Could you guys tell me if the strict uw stonebladelist with some factories and moorland haunt is still a good choicr in the meta right now?
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Could you guys tell me if the strict uw stonebladelist with some factories and moorland haunt is still a good choicr in the meta right now?
Hey Guys,
I finished 5:0 in 1st place at our last local legacy turney.
Wanted to share my list with you which I will play this Saturday again:
Maindeck: 60 Cards10 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
30 Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte
20 Lands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
Sideboard: 15 Karten
2 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Electrickery
2 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
My MUīs were:
Round 1 UWRb Blade (With YP+Therapy+Zealous Persecution Tech in the SB): Won 2:0
Round 2 RUG Delver: Won 2:0
Round 3 Elves: Won 2:1
Round 4 Sneak Show: Won 2:0
Round 5 BW Deadguy: Won 2:0
The deck was a blast to play and Dig through time was just super flexible and finds the right card at the right time when needed.
I know 4 TNN are very unuasual but I really like it! I played with that configuration in my Deathblade too and it was never ever a problem and I never wished it was something different.
Before TC I had a split between 2 Vendilion Clique and 2 TNN but in the current meta we need a resilent, strong beater to finish the game. Also the meta is currently full of Bolts, Swords, Red Blast`s and Clique dieīs to just everything...
I really like the 2:2:2 Splitt between Snare/Pierce/CS too because it gives you flexible answers to different questions.
@Manipulato:
I'm currently testing something similar, and liked it so far as a way to beat UR. There are two notable differences though:
- I'm playing 3 top and 3 counterbalance in your 6 countermagic slots.
- I've been prefering TC over DTT after testing both, mainly because I've won most of the games where I TC'd first, and TC is easier to cast and to chain.
These differences are coming directly from Bob Huang (Akatsuki on TheSource)'s 75 and its transformational sideboard, where he's siding out Delver and Daze for 3 top and 3 counterbalance. I'm basically playing his post-board deck. Imho counterbalance is much better positionned than Pierce/Snare/Counterspell at the moment.
I am also playing 4 Nemesis, mainly because the deck is threat-light and needs something that sticks on the board. I found that the one thing missing in this deck is a sweeper, or at least something better than bolt in the control role (sudden shock may be a viable option, and it also helps the curve for counterbalance).
Happy to share test results if you ever decide to try counterbalance. Or if you have arguments in favor of countermagic that makes me switch.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by dionykos
it`s a personal preference of mine. I don`t really like Countertop because it`s quite slow and a single Counterbalance is quite useless. It also slows down the game speed and you have to think a lot which is a bit exhausting in bigger/longer events. The 2/2/2 split between Snare/Pierce/CS gives us a lot of flexibility and speed, because we can interact on T1+T2 no matter if were OtD or OtP. Especially Snare is very powerful right now because of SFM, YP, SCM, Balance etc...
In my list with so many reactive Counterspells I want to hold up mana for the opponents turn, so in a counter heavy build like mine I think DTT is much smoother than TC and I really love the fact that you always get what you want he most. Itīs really not rare that I make DTT into TNN + SFM which is just super sweet and strong. TC gives you sometimes just land, Pierce, Ponder or whatever...
By the way here is my last finish. After going 5:0 on the last turney it did not worked this fine again for me.
Round 1 ANT (Good Player): Lost 0:2 (I had a counter heavy hand in both games but he had always probe, therapy, Duress and my SFM into BS was just to slow, his Ad Nauseam in game 2 with 10 life showed him in the top 4 cards -> Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor :laugh: )
Round 2 Elves: Won 2:0
Round 3 MUD: Lost 0:2 (No chance against this deck! I had no great hand in both games with a mulligan but without Wasteland, Daze or a fast clock no way it`s very rough, even a Sword on his Metalworker and a CS on his grim monolith was not enough to stop his machines from killing me, he had very good and fast hands)
Round 4 UWb Miracles: Won 2:1
Round 5 RW Rogue: Won 2:0
So 3:2 :rolleyes:
The deck felt great again but against unfair decks like Storm you miss the early pressure with creatures like Delver or Goyf + Disruption. Only Counterspells & Hatebears will not win the game, but well that`s not UWR Delver :wink:
I think MUD or Stompy decks in general are a very bad MU for us because we have no way to disrupt they`re fragile manabase and always have to keep up mana for CS, Daze would have been great here....But well it`s no UWR Delver again :laugh:
Maybe I will give UWR Delver a chance for the upcoming turney...We will see...The deck is just super solid against any fair deck...
