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Good to hear. I have been running +1 Mine and the green Dual in the board, but I want more sideboard space. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle7
Wow, that sounds even worse than my Chancellor of the Tangle / Hypergenesis deck. And that was an absolute nightmare. For its pilot. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle7
They were good against the 1 Delver deck I played against. 3 was definitely too many, but I also played a below average amount of Delver decks. I could see cutting them all together if Cabal Rituals are played, but I still like the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastikor
I might be going to a Lotus event on Saturday. If I do, I'll likely be trying the Cabal Ritual over Empty list. It's been about two months since I've played TES in a legacy event, I just wish some of these artists I've shipped to would send stuff back already. Seriously, Pete Venters has had my Tendrils, Grapeshot, Massacre and Pithing Needles since mid-September (I've made contact with him and he says they're in a pile on his table waiting to be signed).
ANT is much more linear. TES is a little less so and the window feels smaller a lot of the time. in my experience playing both my mistakes were less punished with ANT than TESQuote:
Originally Posted by oracL3
also better lucky than good plays a role with density of population
I normally try to stay out of ANT vs TES discussions at this point since there's very little to gain. However, criticisms of decks based on how forgiving they are of your play mistakes doesn't really fly for me. You want to win events? Play tight, don't mess up. Regardless of which deck one chooses.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasDowd
I just hope they're not sitting loose on his desk and warping like crazy. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I think your right about the chain, but I was just considering it as a stall/other route to natural storm. I have a lot of prison in my meta (hence the SB spree) so I think a lot of my opponents learned that chalice on 2 decimates me. So I like having a MD answer after Ad N. It's a meta call, but a bad one.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
As far as the "play style" reasoning goes I think you're right in theory, but I think either I didn't explain it clearly or you misunderstood. What I was getting at was, it depends how comfortable you are as a gambler. There are a lot of times when I'll have a decision where there's a higher probability of winning than losing in making a decision, but I have the alternative option of sculpting to hope things change. I personally like to go for it even if I think I only have a small percent advantage rather than wait. I think mox is better at this earlier rush strategy and therefor it fits my style better, since there will always be unknowns and likelihoods are not always clear.
I remember some number of months/years back we tried a 2 cabal ritual / 2 chrome mox split.
I also remember people not being too excited with the change. What's different this time around?
No, I think I understand what you're saying, I just think your reasoning is imperfect. For example, in the "go for it or don't" scenario you described, there is a statistically and objectively correct choice, it's just that to reach that answer you need immaculate understanding of the game state, or you'd need to play out the exact scenario over and over hundreds/thousands of times. A good gambler actually takes on as little variance as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
As far as Cabal Ritual vs. Chrome Mox, it's not as though Cabal is terrible at accelerating you in the early game, unthreshed, it still boosts mana by 1 and that is relevant. It's just a good bonus for PiF/tutor chains and I honestly think it's contributing more than a MD EtW. Removing a Chrome Mox is the next step as Rituals have to travel in at least pairs and the marginal value of the 2nd Rit is likely higher than the 3rd Mox.
re: what's different this time around. the difference here is that this time EtW was removed instead of Duress, and Bolts are appearing so much more in the format right now that divesting from Ad Nauseam while reducing variance by not having a 4 cmc card floating around in the main is a big deal.
The difference is within the slots we replaced for the Cabals paired with the fact that we reduced the amount of rainbow lands in favor of more fetches which feed thresh. A significant problem with the previous list also was the self-inflicted damage, which we now removed the EtW for adressing the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by d0nkey
How to approach the Miracles matchup? I'm playing the Cabal Rit list as of now, -1 pithing +1 decay. Going to be at an SCG soon, looking for some prep help.
Honestly, Miracles is a tough match. I played a black version tonight that ran Nethervoid and Etutor, we drew because of his lack of wins. Both games he first turn Etutors for cannonist. :( Here are the tips that work for me:Quote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
1. I've found that a natural storm chain is what usually gets me there after keeping a hand with Decay. Otherwise you want something super busted with duress effects to go off before CB hits.
