Printable View
Im planning to play Goblins in the grinders of GP Gent. I tested a lot last days and found "fair decks" easy to beat. But SneakShow and Reanimator really gives me headaches.
I play 2 Sting main, but that doesnt cut it, they have to many different threads and ways to cheat them into play.
Do you think Thalia is really the way to go? Maybe Ill test blue for Pierces.
mans0011, why did you decide to go with four Mogg Fanatics? Were you preparing for specific matchups? I don't like the fourth Pyrokinesis though because drawing it too often creates card disadvantage. I think three is the right number. Why do you have Tinkerer on SB but Tuktuk on MD? I use to keep Tinkerer in the MD because he is cheap, and is decent if my opponent doesn't have artifacts to destroy. Tuktuk gets sided in when I see Stoneforge. But I'd like to here your opinion. NICE REPORT THOUGH!
ScatmanX, how do you feel about Chrome Mox + Winstigator? It seems Winstigator didn't get to shine on any of your matches, while a turn 1 Lackey helped a ton. Were there any instances you wished the Winstigators were Piledrivers? With regards to GW Maverick, G1, option 2 may have been better, but you still had a chance if you managed to get a mountain. But I don't think your play was too bad. Your mana base is too gready though. To be honest, I don't think Port really benefit your deck as a stall tactic. You may want to replace one with a Mountain, and the other for the third Piledriver.
Humphrey, for Sneak and Show, I have Stingscourgers, Pithing Needles, and Red Elemental Blasts, and just try to outrace them. For Reanimator, I have Stingscourgers, Red Elemental Blasts (to go against their counters, if felt necessary), Relic of Progenitus, and Grafdigger's Cage. Having both Relic and Cag is nice because they have to side in both Echoing Truth and Pithing Needle to go against them.
My SB looks like this:
1 Stingscourger (1 MD)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (0 MD)
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
I decided to dodge E. Plaque, Mono White Control, and Storm. Pithing Needle is too good with Engineered Explosives, Pernicious Deed, Umezawa's Jitte, and other cards that outright kills goblins, running around.
I totally missed this. One word: Awesome.Quote:
I activate Krenko to put five tokens into play and attack for the win. Total damage given; 26, total damage taken; 15, surviving annihalator 6. How I love the examples given by L10 and others; I was very happy with this result.
Here is my oppinion on those MUs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
SneakShow:
* is inconsitent, sometimes it has T3 Combo + Protection, sometimes it's fishing for 5 turn without doing anything
* you won't significantly improve the MU with Pierce whereas you can be sure that Pierces will stay in your board in most other MUs
* the deck is not played frequently, just dodge it
Reanimator:
* Leyline of the FUCKING Void is good. Don't let them tell you that "Yeah, you know, Leyline is useless because we just can go off via Show and Tell" cause this is simply not true. They do NOT want to S&T against a deck that features Ringleader, Matron, Siege-Gang and most importantly: Stingscourger
* other GYhate than LLOTV is not effective against Reanimator
* The deck is expensive and might therefore not be frequently played, just dodge it
So: I would just accept that the S&T MU is basically a coinflip and that Reanimator is beatable with Leylines. The decks you need to focus on are UW Miracle, RUG Thresh and Stoneblade variants.
any tips on how to play against miracle control? I pretty much get raped by them most of the time. I find it rather insulting when my T1 lackey gets "answered" by a miracled Terminus.
Tips:Quote:
Originally Posted by movingtonewao
* Vial is more important than Lackey in this MU
* don't overextend. you can usually build up some pressure with ~4 creatures. keep the rest in your hand to be able to rebuild your pressure after a Terminus
* play 4 Piledrivers
* play Sulfuric Vortex in your SB
* the REAL problem about this deck is not Terminus but Entreat the Angels. The more they run, the worse it is. usually they don't have any other win-condition apart from EtA
I always prefered Instigator over Piledrivers, and don't think more pillys would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Mox did was a little unnimpressive today, but did saved me against Dredge G3, being able to play and crack Relic T1, which without, I'd have lost.
