2 rounds with Flash in the Tournament Constructed rooms on MTGO now. Both were 2-0's, reanimator and pile. I'll likely take it through a league soon, I just need to get comfortable enough with the MTGO interface, the timer is a real issue for me.

I think I still prefer my usual GB builds, but this one has been rather interesting.

@Warden. I think your R5 opponent was not on Czech cuz Czech does not play Delver nor Cabal. Rather a 4 color delver !

Thanks for the write-up !!!

Cheers,

Ralf

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Originally Posted by fonzdizon

Salutations everyone, I've been observing this forum for sometime now, and this Depths shell has peaked my interest since it's inception here a few months ago and was inspired by bobmans list to build one of my own. Seeing now that the Depths shell is picking up some steam I'd like to throw my list into the mix to try and stir the pot.

Maindeck 61

Lands 22
x3 Verdant Catacombs
x2 Windswept Heath
x2 Bayou
x1 Savannah
x1 Scrubland
x3 Forest
x2 Swamp
x1 Plains
x1 Dryad Arbor
x1 Thespian Stage
x1 Dark Depths
x1 Phyrexian Tower
x1 Bojuka Bog
x1 Karakas
x1 Wasteland

Creature Spells 17
x4 Veteran Explorer
x1 Deathrite Shaman
x1 Sylvan Safekeeper
x1 Gaddock Teeg
x1 Eternal Witness
x1 Ramunap Excavator
x2 Knight of the Reliquary
x2 Tireless Tracker
x1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
x1 Thragtusk
x1 Titania Protector of Argoth
x1 Primeval Titan

Non-creature spells 22
x4 Green Sun's zenith
x4 Cabal Therapy
x3 Crop Rotation
x3 Path to exile
x2 Sylvan Library
x2 Diabolic Intent
x3 Pernicious Deed
x1 Toxic Deluge

Sideboard (Catered to LGS meta)
x1 Engineered Explosives
x1 Cavern of souls
x1 Relic of Progenitus
x2 Thoughtsieze
x1 Surgical Extraction
x1 Circle of protection: Red
x1 Ethersworn Canonist
x2 Containment Priest
x1 Lost Legacy
x1 Pulse of Murasa
x1 Vindicate
x1 Toxic Deluge
x1 Nissa Vital Force

Titania + Safekeeper steals games

Trackers seem grind out games where you fail to combo off with Explorer

Teeg is the main as a desperate play to try and win game 1's against fast combo decks and new miracles

Meren, Excavator, Wasteland and Intent #2 feel like they can flexed out

Volraths Stronghold, Maze of Ith are under consideration

Yay or nay?

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Hey guys, would just like to report an Updated list that I got 3-1 with in LGS tournament.

The list is essentially the same above but
-1 Path of exile
-1 Tireless Tracker
+1 Vindicate
+1 Scavenging Ooze

The SB is currently
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thoughtseize
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to exile
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Containment Priest
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kambal Consul of Allocation
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Lost Legacy

Lost to R/G lands in the first round and then came back to beat 4-color Leovold ,R/G lands, and Belcher

The single Wasteland paired with Excavator and Safekeeper dominated the 2nd match-up with R/G lands

The maindeck Teeg managed to steal a game one with Belcher

Congrats on the result!

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Played a full day of Nyx Fit yesterday, started out with the following build:

Main (61):
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Phyrexian Tower

1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Lingering Souls
4 Academy Rector

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Pernicious Deed

2 Mirri's Guile
2 Sylvan Library
3 Evolutionary Leap

1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Dovescape
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming splendor

Sideboard:
1 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Sandwurm Convergence
2 Ground Seal

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Took this modified list to a short 3 round event, ended 2-1 on some incredible luck.

Swapped 2 Brutalities for Thoughtseize to give earlier plays/control. Balanced the Guiles/Library for personal preference. Removed Duress from the board in place of Thoughtseize and 2 Ground Seals, reduced a pithing needle for Sandwurms.

Eldrazi Post: 0-2

Game 1, I was able to chain Explorers (and find subsequent GSZ's useless) but no pay off Rectors. I did manage to hard cast Splendor, but it was eaten by an Ugin two turns later. Kozilek's cast trigger still works through the Splendor effect.
Game 2, I was able to get Rector out, but I was constantly a turn behind between playing my answers and taking out countermeasures. I ended with a Rector and Deed out but short mana, which were both eliminated by Ulamog.