2. Stay away from Empty if you can, but I have won with it in dire circumstances. I always side out Empty and always side in a 10drills. Throw Empty under Mox if you get stuck with it. I say this because Terminus, Supreme Verdict, Detention Sphere, Engineered Explosives, and possibly even energy field can ruin your day and even if you can flash back a Therapy they prolly have it lurking somewhere under top.
3. On the play Probe needle is really good against them. A lot of times I play against players that keep 1 landers just because they see a Force and something else good with Brainstorm. So you can name a fetch sometimes, it's only a small value added but it's value. Also see 4.
4. If they don't have Counter Balance on deck try to chain/decay their top at End of Turn so they can't float a counter, then punch through the next turn with hand disruption. This is why I personally like Needle better than Xantid, since it hits your other shit matches and still shuts down top. Needle does the same to 10Post when they board in 14 SB cards and try to hide them with top.
5. If they're not playing the RiP version, building a Past in Flames plan is good since you can flash it back after a counter. See below.
6. Bait with extra tutors. If infernal actually resolves get a ritual/rite to form a PiF plan. If wish resolves you can just grab the PiF to save you 2 mana on the next turn.
7. Siding out a copy of Thearapy isn't a bad plan as a wish target. I do it. Many times, you just need more answers.
8. On the play hand disruption is sweet, but if you're not on the play you want to save it if you have the decay.
9. I've won a game by using a Dark rit -> Ad N Eot, let it get countered, go to my turn Break Out.
10. Slow hands aren't necessarily bad! Yes their deck gets stronger as time goes by, but you also get to sculpt and draw.
11. I always like to keep in one copy of Mox, because if you can get a very early Ad N I want to be absolutely sure I can combo out. That said mox sux here otherwise because as the game goes on it gets worse. Therefore, I only have one in the deck to lessen my odds of seeing it naturally.
12. Some people swear by Carpet of Flowers, I'd like to have 1/2 but I just can't find space. Also, I have a standard for all of my SB cards where I ask myself, If things are looking grim and I think I'm going to lose, will starting with X or top-decking it change that? I like carpet, I really do, I just can't fit it compared to other cards.
13. Remember that UW is a deck all about having the right answers at the right time, think about what they don't have, and what will be hard to get. If you can try to go off on the first turn, may the odds be ever in your favor.
That said here is my board plan:
-3 Ponder
-2 Chrome Mox
-1 Cabal Therapy
-1 Empty the Warrens
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Needle
+1 Chain
+1 Tendrils of Agony
Yeah, I know chain isn't the best, but seeing top is scary. See #4. Chain does hit Leyline, meddling, detention Sphere on artifacts/EE, and cannonist, ect, ect which I have seen UW bring in. That said, I'm thinking about stopping the chain shenanigans to put back a ponder since sculpting is sweet and I'll just bring the chain in if I see anything I just mentioned.
I'm having a tough time with this match-up too, so I'm open to criticism.
You can even board the Xantids in Addition to bitch-test your opponents remaining removal suit. EtW isn't necessarily bad unless you play against T1 SDT or the Ponder variants of Miracles; it's a fact that they cut within their creature removal to make space for SB cards and you can catch them with EtW. Depends on what your opponents hand looks like.
I there there's a real lack of understanding the sideboarding concepts on your side.
Chain of Vapor is awful here. If they have a counterbalance they'll likely counter it and if you target top, you're down a card and they're plus one. Not great.
I don't like siding out a protection spell in a control based match-up without bringing in other protection which is why it was acceptable when siding in Xantids. It's about remaining neutral while having higher impact cards.
These things said, I would likely side like this:
-2 Chrome Mox
-2 Cabal Ritual
-2 Ponder
-1 Cabal Therapy
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Xantid Swarm
This isn't a match-up where we need the additional mana from Chrome Mox and Cabal Ritual will likely be hurt by them bringing in Rest in Peace. It's acceptable to side out a Therapy if bringing in other protection as it allows for Wish to essentially become a protection spell. Ponder is a flex spot. I don't believe you need to bring in Tendrils, I haven't seen too many Meddling Mages out of Miracles. If they do have them, we have Abrupt Decay. If you decide to bring in Tendrils, I'd likely side out another Ponder.