Greetings
You are right about DTT, it does make sense with your countermagic package.
I had a similar experience so far with this deck against 'heavy rogue' decks (MUD, Lands, NicFit, etc). Not having wasteland or planeswalkers hurts.
The build with countertop is designed to beat UR and combo, but all the MUs with curves that can escape from the countertop lock seem very difficult. It is heavily metagamed for combo (storm/elves) and UR. Probably too much for legacy...
Why do you believe countertop to be bad here yet the duo occupies 8 slots in miracles, a competing and more successful uwx control build?
I love DTT in stoneforge lists, and I think it's going to become a staple.
I haven't tried the countertop package in the stoneblade lists; this is just my impression from looking at the list and some limited observations from others playing that build...Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Miracles is not just about establishing countertop, but they also use SDT to set up their namesake miracles, Terminus and Entreat. So it's really more of a 12-13 card package.
Miracles is also often pretty unfavored when they can't land a Top (which is why I almost always Force a turn 1 top if I can).
At any rate, I think the comparison is wrong, because in the case of Miracles, they are not really removing counter magic to make room for countertop; they're not playing the stoneblade suite (not usually, at least), not playing as many delve spells (or any in some cases), etc.
So, for me the question is- is the countertop package better or worse than the counter magic it's replacing?
In my opinion it's worse:
- Top itself is good, of course, but when it's not being used to set up sweepers and finishers, and it won't be used to find as many answers when they're needed, it loses value.
- Counterbalance by itself is not consistent enough to rely on. Nobody would be playing counterbalance if not for top.
- The point of setting up countertop is to keep your opponent from doing anything while you draw into something to close the game out, which reduces the value of/need for your Treasure Cruises and/or Digs through Time.
The expand on the last point, the great value that Cruise/Dig provides is restocking your hand. In the case of UR Delver and the more aggressive Pyroblade builds, you're restocking from removal/burn/threats. In the case of the more controllish builds of Stoneblade you're generally restocking from counters and removal and/or looking for specific answers/finishers (this is why I personally prefer Dig Through Time in that build, which is what I play). In this deck, Countertop is only about trying to lock them out of the stack, not sweep the board or end the game. Furthermore, Countertop is not filling your graveyard like actually casting counter magic would, so even when it's established, it's harder to actually Cruise/Dig.
In short, I'd rather just have more direct and consistent counters early on and then be able to restock my hand and counter/remove more things later than to risk being stuck with one half of the countertop package (or establishing the pair but facing an opponent you can't lock out with it) and increasing the chance of having a delve card in hand that I can't cast.
I am an on-again off-again Miracles player since it first became a thing, and I am currently playing a 4-ponder Einherjer build. I am doing quite well with it in my current local/regional meta. I like the fact that you can play 1/2 E. Tutor to much success, also allowing for a lower number of CB in a list. That makes your RIPs and Grafdigger's Cage better in the match-ups you bring them in. Allows for Top to be exceptional as an enchantment/artifact Demonic Tutor. I love the combo in stoneforge. It may not be as good here as in miracles, but it's definitely a reasonable consideration.
I actually picked up this list with Countertop because it is a lock in the MU I was targetting, this is how I wanted to close games in a storm/UR meta. As I said this is really a meta call, and it works well against these decks. The problem is that against everything that can play around Countertop, we are rather weak, because we have no pressure, no planeswalker and no big finisher like entreat. This is probably why Bob Huang has Delver in the main, even if he swapped it a lot for Countertop post-board.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
Hey guys,
I wanted to share my thoughts and my current list with you, having a bit of discussing in here :smile:
Maindeck: 60 Karten
10 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
30 Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte
20 Lands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard: 15 Cards
2 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Blood Moon
2 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
I think the deck is still in a good position. The TC ban was not that of a thing for me because I play DTT over TC in this list anyway. With the rise of TA and the loss of UR/UWR Delver I think Counterbalance is not really worth it, maybe in the SB against Storm or something but not in the 60.
I cutted the 1off Karakas and replaced it with a 3rd Island because I want to play 2 Blood Moon in the SB which I think will be great again.
With less massremoval like Pyroclasm, Electrickery etc. I think Elves or DnT will be get played more in the next time, so the 7 removal spells are good, against TA too.
