[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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Originally Posted by Varal

Who cares about English when you can have Italian for cheaper?

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And people yelled at me for not going for the Italian Moat. Lmao.

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Originally Posted by Varal

Who cares about English when you can have Italian for cheaper?

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Might as well use proxies then

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Originally Posted by raudo

English Nether Void, the Abyss, Library of Alexandria etc have almost doubled their value in two years. Should one buy them now or forget the whole thing..? In two years they will be almost impossible to get if this continues.

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Just traded my Nether Voids away for cards I actually know I'm going to play. I'm not planning on playing Vintage any time soon, do easy decision if you ask me: Vintage or no Vintage?

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Originally Posted by Varal

Who cares about English when you can have Italian for cheaper?

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English, old-boarders preferable, above all else. No foil either. I don't care about the price-difference, I like the nostalgia.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

English, old-boarders preferable, above all else. No foil either. I don't care about the price-difference, I like the nostalgia.

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Okey. That's why in Europe some people prefer Italian, in ~1994-95 not many people here had access to English cards.

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Originally Posted by raudo

English Nether Void, the Abyss, Library of Alexandria etc have almost doubled their value in two years. Should one buy them now or forget the whole thing..? In two years they will be almost impossible to get if this continues.

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https://s15.postimg.org/dushsvb2z/extrapolating.png

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joy...11/04/tldr.jpg

One would expect that between announcing the reprint of Port and the mass sellout that is currently going on due to treasure chests + redemption time cut would dent the price of Port on MTGO.

But fuck it, the price went up again. :eyebrow:

I read the first two paragraphs and finally realized that the post had actually nothing to do with prices or reprints

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt

https://s15.postimg.org/dushsvb2z/extrapolating.png

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Is anybody else perturbed that her wedding dress is apparently sheer?

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Originally Posted by Meekrab

Is anybody else perturbed that her wedding dress is apparently sheer?

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I think that's a veil. And besides, her nudity's got nothing on her husband's.

New MTG sets from Return to Ravnica forward are being printed to Oblivion. I think MTG cards are headed towards the same end as 90's baseball cards.

Prices are high on old cards, which spawned this thread. Newer cards, however, will be worthless long term once people figure out that the print runs are too high.

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Originally Posted by dragonwisdom

New MTG sets from Return to Ravnica forward are being printed to Oblivion. I think MTG cards are headed towards the same end as 90's baseball cards.

Prices are high on old cards, which spawned this thread. Newer cards, however, will be worthless long term once people figure out that the print runs are too high.

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Most sets have a handful of cards at best that can pay for the booster, and that's most sets since the beginning of the game. A couple months ago I went through set by set on TCGPlayer and sorted each by price, cutting out anything under $5 or so, and was kinda astonished.

That said, print runs must be astronomical starting with RtR or so. You can get RtR boxes for less than Standard-legal boxes, and RtR is relatively loaded in terms of value; Shock Lands, the "cannot be countered" cycle, Deathrite Shaman, Cyclonic Rift, etc.

I think the "Expedition" series of really expensive reprints at random in every box could do an awful lot to remedy the situation.

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Originally Posted by Begle1

Most sets have a handful of cards at best that can pay for the booster, and that's most sets since the beginning of the game. A couple months ago I went through set by set on TCGPlayer and sorted each by price, cutting out anything under $5 or so, and was kinda astonished.

That said, print runs must be astronomical starting with RtR or so. You can get RtR boxes for less than Standard-legal boxes, and RtR is relatively loaded in terms of value; Shock Lands, the "cannot be countered" cycle, Deathrite Shaman, Cyclonic Rift, etc.

I think the "Expedition" series of really expensive reprints at random in every box could do an awful lot to remedy the situation.

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I tried searching with a random set like apocalypse. Vindicate dropped like a rock in price after the eternal masters reprint. Phyrexian Arena keeps getting reprinted. Whenever, I hear a player say "reprints don't hurt prices", I know they have no idea about supply and demand or they are just trying to be cute. Wotc is currently reprinting chase cards like crazy. Soon most old sets with no reserve list cards will be worthless. The reserve list is the only thing that collectors can have confidence in. (I do think the reserve list is bad for Legacy though) and expeditions are Wotc's attempt to create value out of scarceness rather than playability. And by this I mean, you can collect a masterpiece sol ring as a collector, but buy one as a player for 2.00. The concept of a rookie card does not really exits in MTG outside of Alpha/Beta. Expeditions and Master pieces is Wotc version of it, I think.