Lands: 2-0

Game 1, Lands tried to aggressively GQ out of the game. I managed to fire off a Rector just in time for a Cruel Reality. I probably should've lost this game to an early natural combo.
Game 2, Lands was setting up their plan and an early Ground Seal stalled their game. Mirri's Guile helped smooth the draws. Explorer stalled the ground against Tracker, and then subsequent Souls tokens did that as well. Ground Seal ate a Grip, but was followed up with another Seal. A Rector eventually fired off through Leap (which ate another Grip), but I was able to get another Rector out for Splendor, followed by Reality.

Lands: 2-0

Game 1, Lands managed to get an early Marit Lage. They had to burn all Rotations due to an incoming Cabal Therapy so ended up with less than optimal mana on board. I escalated a Brutality to go to 22 and discard a Punishing Fire. Took 20, then fired off Academy Rector to get Cruel Reality. Managed to chain Explorers and Rectors until I got Dovescape and Splendor on board.

Game 2, Lands had a ton of bad luck, but I was able to chain Explorers. An early Groundseal stalled the game. Popped a Rector to get Sandwurms to eat his Krosan Grip (in hindsight, made the mistake of taking out Dovescape), then hardcast Splendor to slow him down severely. Eventually popped another Rector to win with Reality, although I likely would've lost if opponent ever dredged Grove, since I was eating Library triggers.

Overall fun deck, but definitely needs a main board pay off card to GSZ for. I think Sigarda would be great, although you will lose Evolutionary Leap digs more often.

Hi guys,

I'm testing yet another variant of nic fit, helm fit feat brainstorm :smile:

CARD QUALITY 11

4 brainstorm
2 ponder
3 greensun's zenith
2 crop rotation

CARD ADVANTAGE 3

1 jace the mindsculptor
1 tireless tracker
1 fact or fiction

INTERACTION 11

4 cabal therapy
3 collective brutality
2 pernicious deed
1 abrupt decay
1 diabolic edict

CREATURES 9

4 veteran explorer
1 dryad arbor
1 leovold my man
1 eternal witness
1 trashing brontodon
1 thragtusk

COMBO 7

4 leyline of the void : original LOTV represents
3 helm of obediance

LANDS 20

6 basics 2 of each
3 duals 2 trop 1 bayou
1 phyrexian tower
1 volrath's stronghold
1 karakas
4 misty rain forest
4 verdant catacomb

13G 12U 11B

So the theory crafting goes like this :

The 6 cantrips help you to get away with the low land count and to switch from controlling to comboing while smoothing your draws (drawing redondant combo piece is less a problem with 4 brain storm , 3 brutality and jace)
You don't have to go for the combo ASAP but you can turn 2 some one with a tower start (and a god hand) instead you use your cantrip to draw into removal and discards and eventually win.
I tried to have the most versatile cards and have them cover as many bases as I could. That's why I choose helm leyline as my kill, because leyline can also be a game winning disruption piece.

I feel I should explain my most controversial choices, so here it is :

Not playing strix?

Strix is a cantripping removal that give the choice of the timing and the target to the opponment, and it's hard on the mana.
As there is few slots for interaction I want my removal to be A) very effective like deed or decay B) a swiss army knife.


So 3 collective brutality?

It does so much !
Worried about conterspell ? brutality !
A utility guy is peskering you ? brutality !
You are racing ? brutality !
You are playing against Burn? so much fun!

pitching dead cards (according to the match up : explorer, second leyline, removal) to escalate is such a tempo play.

playing 7 maindeck discard spell is nice, couple that with some actual counterspells from the sideboard and game 2 vs combo feels better.


Fact or fiction ?

To be honnest I think it is fiction.
It was the second jace but UU is tough, instant speed is nice, digging 5 is nice, let me playtest my nostalgia for a while will you?
I don't know what the 3rd CA slot should be. Search for impulsion is my best guess.


Trashing brontodon?

Worse than rec sage a blowing things, worse than qasali at going agro. But it is good at blocking and turns greensun into a 5 mana desenchant.
It is like brutality : not the best but polyvalent.


karakas instead of another fetch/dual?