Spell Snare lost one of his main targets (YP) but the new enemy will be Counterbalance, Hymn to Tourach & Tarmogoyf and even DnT has a lot of targets like SFM, Thalia etc. so I will still play 2. Same for Spell Pierce.
Maybe it`s right to talk about Jace again but for the moment I really like 3 DTT as my card draw machine, maybe a Sword of Feast & Famine will be good again because of TA & Elves...Not sold on it...
Greetings
Maindeck: 60 Karten
10 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
30 Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
3 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte
20 Lands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
Sideboard: 15 Cards
3 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyroblast
1 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Electrickery
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Council's Judgment
I ran a very similar list today at a small event. I changed the 2nd counter spell into a preordain and the 4th True-Name into the first Vendilion Clique. The list performed quite well. My main complain was the spell-snares which were really sub-par. They will be the first things I plan on cutting. I think Dig through time is the real deal in these stone blades lists. And with Treasure Cruise gone it only strengths this deck.
The sideboard was sorta throw together with not much thought. I like the Meddling Mages, Containment Priests, and Fluster storms. Those seem pretty standard. Electrickery still seems good enough in a lot of match ups but 2 might be obsessive. The Surgical, Supreme Verdict, and Council's Judgment could all be changed and I'm not quite sure what seems good. I may throw another equipment in the sideboard.
Shardless BUG 2-0 (I still think this is a bad matchup)
RUG Delver 2-0
Death and Taxes 1-1-1
Shardless BUG 2-1
MUD Split
I ended up top 2ing and chopping. I feel confident that spell snare is still not good enough, and it wasn't good enough before Khans. I may add that second counter spell back in or just another preordain. Having 9 Cantrips was amazing and the more I play legacy, the more I think it is correct to max out on them.
Hey all. I'm building slowly building into UWr blade control right now and I could use some advice. Keep in mind I'm a legacy newbie.
Right now I'm looking at this:
Code:--10 Creatures--
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
Code:--26 Spells--
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning bolt
Code:--4 Artifacts/Planeswalkers--
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
Here are my questions:Code:--20 Lands--
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Wasteland
1) What are the most cost efficient upgrades I could make right now? 4th tundra? 3rd volcanic island? Karakas? Third TNN?
2) I have the wastelands in there because I saw them in earlier versions of the deck, but it seems that recent versions eschew it entirely. Should I cut them? Can anyone explain why wasteland would not be used? Perhaps I can learn something here.
Thanks in advance!
Personally, i'd look to Rudy and Jarvis's lists as they both made successful finishes even prior to cruise's banning. I'm more partial to Rudy's list as I like the flexibility of lightning bolt, (also could be because he'd been on death blade for song long and that happens to be my favorite deck to play). The things I'm debating are dropping the pyroblasts and possibly subbing the mountain for a plateau.. although with wasteland retuning it may not be the best idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexx1523
Ran the following list to some success last weekend at a small local tournament (15 players). Likely running it back (with slight modifications) this coming weekend at a slightly bigger local tournament.
Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage
Spells(30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire // Ice
1 Sudden Demise
1 Council's Judgment
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Dig Through Time
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Jace, the Mind Scupltor
Lands(21)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
SB:
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Meddling Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Wear // Tear
2 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
1 Supreme Verdict
Games:
Round 1 (2-0) against Miracles: I knew my opponent was on Miracles, so saved up to fight over Counterbalance. Game 1 he was able to resolve Top and Counterbalance, but tapped out in the process. When I untapped, I slammed Jace, and he didn't have a 4 on top. Jace got there. Sideboard:
-4 Swords
-1 Plains
-1 Jitte
-1 Sudden Demise
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Wear // Tear
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Game 2 proceeded similarly to Game 1. I fought over his CB, and he resolved it. He was relatively hellbent after this, so I baited a Top flip with a Spell Pierce, and then slammed Jace the following turn and fate-sealed away the Top. At that point his hand was awful, and Jace got there.
Round 2 (2-0) against Shardless BUG: Game 1, he was able to grind me down with Shardless + Ancestral, but DTT was able to bring me back into the game. Eventually I resolved Batterskull, and he Decayed the Germ token. I then followed with TNN. He bricked on Liliana for several turns, so TNN equipped with Batterskull was too much. Sideboard:
-4 Force of Will
-1 Plains
-1 Sudden Demise
-1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Relic
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Supreme Verdict
In Game 1, I intentionally avoided fetching basics, so Game 2 he didn't play around my turn 3 Blood Moon when he was tapped out. Although I won 2-0, I do not think I am favored in this matchup. DTT was fantastic here, but they have plenty of answers for TNN and can out card advantage me.
Round 3 (2-1) against Burn: Game 1, he got me down to 1, and anything would've killed me, but he was hellbent and I resolved Batterskull. Sideboard:
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 DTT
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Wear // Tear
Game 2, Eidolon lock got there. Game 3, he kept a slow hand with a turn 1 Relic and a turn 3 Sulfuric Vortex, which resolved. I proceeded to race with a Germ, Vendilion Clique equipped with Jitte and 2 SFM. He chump blocked a little too early with his Eidolon and never popped his Relic, which allowed me to win the race.
Round 4 (ID, but I won 2-0 when we played it out) against Burn. Both games I won with Stoneforge protected by FoW + blue card.
Overall, I was very happy with the deck, though I definitely drew well. As for tweaks, the Fire // Ice was probably too cute, and should just be another Lightning Bolt. I never actually cast the Sudden Demise, but it's done a lot of work in the past for me (and there was plenty of GW/x and Merfolk in the room). I'm expecting more Deathrite Shamans and Delvers this coming weekend, which makes me less inclined to play Snapcaster Mage. Right now, I'd change the list to MB: -1 Snapcaster, -1 Fire // Ice, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Vendilion Clique; SB: -1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Red Elemental Blast. I definitely still like UWr a lot right now, and oscillate between this sort of build, Delver, and Cueno's list (you play Preordains, lots of counterspells, and 4 DTT). Not sure if I feel like out-Delvering people this weekend, and I have no clue how Cueno's list beats Burn or Storm (both of which will be present). One note, unless you have a lot of Griselbrands in your area, I don't really like Karakas very much, even with multiple Cliques. The card is just too awkward since Plains is the worst card in your deck unless you are playing against Wasteland, and Karakas doesn't help you there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
I'm running a super similar list. I've been tempted to run the first Jace, the MindSculptor in the main so it is good to know it has been good for you. Dig Through Time is definitely here to stay in these lists. My Shardless BUG matchup is definitely not great but it is possible to get there through play skill. Pyro's are descent at fighting there card engines which makes post board match ups winnable. You just have to find the right window to get a True Name online. I felt like I liked Snapcaster Mage personally. I'm still running only two but it sorta feels like a its own DTT. I think I'll try a Jace in the Main. I also think one Pyro in the main deck might still be fine. Blue is still everywhere.
I was down to 1 Jace pre banning, but now I am really liking 2. Game 1 against Miracles, they don't have a particularly effective way of dealing with the card (Pyroblast main isn't a thing locally for me anymore), and you can often resolve it through CB. I never drew it against Shardless, but obviously it's fantastic in that matchup so long as you are able to keep the board stable.
I'm making the switch from playing combo to playing fair and was intrigued by UW Blade control.
The list I've been building is somewhat old and only plays 2 Tundras and 1 Underground Sea (for flashing back Lingering Souls) which is what I'm looking for because I'd prefer to play a lot of basics... and Back To Basics.
Is it still possible to run pure Blue White, or is that style of play outdated? I've noticed most blade lists lately have been UWR or Death Blade.
In my opinion uw is just super strong right now again.
I see all the list with a red splash for maybe 2 bolts und 2 pyroblasts. I don't understand why people do this.
I would play uw with factory. Then u have 80% vs miracles and they are strong against many other decks too.
Back to Basics is also a great card right now
It's probably providing some reach in certain matchups and there's also probably some sideboard cards, somebody mentioned Blood Moon is possible out of the board but I have never seen that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabelmeister
I love Back to Basics and with the greedy mana bases in my local meta I feel like it could really be a beating, especially for those BUG players.
This is the list I am running right now:
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
5 Island
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Back to Basics
1 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ponder
3 Supreme Verdict
the red splash is partially a relic of the TC format, where lightning bolt and pyroblast were where you wanted to be. a third color is almost free in these sort of decks, and i think the access to red or black post-board helps a lot more in blue match ups than something like mishra's factory.
edit: i've also never been a fan of detention sphere over oblivion ring, banishing light, or council's judgment. yes, it pitches to force of will, but it's best against decks that have access to pyroblast. additionally, the amount of times you get more than one permanent with it is extremely low.