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Originally Posted by dragonwisdom

I tried searching with a random set like apocalypse. Vindicate dropped like a rock in price after the eternal masters reprint. Phyrexian Arena keeps getting reprinted. Whenever, I hear a player say "reprints don't hurt prices", I know they have no idea about supply and demand or they are just trying to be cute. Wotc is currently reprinting chase cards like crazy. Soon most old sets with no reserve list cards will be worthless. The reserve list is the only thing that collectors can have confidence in. (I do think the reserve list is bad for Legacy though) and expeditions are Wotc's attempt to create value out of scarceness rather than playability. And by this I mean, you can collect a masterpiece sol ring as a collector, but buy one as a player for 2.00. The concept of a rookie card does not really exits in MTG outside of Alpha/Beta. Expeditions and Master pieces is Wotc version of it, I think.

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Reprints don't hurt prices [of cards that are actually rare].

See ABU/AN/AQ.

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Originally Posted by Mr.C

Reprints don't hurt prices [of cards that are actually rare].

See ABU/AN/AQ.

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reprinting something makes it less rare... you make no sense. If you reprint something enough times it will hurt prices.

The effect that reprints have on the prices of the original versions depends on several factors. For example.

If Wizards reprinted dual lands in large numbers, revised well played duals would take a big hit, alpha duals would probably not be similarly affected.

If Wizards reprinted Goyf in a standard legal set, the value would plummet.

I think there are a couple of factors. Original printings (I'm not aware of any cards that had their first printing be white border outside of P3K), original frames and art tend to be others. Reprints certainly do affect prices though, especially with modern cards.

I think the rookie card comparison is apt for this discussion. ABU/AN/AQ/L versions are always going to be top dollar merchandise; limited in print run, exponential degradation of condition, an ever expanding player base. We can trade any beat revised dual for a late 50's Mickey Mantle card, but you'd be pressed to get a NM rookie card from '52 for anything less than a 9.5 mint Beta Lotus and a reach around. Old school cards will stay hot. Anything after Urzas block will depreciate given enough time.

Who knows what this game will look like in ten years so maybe those mma goyfs will be the new rookie cards because the FS copies are all locked up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

And people yelled at me for not going for the Italian Moat. Lmao.

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honestly, the quality of the italian printings is far nicer. i don't even mind the teratology that is "STAPpata".

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Originally Posted by apple713

reprinting something makes it less rare... you make no sense. If you reprint something enough times it will hurt prices.

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Really.

Birds of Paradise just got *another* reprint. Alpha and Beta BoP (what I meant by really rare) continue to appreciate in spite of that.

What Mr. C said. If they reprinted duals tomorrow it wouldn't be a big deal for ABU collectors

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

What Mr. C said. If they reprinted duals tomorrow it wouldn't be a big deal for ABU collectors

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But most people own Revised duals and those would depreciate significantly. I'm sure many would be pissed seeing the manabase they just spent $1500 on become $700 overnight.

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

But most people own Revised duals and those would depreciate significantly. I'm sure many would be pissed seeing the manabase they just spent $1500 on become $700 overnight.

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Before I owned any duals I was wishing for reprints. Now that I've bought quite a few over the last few months I'm glad for it, so that the hundreds of dollars I invested won't tank overnight. There's no way in hell I would've spent that kind of money if a reprint was a risk (which is why I still don't own Tarmogoyfs and don't know if I ever will).

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

But most people own Revised duals and those would depreciate significantly. I'm sure many would be pissed seeing the manabase they just spent $1500 on become $700 overnight.

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I wouldn't because then I can buy even more

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Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

But most people own Revised duals and those would depreciate significantly. I'm sure many would be pissed seeing the manabase they just spent $1500 on become $700 overnight.

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I didn't hear people crying when Berserk and SnT got reprinted recently. Or Onslaught Fetches. On the contrary.

Edit: If you're worried about losing money when buying pieces of cardboard, you shouldn't buy pieces of cardboard.

I own Duals and care less about what they are worth and more about getting to use them.