Found a neat gold uncommon in my random box yesterday evening. Got to test this as a sideboard tech.
So I'm happy to hear of more people getting onboard with Cabal Ritual. I've been running 2x of the CR for a few months now, including at the GP and I've had success with it. I have not cut EtW from the main, rather I opt to go -1 discard (6 total) - 1 land (12 main, sb tropical...I know the arguments for Bayou, just haven't found the time to test them myself yet) to run the 2 rituals.
I frequently cut EtW if I win with it game 1 because all of their hate for 1/1s comes in. I have won more game 1s than I can count on the back of EtW and I would not cut it from our 60 at this time. Moving it to the board games 2&3 is reasonable, but I love it game 1, especially with 4 therapies in the main.
Another point to consider is that randoms will see your Cabal Ritual g1 and side in graveyard hate that we simply don't care about. Cabal Ritual is my most frequently sided out card for this reason, and every time someone taps out t2 to play RIP against me I smile my ass off.
One question for you guys, what is your take on Defense Grid? I've found its a wrecking for UR builds that run super mana light, but I often hate paying 2 for it. Has anyone else tested with this card?
My list, for reference:
4 Ponder; 4 Brainstrom; 4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Infernal Tutor; 4 Burning Wish; 1 Ad Nauseam; 1 Empty the Warrens
4 Cabal Therapy; 2 Thoughtsieze
3 Chrome Mox; 4 Lotus Petal; 4 Lions Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual; 4 Rite of Flame; 2 Cabal Ritual
2 Misty Rainforest; 2 Polluted Delta; 2 Scalding Tarn; 2 Underground Sea; 2 Volcanic Island; 2 Gemstone Mine
SB:
1 Empty the Warrens; 1 Past In Flames; 1 Tendrils of Agony; 1 Infernal Tutor; 1 Massacare; 1 Shattering Spree; 1 Tropical Island
2 Abrupt Decay; 2 Xantid Swarm; 2 Pithing Needle/Defense Grid; 2 Chain of Vapor
I've had Chain of Vapor win me the game a few times in the past week versus Miracles when playing Doomsday. Granted, I can't side in Needle for Top when on DDFT. But if you Decay or Therapy away their Counterbalance (or they simply don't draw it), you can Duress/Therapy and then bounce their top so they can't have access to a counter via top post Duress/Therapy. Example: I Duress, he casts Brainstorm (presumably to hide FoW), Brainstorm resolves, and I Chain of Vapor his Top with Duress still on the stack. This might be a corner case, but I thought it was worth mentioning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
The jury is still out on whether or not Xantid Swarm is worth bringing in against Miracles. It's nice when they side out creature removal and you can slip it in on T1 before CB drops. I find the problem is when you have to fish for AD for a few turns they've managed to gather a plethora of counters since you haven't been able to cast any discard spells. XS might make those useless; so you don't have to AD CB and then try to work through their counters before they slam another CB.
And I've won a game against burn by attacking with two Simian Spirit Guides for four turns. That doesn't mean it was right or what we should be aiming to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgustipated
I fail to comprehend why you would want to put yourself in a position where you need a bounce spell and a discard spell in order to deal with the top card of their deck, when you can just play Xantid Swarm. If they leave in removal, there's only two of them in your deck that you can shuffle away. If you don't draw them, they have dead draws in their removal. Xantid is incredibly effective considering most lists are siding or playing Flusterstorms paired with Spell Pierce. Not to mention that your example only works if they don't have anything else doing on in their hand which is rarely the case.
I'm not sure if 2-3 sideboard slots are sufficient for nullifying the top 3 of their deck. I feel this is a weakness of having strictly discard since Silence was dropped. I don't see the connection between SSG beatdown and the Chain/Discard combo. If you have 7 discard spells (11 including BW?), its not uncommon to find yourself in situation where 1 of 2 CoVs are in your hand while also holding a discard spell. CoV beats hate bears for U and has the added benefit of adding to storm for natural Tendrils (since ETW isn't always optimal versus decks that pack hate bears).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
When I played Miracles, or when I am playing with Silence and Top, my sole mission is to float counters on top of my deck to ambush discard dependent combo. I think this is a common occurrence and a situation we can't overcome without running important spells blindly into potential Top draws or drawing 1 of 2 or 3 Swarms that may or may not be killed by lingering removal spells post SB.
I was pointing out an example of situations that are rare that don't really matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgustipated
We have Needles and Decays to answer Top, in addition to Xantid Swarm if that's what is required of us. Siding in Chain of Vapor is just worse than all of these options. Not to mention that we're not running Swarm for just top, while it's a benefit, the card is an all-star in other match-ups as well (See: Reanimator & Sneak Show).
I'd like to make the case for Xantid Swarm here, I started out as a conservative Xantid Swarm user, but I became a believer as I played the Miracles matchup more. Swarm's role as a Silence on legs (wings??) increases in value the more the density and variation of opposing counters increases. The fault in the all-discard protection plan is that if the opponent has something like FoW, Fluster/Counterspell and Envelop/Snare in hand, you have to wait for solutions for every single one to get into your hand (won't even touch how terrible it is trying to deal with a SCM in that mix). Miracles is definitely the one that wins out most often in situations where you're forced to play draw-go like this, with Xantid Swarm you get to maintain the aggression that most often leads to success.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgustipated
Attacking Miracles by denying them their inevitability is what makes Xantid Swarm a valuable player, an extra bonus is that it also saves mana on the combo turn if successful, which leads to even more speed. If I drop the Swarm turn 1, realistically, how is Miracles responding? StP/Terminus is one answer, FoW is the other, since the varied counters that Miracles might play can't touch Swarm.
In the former case, removal, it's an even trade that forces them to tap out mana and delays the establishment of Top/Balance. This gives you a greater chance to make discard effective by giving you an extra turn to find it (you don't always open Duress), or preventing them from sticking Top or Brainstorming (You also catch a small edge if they Terminus your Swarm as they have one less Terminus for possible Goblins). In the latter case, FoW, you effectively created a Hymn to Tourach for G that only hits their good cards, as you'd have to deal with the FoW at some point and any blue card they have postboard is some kind of threatening thing (possible exception, Jace). Late game, the opponent is stuck keeping removal in mind for Swarm, and if you draw Swarm you can simply lay it down for Storm, flash a Therapy (I believe you have priority to Therapy before they can StP), or Brainstorm it away.
Xantid Swarm is also a huge difference-maker in Fatty or mono-U combo matchups, so it's not as though its hard to justify the slots.
I think Bryant's suggestion of 2 Needle and 2 Swarm sounds good. However, if not playing Needle in SB, then a minimum of 3 Swarms should probably be in the SB to obviate this dilemma. I might add that I've found Swarms to be quite effective against Infect as well, which seems to be gaining popularity as of late.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderPreaux
If we all start putting Xantid Swarms in our SB though, how long until Miracles players begin keeping in their creature removal? And if this does happen, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Sure, with only 2-3 Swarms, they might end up with dead cards in their hand instead of counters, but if our turns are spent dropping Xantid Swarm and passing then they have more time to find and play Counterbalance. Then we have to find our 2nd sideboard card (AD). Playing against Miracles feels a bit like sinking into quicksand. The more steps we take to set up the kill, the more time they have to circumvent the set up. Their ability to circumvent, though, comes largely from Top - which is why Pithing Needle might be a boon in this matchup. I don't disagree that Xantid Swarm can be effective against Miracles, my only complaint is that its not as "elegant" of a solution as I'd like. Although, perhaps that's the reason Miracles is a DTB - no easy answer to their strategy.
Let's say we've dropped our Swarm, passed the turn, and it comes back to us. Our hand still needs some sculpting and we're not quite ready to go off, so we attack, then proceed to Duress, brainstorm, fetch, etc. unfettered by whatever counters they might have. If we see a hand with both creature removal *and* counters, which do we take? I'm concerned that we might be inclined to take the creature removal, only to have them draw another STP or flip Terminus, and then we lose to the 3+ counters in their hand.