Guess what I fear more show and tell than wasteland. Not being cold to some unfair stratégies game 1 is nice, with the crop rots and the edict we have 4 cards against big dumb monster, 8 if some graveyard shenanigans are involved.
That is some serious controlling :tongue:


So that's my curent ramblings, feel free to comment.
Have a nice week end.

I wanted to throw my list down for comparison...


4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Progenitus

3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Dryad Arbor

It’s designed to win much easier than other lists utilizing Natural Order since it’s a one card combo.

Try the above list here, playing it will make you a believer: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/natural-fit/

Any suggestions on improving this approach? Any cards I should cut or add?

Some other creatures already under consideration that I could be convinced to run if you can make an argument to cutting something to include them are...
Fauna Shaman - This used to be in the deck, where the 3rd Deathrite Shaman currently sits
Sylvan Safekeeper - Xantid Swarm and Leovold fill this role better
Ramunap Excavator - Would take the 3cc place of Tireless Tracker
Thrashing Brontodon - The hope is that Thoughtseize, Decay and Deed both recoupable by Witness and the combo win are enough
Sylvan Library - Brainstorm already fills this role
Scavenging Ooze - Deathrite, Thoughtseize, Leovold and Wurm help with graveyard combo matchups
Etc.

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

Any suggestions on improving this approach? Any cards I should cut or add?

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Blue is doing nothing for you in that build. Splashing just for Brainstorm isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by Brael

Blue is doing nothing for you in that build. Splashing just for Brainstorm isn't worth it.

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Brainstorm and Leovold are both amazing cards and you can use Zenith or Fauna Shaman to get Leovold into play which is nuts. Plus Brainstorm (in addition to being fantastic with all the shuffle effects the deck already runs) gives the deck yet another way to shuffle away the one single dead draw in the whole deck, the Progenitus, Shaman serves this function as well.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

List & report.

Overall fun deck, but definitely needs a main board pay off card to GSZ for. I think Sigarda would be great, although you will lose Evolutionary Leap digs more often.

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First of all, I'm flattered to see my base build being used by another pilot! Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree on your last comment. The deck often enough has the mana to power it out and it would help you get out of so many binds.

How did you like the Guile/Library package?

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Originally Posted by Brael

Blue is doing nothing for you in that build. Splashing just for Brainstorm isn't worth it.

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Don't bother. Just let the guy play with his Natural Orders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brael

Blue is doing nothing for you in that build. Splashing just for Brainstorm isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

Brainstorm and Leovold are both amazing cards and you can use Zenith or Fauna Shaman to get Leovold into play which is nuts. Plus Brainstorm (in addition to being fantastic with all the shuffle effects the deck already runs) gives the deck yet another way to shuffle away the one single dead draw in the whole deck, the Progenitus, Shaman serves this function as well.

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I agree with Brael on this one. Brainstorm is really stretching the deck for no reason. Either go deep into blue for cantrips and synergy or stay out of it. 1 trop could probably be reliable enough to muscle out the single leovold (4 zenith, 3 drs, 1 trop, x fetches to find some way to produce U is feasible). It may even make more sense to just play NO-BUG, as the Nic Fit plan gets in the way of a more effective shell.

1 arbor (in lands section)
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Xantid Swarm ---> +1 slot
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest -----> remove if not in blue (+1 slot?)
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth --------> +1 slot
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth ----> +1 slot
1 Elderscale Wurm ---------------> +1 slot (sideboard?)
1 Progenitus

The biggest selling point on Natural Order is that you can say "oops I win with a boom boom". Progenitus is the poster child and arguably the best thing we could run. I still believe Carnage Tyrant fits into the deck because muscling him out early or straight up casting him is crushing. Tyrant entering play turn 2 or 3 will likely steamroll fair decks. His trample makes all the difference in racing while hexproof means there are only a handful of cards that interact with him outside of CJ or some sort of edict effect. Other nice threats to consider are Ruric Thar (anti-combo/spells), Simic Sky Swallower (flying, shroud, trample), and Terastodon (potential 18 damage to race with/anti-permanents). I think the 15/15 wurm is better suited for sneak attack decks.