On the other hand, on the other top8 match, tere was goblins vs SnT, and Goblins led, with mulligan, with a T3 kill from Mox+Cavern+Instigator, T2 dropping Kiki+Piledriver, which was pretty awesome.
Thinking more about it, cutting a Port for another Mountain is probably right. This weekend there'll be more tournaments, so let's see how it goes.
I dont think Sneakshow and Reanimator are that inconsistant, depends on the build though.
And dodging them on a big tourney is not the best plan :D
Here is my current list.
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wasteland
2 Volcanic Island
4 AEther Vial
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Goblin Piledriver
2 Warren Instigator
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
2 Goblin Warchief
2 Goblin Matron
2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Tuktuk Scrapper
SB: 4 Spell Pierce
So dirty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
3 Needles looks pretty good as well. BUG Control and Nic Fit are playing Deed and Needle also shuts off Top against Miracle control, making it more difficult for them to setup Terminus. Shuts down Sneak Attack. Shuts down Jace. Shuts down equipment as well. I'm surprised some people leave this out of their sideboard.
You run insanely high curve without ports, only 8 one drops and 5 two drops (stings is of course 2cmc drop but you won't play on turn 2 too often) would occasionally lead to empty turns which is crucial in today field in my opinion, and only two matrons? There will be plenty situations where you can cast matron and find anything but third sgc will just be unplayable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
Let us know how it did if you attend any tournament.
Damn those posts that get lost on the 20th post of a page...
Well, if we dont manage to cheat big stuff via Lackey/Instigator or Vial into play, we are almost dead green anyway. So the plan is to consistently connect and drop a bomb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri8
Maybe I want a third Stingscourger.
I think Matron is the weakest slot, until you play a few 1-ofs.
@Vacrix: I did play Needles at my last tournament and they were very useful indeed. Wont play less then 2 atm. In my opinion, its the best hate against Jitte and if the opponent fetches for Skull, naming SFM is pure gold. Shuts down Grizzel, too ;)
Awwww, dude :-D it didn't get lost. I'm just sick of writing you "well played" and "congratulations on the finish" whenever you come back from a tournament. You are so successful it makes me lazy :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Jokes aside: You really ARE successful and performed well as always, good job. I already added your tournament report to the list of tournament report in the primer.
Thanks! just needed some love =pQuote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
@Humphrey: How can you say Matron is the weakest slot in the deck, when she is, well, every slot in the deck?
Need Stingscourger vs Emrakul? Well, you have 6 now.
Ringleader vs Control? You have 8.
Another Piledriver against combo? Well, there you go.
Tuktuk? You got the picture already.
Most of the times Matron is to slow for my taste and only finds stuff I could have drawn directly. I wont cut them completely, but I think the times you play 4 are over. Spots are tiight and we have enough strong goblins now, so no need or time for tutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
But like this you increase the chances of having the wrong goblin each time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
You may, when playing a Piledriver and a SGC instead of 2 Matrons, have the one you want the least on your hand instead of the other. OR, you can draw your 3rd Piledriver or 3rd SGC, when you really wanted a Ringleader, and you won't be able to go after them.
Also, imo, when you really want Tuktuk or Stingscourger, having 6 virtual copies of them is better than having "just" 4.
Fanatics was a St Louis metagame call. I expected lots of maverick, dredge, elves, goblins, and some Confidants. There were many times where Matron into Fanatic won me the game, either by providing that crucial piece of removal at the perfect price (Tarfar does the same here) on the spot, or being able to tutor it, play it, attack with it (pumping piledriver which they MUST block) due to Chieftain in play, and ping the opponent. Fanatic was beastly for me in the grinders against goblins, though I was running a 2/2 split on Fanatic and Marshal. I'm going to test a list that's much closer to Gobolord's and see how much I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
I think that you're correct about Pyrokinesis. While it's an amazing card and I can get behind 4 copies, I think that 3 is appropriate.