As someone who bought duals for basically nothing (or traded rubbish for them), sold them for ~30 euro when I got out of the game and then had to rebuy them for ~80/100 when I came back to the game I still have no regrets about it and would welcome reprints. It would mean that my friends who can't afford to play Legacy could play Legacy. Since I started playing in '94 my Revised cards have always been worth less than their A/B/U conterparts and if you want to be a collector youre probably aiming to go higher than Revised anyway. The Khans fetches have *infinitely* better art than Onslaught imo and, while not the same because of reserve list obviously, I know a lot of players who would happily switch duals from Revised if the art simply looked better. Not me, admittedly, but lots would like to. And hey, if you're into drafting maybe you'll open that new hot planeswalker in foil someday and get yourself a battered old Bayou with it instead :tongue:

The reserve list is the only thing keeping Wotc from printing everyone's collection of cards to oblivion. Every time they reprint a chase rare/mythic they are just stealing from you.
The only safe cards to put money in are cards on the reserved list. It looks like Oath of Druids will be reprinted in commander. So if you spent 8-9 dollars on it back in the day, I can promise you it will be worth much less by this time next year. Maybe 2-3 dollars. They just stole 3-4 dollars from you. (times 4 in many cases). See how that works.

As far as playing Legacy is concerned, people can just grab a sharpie and a few basic lands, buy the cheap cards and then sleeve them up. And what does "afford" mean. I have heard many people say, if only legacy was 300 dollars, I would play every week. But where do you stop. The next person will say 300 is too much. Vintage is for the oldest player in the 40's and 50's, Legacy is for older players usually in their 30's. Modern is for players in their early 20's or post college. Standard is for newer players or teens/young adults. There are many whining standard players who wish they could play the older formats, but they need to pay their dues. It's a collectible card game. And Magic is a really cheap game to play. One can go on Ebay and buy thousands of cards for like 30 bucks and play in school, on the kitchen table and with friends. There are too many entitled people in this world.

I am sure I pissed off many people with this post.

I admittedly only own like 8 non blue duals, but I also have various other reserve list cards and I would be ecstatic to see all of these cards reprinted to a much more affordable price. Tonight I went to one of my local stores that has had a struggling legacy scene for a few months. Tonight I came in. Bought sleeves. Built a deck. Sat there. 7:30 hit, that's when the tournament was set to begin, there was no-one else there. So I got up and quietly left on what was probably the last time that store will run a weekly legacy event. Now luckily the area has another site that consistently gets 10-20 weekly if not more, but it reminded me of another time before Team Tusk revived legacy in Atlanta when after years and years of legacy Super Games died. I remember the sadness I felt on that final night when it was just a few people there and they said they just couldn't do it anymore. I just want to see a thriving legacy scene. It is admittedly nice to know that I won't lose money on my cradle, or my sanctums, but it would be even nicer to have people to play these awesome cards with.

Solution to the reserved list:

Wotc could have a trade-in policy for reserve list cards:

Legacy player trades in Underground Sea
Wotc gives player 8 copies of Underground Sea with security features and then destroys the original.

winners -
Collectors - who wanted to keep their original cards since their would be less cards in circulation
long-time players who are rewarded for being long time players and now have more underground seas to trade/sell. They get to directly benefit from holding cards. Wizards does not
get to make money/steal from their collections

all legacy players - who now have cheaper dual lands to buy from redeemed/traded in sets
And when the supply of Underground Seas gets low, they can trade in those trade-in dual lands for new trade ins that have a new logo.

Wizards - They also win in that they can charge a fee for the trade-in program

losers - counterfeiters.

I suspect that this solution would be much better than a compromise since the collectors and "investors" would benefit. Does this abolish the reserve list? No. Does it get around it? Yes.
Now some will argue that this will be expensive. My rebuttal is that they already do this with redemption sets on MTGO and they could also charge a fee. Win Win Win for everyone.

Thanks for reading.

Counterfeiters will never lose

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Originally Posted by dragonwisdom

The reserve list is the only thing keeping Wotc from printing everyone's collection of cards to oblivion. Every time they reprint a chase rare/mythic they are just stealing from you.
The only safe cards to put money in are cards on the reserved list. It looks like Oath of Druids will be reprinted in commander. So if you spent 8-9 dollars on it back in the day, I can promise you it will be worth much less by this time next year. Maybe 2-3 dollars. They just stole 3-4 dollars from you. (times 4 in many cases). See how that works.

As far as playing Legacy is concerned, people can just grab a sharpie and a few basic lands, buy the cheap cards and then sleeve them up. And what does "afford" mean. I have heard many people say, if only legacy was 300 dollars, I would play every week. But where do you stop. The next person will say 300 is too much. Vintage is for the oldest player in the 40's and 50's, Legacy is for older players usually in their 30's. Modern is for players in their early 20's or post college. Standard is for newer players or teens/young adults. There are many whining standard players who wish they could play the older formats, but they need to pay their dues. It's a collectible card game. And Magic is a really cheap game to play. One can go on Ebay and buy thousands of cards for like 30 bucks and play in school, on the kitchen table and with friends. There are too many entitled people in this world.

I am sure I pissed off many people with this post.

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"Fuck you, I got mine."

Gotcha.

From the research I've done, 99% counterfeits are coming sooner rather than later. The market is just too attractive.

Ya'll will wish that the Reserve List were repealed when that happens.

Edit: To elaborate, the printing technology and layering are already there. The only thing missing, really, is the finish material (i.e. what makes the cards glossy or shiny); that's the proprietary information.

The only solution, in my eyes, to the Reserved List is to keep it to a minimum, and keep it to stuff Wizards would never reprint otherwise. P9, Time Vault, LoA, BoB, Shop. Maybe throw in Shahrazad and Chaos Orb in there too.

Happy collectors, happy players.

Abolishing the reserve list won't stop counterfeiting. It would be naive to think so. They will just counterfeit something else. Any card that sell for 5 dollars and up is a candidate to be counterfeited. It only costs them pennies to mass produce cards.

Look at the set Mirage. Because of excessive reprinting
only Lion's eye Diamond is worth more than 10 dollars. This same phenomenon is seen through most earlier sets. The Legacy players at least have the protection of the reserved list. Modern players are screwed. Wotc is going to reprint your collection to oblivion and most of you won't see it until it is too late. Look at the people who collected baseball cards in the 90's. They spent hundred, some people thousands of dollars and the company got greedy and now you can use those baseball cards as toilet paper. You would be lucky if you could get 20 bucks for 5000 cards. Why are all the people today smarter than they were in the 90's.

Why does every one pay 100 dollars for a booster box or even 16 dollars to draft cards. I mean if the cards did not have some value then, honestly Wizards could just print complete sets like the game Dominion.

Counterfeiters will destroy magic and I will not argue with you on that point. And if they had a trade in program before the counterfeits were perfect, then that would curtail but not stop counterfeiting.

With all this reprinting, booster boxes should be less than 100 dollars, a lot less, maybe 40 bucks tops.


The reserve list and being mad at it, just causes players and collectors alike to losing sight of the ball. After seeing the print runs of RTR and all new product that they are jamming down our throat, I can see the forest for the trees. Collections are going down. Only alpha, beta, AA, Anq and perhaps legends will survive.

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Originally Posted by dragonwisdom

Why does every one pay 100 dollars for a booster box or even 16 dollars to draft cards.

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Why are people paying $10 or whatever $ for a ticket to watch a movie?

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Originally Posted by jattra

Why are people paying $10 or whatever $ for a ticket to watch a movie?

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Because the movie isn't yet available as illegal download in decent quality and you want to see it asap?

Remember how some of us keep saying: "Keep your shirt on, they'll reprint Reserve List effects without violating the List itself, it's all good. Calm down." ?

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Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss

http://227rsi2stdr53e3wto2skssd7xe.w...ain_EN_HRR.png

Now we're talking!

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Now, can we please stop complaining about it and realize the problem is, in fact, being fixed?

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Because the movie isn't yet available as illegal download in decent quality and you want to see it asap?

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I actually enjoy going to the movies with my wife. I guess it depends on what you enjoy doing.

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Originally Posted by MaximumC

Now, can we please stop complaining about it and realize the problem is, in fact, being fixed?

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Wake me up when we get Magus of the Recall please. :tongue:

(By my estimate, that should be Commander 2020 or so.)

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Originally Posted by H

(By my estimate, that should be Commander 2020 or so.)

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Is that the one with Barbara Walters?

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Is that the one with Barbara Walters?

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Well, it certainly should be.