Low cc guys should be Vet, DRS, and Fauna. There are pros and cons to Fauna Shaman's inclusion in general. She is the only way you can recycle a progenitus sans blue. I don't believe in Xantid. I'm not sold so much on the above choice in 4 or 5 drops. Personally, I'd prefer to go into threats that generate green tokens. This gives me a sac target to NO and/or prevents edicts from being game-over. Master of the Wild Hunt, Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Regis, and the 4G spider thing come to mind. The bonus is that they double as decent threats under the natural Nic Fit plan. Meren is card #61 for me here.

For spells, I want protection for NO with discard and typical Nic Fit removal. This would be my foundation. Maybe remove a thoughtseize in favor of a 3rd decay.

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Sylvan Library
2 Decay
2 Deed

At NO BUG, what does proggie along with 3 NO provide that is better then just one Carnage Tyrant?

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Originally Posted by Echelon

First of all, I'm flattered to see my base build being used by another pilot! Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree on your last comment. The deck often enough has the mana to power it out and it would help you get out of so many binds.

How did you like the Guile/Library package?

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Package was okay. I liked Guile being able to come out early, and redundant copies of Library/Guile played well with Deeds. I liked getting the Libraries late game so I could have the mana to burn extra cards.

I think a green creature to act as a mana sink late game would be good, but still needs to be okay off of both GSZ and Leap, and still be playable early game.

Scavenging Ooze may fit the bill. It isn't quite the finisher that Sigarda is, but if you draw off of a Leap then it's not terrible. It still works with GSZ as opposed to a X creature (like a Hydra).

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

At NO BUG, what does proggie along with 3 NO provide that is better then just one Carnage Tyrant?

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If this was toward my recent post above, I was referring to a dedicated NO-BUG deck (8 dork, blue shell of counters/cantrips) possibly being better suited than cramming NO into a BUG-flavored Nic Fit list.

Played a league with Flash on MTGO. I went 3-2 in rounds and 8-3 in games. One round loss was due to the timer. I started another league and I'm currently 1-3 in it in rounds and 4-2 in games, one legit loss and 2 due to the timer after 1-0. It's hard to say if the deck is good or not, of the 5 rounds I've lost so far 3 have been to the timer in matchups where either player could win (but I was feeling confident going into them), 1 was to just getting got by mono red sneak, and the other was to storm t2'ing me in both games. My 4 wins have been against burn, storm, maverick, and grixis control. My timer losses were to DnT, maverick, and something I don't remember.

Between leagues I made some pretty substantial changes to the list. I don't have a list of all the in's and out's but hopefully I remember them all. Here's the current build:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bug-flash-fit/

Sorry for the bad formatting, I'm just copy/pasting off my above list.
Land (21)

2x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
2x Island
1x Karakas
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Swamp
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Enchantment (2)

2x Search for Azcanta

Artifact (1)

1x Umezawa's Jitte

Creature (18)

4x Dark Confidant
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Horizon Chimera
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Pack Guardian
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tireless Tracker
4x Veteran Explorer

Instant (10)

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
2x Crop Rotation
2x Diabolic Edict

Sorcery (8)

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)

1x Carpet of Flowers
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Duress
3x Lost Legacy
1x Notion Thief
1x Pulse of Murasa
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Sylvan Library
1x Toxic Deluge

So the biggest change: Bob is back. The substitutes didn't work. The Bob breakthrough was what allowed for SE to actually function, and the blue options simply aren't good enough. Jace VP does nothing due to Karakas, Baleful Strix isn't enough advantage. Search for Azcanta is still nice though. So with the return of the king, the CMC needs cleaned up a bit. No more Cloudthresher, no more EDF. These guys weren't pulling their weight anyways. This means the list tops out at 4. Both of my 4's are flash. Pack Guardian, which has been doing well at killing Jace's and eating Thalia's and Horizon Chimera which gives us another body in the air, with some upside. Believe it or not, it's good. Leovold made it in too, because he doesn't lose to Karakas.

As for the sieboard, I cut back slightly on my alternative mana plan, The DRS and carpet are still there, but it means only 2 vets come out against burn. Most of the SB is more flash focused but Reclamation Sage and Toxic Deluge will force a tap out.

I'm having good initial success so far with Bob back in aided by Azcanta's to keep your hand flush with cards.