There are no elegant solutions to Miracles, I imagine thats rather the point of control, that no combo or aggro deck can simply or consistently tear you down. A lot of the time when I beat Miracles, it's because they couldn't find a Terminus for Goblins, they tapped out at the wrong time, I had an Abrupt Decay at the right time, etc. Some things do just have to go right for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgustipated
Well, if they have multiple counters, it makes sense to take, say, their 1 removal. The odds are against them to get subsequent removal, and sitting around waiting for discard to match 3+ counters is the real quicksand sinking thing. If they only have 1 counter, go ahead and take it and for them to spend mana on removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by disgustipated
I understand Chain is awful, but I think it's necessary with my SB. I don't run swarm so top-floating is super scary. Also, When I'm doing the draw go thing (waiting for business/sculpting) with a CB on deck, I usually lose to a second piece of hate coming down: meddling Mage, Cannonist, Leyline, top floating a spell, ect., ect. So the one chain is there to help prevent that. I'm honestly considering cutting it for a 4th decay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
As far as the sided in tendrills is concerned, I do fear the Mage, and getting the natural chain through counters is something I've gotten good at. That said I'm still running the version with Empty in the main since I have not decided on the cabal rituals.
O, and I totally see your point with swarm over the cabal, now. Thanks.
In danger of sounding like a douche: do you justify boarding a bad card because of a hole in your SB constellation and a highly questionable gameplan (draw, go)? As mentioned my other users before: you block floated counters with Xantid or Needle. You can't afford 2-for-1 yourself just to get rid of a floated counterQuote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
The joke about Meddling Mage/Canonist from Miracles SB is that it became pretty rare alongside Terminus postboard.
Played a local tonight. Won it, going undefeated.
Won two games via Empty the Warrens
Won two games via Past in Flames
Won two games via Natural Spell Chain
Won four games via Ad Nauseam
Cabal Ritual was great, still having Chrome Mox off of Ad Nauseam was nice too.
What were your matchups? Was there ever a game where you could've gone off turn one if you had an EtW in the main?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
UR Delver (MD Eidelons)Quote:
Originally Posted by aCatNamedBootsy
Belcher
Deathblade
Affinity Prison (Chalices, Revokers, Cannonists, SFM -> Batterskull + Sword + Thopter, Mox Opals)
Affinity Prison (Chalices, Revokers, Cannonists, SFM -> Batterskull + Sword + Thopter, Mox Opals)
There was one game, in which I could've dropped 12 Goblins on turn one if I had Empty in the main. Instead it resulted in a turn two Ad Nauseam.
I tried siding in PIF + Tendrils over Ad Nauseam versus UR Delver. It made my draws seem much slower as in our third game I opened a hand that would've been an Ad Nauseam kill on turn one which became Goblins (Infernal for Wish for Empty). Not sure on how I feel about that plan, it is also dreadful if they have sided in Cages.
Needles were great against Belcher.
Deathblade wasn't much of a problem.
The Affinity Prison was kind of rough, Void Snare came up big in a situation where I Decayed a Cannonist end step. Untapped, Rite of Flame, Petal, Wish, Void Snare his Revoker on LED, LED, LED, Infernal, Wish, Tendrils.
Basically "skip a turn and the EtW-gamble to go for AN directly"? Wasn't this one of the topics we had recently here? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
It matters in matches with Thalia, Chalice, Wastelands and then other fast match-ups like Burn. It's not as simple as it appears to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
So I stuck with the tried and true (3 chrome mox) and lost my first match to UR yesterday, I'm now 9-1 against them. The guy sits down in front of me and says, "crap, I hate storm". He's on the play and snap-keeps with a happy face. I assumed he has FoW in his hand (or Fow and dig), and for some reason kept a hand of land, fetch, BS, PonderX2, dark rit, Ad N. He goes T1 swift spear, probe, probe Swing. I sculpt pass after drawing land. He goes bolt, chain lightning, swing. Long story short Ad N didn't get me there at such a low life.
Game 3 I open bad hand with 2x Mox, mulligan, bad hand with mox, keep 5 to die the turn before I would have won.
That said, I won my next match against D&T with me seeing a plains, vial game 1, by emptying for 14 and riding them home thanks to mox.
Round 3 - irrelevant
Round 4 - Esper deathblade baited/duressed through counters/thoughtseize then managed to Empty(maindeck), flashback cabal, win. If it was a past in flames I think I still could have won, it just would have taken me longer.
So yeah, IDK about dumping mox for sure yet, but I'll definitely try it at my next tournament.
I board in everything you guys board in. I just want to bring one more piece in. Draw, go isn't my gameplan, but when you therapy/probe and see you have no option, it happens, douche.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I play against a much worse meta. Besides the 3 stax decks, D&T, and traditional miracles list, my worst match every week is UWb miracles which chooses to keep a hand with counters, E tutor turn 1 for Cannonist, play Nethervoid turn 4, that's what I have to face every week, so yeah I want an additional chain. I was just pointing out that chain has options in dire straits. That said I would only bring it in against UW running E-tutor.
Also, if cannonist/meddling is on the board, they don't need terminus as anything other than a backup plan. But in my meta, they side out swords/terminus because they can always Etutor for detention sphere, energy field, or EE.
I can't tell you how many times I see players side in RiP, cage, ect. just because they have dead cards, or are just bad. D&T did it against me last night (running the mox build) and I was like, man I don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Am I correct in assuming your choice for TES in your meta is wrong? It sounds very wrong. Don't get me wrong, this deck is awesome and playing against a hostile meta is very good for experience, but please try not to draw too many conclusions out of it concerning the "optimal" list. A hostile meta is a hostile meta, not a reason for suboptimal choices. Your optimal choice is probably to simply play Goblins or Jund in such a meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
While we often don't care, it can eliminate some lines that just win. I would've had D&T beat through Revoker on LED had it not been for RiP, so I had to do a risky AN that didn't work out.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
I asume you are talking about Cabal vs. Moxen in a meta which is heavily warped towards favoring the Belcher-mode?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
As a non-storm player I don't see how having "you can't use the grave" cards to augment your actual storm hate is bad. If I discard half of your hand and you PiF then I die anyway. If I happen to have Cage/DRS while discarding your hand I've cut off the main ANT route to victory, and at least one BW route (IGG or PiF, depending on era.) I wouldn't keep a hand for just grave-hate, but having a Cage/Spellbomb instead of a Plow is pretty handy. Pyro-sideboards are covered by EtW hate making the side-out moot.Quote:
Originally Posted by That nice guy
Nerfing Cabal Rit is a thing too IMO.
EDIT: It's worth noting that a non-trivial portion of the meta (especially with the constantly evolving lists) can't tell the difference between ANT or TES; making grave hate a safer bet.
Not to change the topic, but I was wondering if I could get an opinion on trying to cast spells thru a chalice at 1.
At my local tonight an opponent of mine resolved a chalice at 1 and seemed to forget about it, he tried at one point to resolve a top through it. I was fairly sure I could have end of turned ritual, ritual ad naus with out him stopping me. I didn't do it and lost g2 (won g3) but I was wondering about the ethics of this?
I know it's not technically cheating (they should know their cards, etc) but I would feel shitty winning this way. Has anyone had any experience with this? Any thoughts?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's their trigger so you're not responsible. Chalice doesn't imply you can't cast your spells. It says that when you do, they might get countered but you can still play them. I've resolved Brainstorm through Chalice@1 heaps of times :P. It's a little dick'y, but so is playing Chalice of the Void.Quote:
Originally Posted by redhamjack
Also on beating Chalice@1;
Artifact mana and Empty are your friend.
Tom
Some friends and I had this same discussion at eternal weekend when Steve Menedian played Musical Tutor through my friends Chalice on 1 to get Grudge. While he thinks it's a bad rule since a trigger is a trigger, you have to play to the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by redhamjack
The subject is tricky, but it's not like you're stacking a deck or marking sleeves.
In my opinion context matters i.e. are we talking about a regular REL event like an FNM or something more competitive?Quote:
Originally Posted by redhamjack