Tinkerer was lackluster for me all weekend. It's entirely possible that I'm just bad at Magic, but the only artifacts I really encountered were equipment. I didn't even once blow up an artifact lock piece, not even against MUD in round 1, haha! I had him main in the grinders and I found myself boarding him out frequently. (Side note: I am most certainly bad at sideboarding.)
The metagame here has a lot of Stoneblade, I wish I had prepared for it a bit better, both in card choices and in tactics. Oh well!
I think I may want 3 copies of Anarchy in the board. It's such a ridiculously good card for when you need it.
I don't have problems against reanimator, to be honest. Vial in Stingscourger is winning against them. Cage and Crypt just crush them. I had a guy turn 2 Elesh Norn me in the grinders, and I only had my 1 Stinger main. I probably should have played it out, but I think he had back up juice already working, so I just scooped. I crushed him the next two rounds, even before he could really get anything going. I know that Dredge is not the same as Reanimator, but when they dredge into an active Griselbrand and hit you with it. Twice. And you -still- win...? I think the match up is ok.
Still not sure about Red Elemental Blast. It's such a good card when you need it, too. I guess it really just depends on your metagame. It's ok against Sneak and Show, Jace, and other things, but Sneak Attack dodges that hate and Show and Tell you have goblins with amazing CITP triggers to find what you need.
I think I boarded in needles once or twice. I never cast one all weekend. I'm sure I boarded in Pyrokinesis many times when I should have just sided in Needles because I am a noob. Needle seems sick against Stoneblade (you have SO many targets!).
I think that there should be a new 'core' for the goblins deck.
Can we all (particularly Gobo) agree that the following cards should be in every goblins deck?
4 Goblin lackey
3 Goblin piledriver
4 Goblin matron
4 Goblin warchief
1 Goblin sharpshooter
4 Goblin ringleader
2 Krenko, mob boss
1 Siege-gang commander (now that Krenko is here, it's no longer a must to run 2)
4 Aether vial
3 Gempalm incinerator
21 Land (4 Wasteland, 4 Caverns mandatory)
That is 30 spells and 21 lands are accounted for. That is 51 cards in total, so you have 9 'flex' slots to play with, to get
1. 1-2 slots for more mana acceleration (land, chrom mox, prospector, winstigator)
2. 3-4 slots for more removal (Tarfire, Fanatic, Weirding, TukTuk, Stingscourger)
3. 0-1 slot for more 'Big' spells (KikiJiki, Wort)
4. everything else is more glue (Mogg War Marshall, Goblin King), plus extras of cards not already maxed out
Now, my gut feeling is that those 9 slots should be
1 Mountain (taking you up to 22)
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Mogg War Marshal
Although obviously that can change based on the environment.
That gives us 2 more mana, 3 more removal, and a bunch more cards that play well with Krenko. Yes?
2 Mogg War Marshal feels kinda weird. It's not a card you would tutor for so it should probably be run as a 3-4 of or not at all. I really want to run the 3rd MWM and Chieftain, but can't find the slots for it.
I know it's heresy to consider it, but is Goblin Piledriver necessary in the more token-centric builds that goblins is becoming?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmerl
However I want to thank you for your insightful comments.
It's not possible that everyone agrees on "the list". The more cards you want to set in stone the less flexibility you allow - recently I have EX-cluded Piledrivers from the "Core" to make step in this very direction.
My list is -1 Krenko, -1 Warchief, no SS in main, and only 2 piledrivers (WInstigator build.)Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmerl
I'm also experimenting with 2 Chrome Mox due to ScatmanX's success with them, which leaves room for only 19 lands.
Nothing against your list, but I would just argue that other options exist and the "core" doesn't need to be updated.
The difference between what you have in the OP and my list isQuote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
3 Goblin piledriver
1 Goblin sharpshooter
2 Krenko, mob boss
3 Gempalm Incinerator
- 1 Siege-Gang Commander
When I see a list that has less than 3 Incinerators for example, I just think it's wrong. Surely there's some consensus about this?
Yeah, I get that. But the more that goblins becomes a streamlined and tuned deck, doesn't the core grow and become more stable?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord