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I agree with Cire_dk. BBB is really difficult to produce especially early in the game (where the extract effect would be best)
Slaughter Games (for R builds) and Memoricide/Cranial Extraction both serve a similar purpose while being easier to cast.
And the thought of playing SadSac with kicker is nice but when you get to 10 mana you should be winning anyway if you ask me.
Hey so i am newer to playing nic fit, I have tested and played a little with the jund scapeshift version but thats not really my kind of game. I like the rector BWG builds as well but i was thinking of playing BUG fit. Here is my list, alot of it is the standard nic fit stuff, and I am not a big combo player, so i don't like the helm combo's and stuff, that's why i didn't like the scapeshift version. But here is my list I have played against enchantress but haven't really had the chance to test it against other decks. Let me know what you guys think. I have also been thinking about adding some counter spells to the deck but this is the base I will most likely be playing around with.
3x Jace tms
3x deed
3x top
1x diabolic intent
4x brainstorm
1x maelstrom pulse
3x green sun
4x cabal therapy
1x sakura tribe elder
2x phyrexian metamorph
2x coiling oracle
2x eternal witness
4x veteran explorer
2x thragtusk
1x consecrated sphinx
1x primeval titan
1x simic sky swallower
3x verdant catacombs
3x mist rainforest
1x phyrexian tower
1x volrath's stronghold
3x bayou
2x tropical's
2x underground seas
3x forest
3x island
2x swamp
Haven't made a side Board yet for the deck but that depends alot on the meta
For my own opinion it's better if you put a few trusty spot removal, you will only rely on Pernicious Deed and a piece of Maelstrom Pulse i think you must add more a little bit :wink: Your build also focused on purely ramp, in this case you must think "what if i can't ramp more?" try Kitchen Finks / Thrun, the Last Troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by niklaas1212
Btw, what is your Nic-Fit build? BGR Nic-Fit is best on Blue Variant Decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by eq.firemind
I really like Nic-Fit with punishing fire (PF) because it answers quite nicely one of the problem of the deck: the planeswalkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by kabards
You do not draw any conclusion from your tournament. Are you perfectly satisfied with the list?
I would love comments on a lot of you slots:
- 2 Huntmaster? It is redundant with the PFs. I would cut one for Eternal witness which is really good (I would play 2 of them)
- Is Finks necessary when you already have Thragtusk?
- Grave Titan is the only creature that you cannot find with zenith. Why not something else? Ermit?
- Why Garruk other a 3rd liliana? She is better in the bad match-ups.
- 1 diabolic intent? How was this singleton for you?
TW
This would be my answers to your questions:Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMeWaLk
Huntmaster of the Fells - It is one of the best slot for 4cc zenitable creature, you already gain 2 life you still have a 2/2 token.
Kitchen Finks - Before i had 2 Eternal Witness in my deck but if you have only 4 mana, Eternal Witness is not a good creature to zenith for 3 if you had no good card in your graveyard. So i cut one of it, Kitchen finks will be a good defence also for offense in my opinion.
Grave Titan - This coming December 2, 2012 we would have a big tournament again, it would be change to Thrun, the Last Troll.
Garruk, the Relentless - a good chumpblocker, token maker, 3cc below toughness creature removal, also good against, Jace, the Mindsculptor.
Diabolic Intent - such a good card for me a tutor, sacrifice engine.
and about a problem vs planeswalker, it is not that though to deal with planeswalker, i have an access to Maelstrom Pulse, if you had a creature in play you could kill their defender by means of abrupt decay that can't be countered.
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I'm thinking that it would be better that even if you had only few lands in play you can also win by means of your trusty creatures like, Kitchen Finks, Huntmaster of the Fells, Thrun, the Last Troll and Scavenging Ooze.
I agree with all your comments. However, I just propose improvements.
Huntmaster is a good card, no question here. I just saw a list with 0 witness. I thought it could better to run one, other another creature. Maybe not the Huntmaster but Finks for example. Of course, if your metagame requires a lot of spot removals & blockers, Finks + Huntmaster are just insanely good.
Why is Garruk good against Jace? (I agree he is better than Liliana)
Thank you for the quick answers.
TW
Good job on the games kabards! Let's get that one on Dec 2!
I think you also need to include the fact that 2 Witness' is a bit bad since we run 4 Punishing Fires (in your case 3). Our list both runs 2 Pulses and 4 P.Fire, so planeswalkers was never much an issue. Also, the Grave Titan was a fail card. I saw your matches, never saw it in play. Thrun is good but there maybe other options for this 1 creature slot.
To add on this, Huntmaster is an awesome card. Whenever I cast it, I get a small smirk in my face. It adds a lot of pressure to your opponents. You get 2 creatures, you gain 2 lives and they are forced to cast a spell unless they want him turn into a 4/4 Wolf ^_^
Anyway, I have been on a slump on the Jund Nic-Fit so I am moving it to the BGW Version. Thought it feels different due to the Rector line-up but I kinda like the feel of a new color. Feel free to provide your comments. Thanks!
3 Sensei
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Starved Rusalka
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen FInks
3 Academy Rector
1 Thrun
1 Sigarda
1 Armada Wurm
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Vindicate
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
SB:
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Extirpate
2 Thoughtseize
1 Rest in Peace
1 Humility
1 Moat
1 Nether Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Raking Canopy
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Flexible Slot <No Idea what to put yet
@unemployer,
I think that list folds to combo, and that's not a good plan. I suggest a single Teeg and a 4th GSZ at the very least.
Also, Thragtusk rendered Finks obsolete in Nic Fit IMO.
Arianrhod Latest Lists: Rector page 153:
@unemployer: After testing the rector version in a few tournaments I still think Arianrhods Rector list is close to perfect becaus it has all the synergy it needs. Nethervoid form the SB helps but Combo will always be a bad match up.
For his list check his signature with a direct link. For example on page 155
I have to agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
The moatless rector lists with armada wurm and more single target removal might be decent though. However, you should drop thrun and finks though, Thrag and sigarda are just better. I actually really like garruk relentless (or prime hunter is good too) in that list. He helps with the Miracles match up a lot.
Thanks for the insights but what do you suggest to fight combo? More hand removals? Memoricide? Cranial?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
I've been wondering on his list for a while. How come it has more creatures and less removals (1Pulse 1 Vindicate 3 Deed)? Is ramping a problem? It has a lot of big CC creatures 6 (5-6-cc creatures).
With the inclusion of Moat most creature matchups get allot better. After Moat hits play winning is just a matter of finding one of the high quality finishers the deck has. Pulse, vindicate and deed also provide allot of time.
Due to threat density the control matchups is also pretty good.
That basically leaves combo which is a rather difficult mathup especially preboard. Cabal therapy is used to stall the opponent to the point where you can sac a rector and find Nether Void. But getting enough time to actually do that is though. And both cranial and memoricide are alternate routes to stopping combo.
The speed of combo decks is what makes it so difficult. You have only a number of turns (if youre lucky) to stall/stop the enemy
I play a rector build which is the exact 61 mainboard as Arianhrod. I just play a leyline of sanctity and 2 thoughtseize instead of abrubt decay and deathrite shaman. (also due to card availability at the moment)
You have extirpate, Cranial and Memerocide to help you against combo. Rector into nether void is also very good. Since we are playing a ramp deck ramping should not be a problem. Combo will be a difficult match up for Nic Fot but it is not an auto loss. Every deck has its limitations and bad match ups but Nic Fit is fun to play and has a lot of good match ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by unemployer
As stated before it is a deck that takes a long time to play well. I am only at the beginning of this journey but the synergy and options make it a blast to play. I played many different decks Zoo, Goblin, BUG control, UW Miracles, but none off them has beaten the fun I have playing Nic Fit :smile:
And if you get bored, there are at least 5 versions to try out. So plenty of ways to satisfy my restless mind and my urge to buy new cards once in a while. :tongue:
True that! When I read this thread, I immediately created my own list for Jund NicFit. It was so amazing that kabards borrowed it and he got to the top 8! Since then, we have been playing NicFit and it has been fun. I am only switching to white for variety reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
I will look into the list again and see the results on Dec 2.
Sleeved up Rector Fit after a monthly break of BUG Fit, feels good to be playing therapies again. Took first place at a local event with the following list:
Creatures (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Academy Rector
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Armada Wurm
Spells (25)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Innocent Blood
2 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Debtors' Knell
Lands (22)
2 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
Sideboard (15)
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Rest in Peace
1 Leyline of Sanctity (Budget Nether Void)
1 Fleshbag Marauder (I don't own a Humility yet)
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
R1: 2-1 vs. Combo Elves
G1: Thoughtseize and Therapy peels my opponent's options. I have an Explorer a Rector and a Sigarda beating in play to my opponent's 5 1/1s and flooded board. I lose to a topdecked Craterhoof Behemoth for lethal (wtf!?).
-1 Teeg, -1 Ooze, -1 Arena, -1 Faith's, -1 Debtors, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Curse, +1 Deed, +2 Pulse
G2: I blind Therapy 2 Glimpse on T1 followed by a Tower/Explorer ramp into Rector flashbacked for Curse. My opponent has a Nettle Sentinel with a Jitte on it and concedes when I GSZ for Penis Wurm.
G3: I keep a shaky hand with no interactions before T3 (terrible idea). My opponent keeps a shaky hand as well with a T1 Druid and a T2 Symbiote (missed a landrop). When I reached 3 lands I Vindicated his lone Forest and saced explorer to Tower and hardcasted Curse the following turn. He scooped to Thragtusk.
R2: 2-0 vs. Aggro Loam
G1: Deed the board and land Sigarda.
-1 Teeg, -1 Arena, -1 Faith's, -2 IoK, -2 Thoughtseize, +1 Sliver +1 RiP, +1 Deed, +2 Pulse, +2 Extirpate
G2: Deed the board again and Pulse/Vindicate the threats. My opponent tries to recur enough lands for a few turns to play a Seismic Assault and deal 16 damage to the face in a single turn (I assume so) while I beat with Sigarda with a Deed on the board. Before the lethal turn, I therapy for Seismic Assault and play Rector + flashback for RiP.
R3: 2-0 vs. Dragon Stompy
G1: My opponent mulls to 6. I thoughtseize away a threat and see a flooded hand with a Gathan Raider and a Jitte. I Vindicate the threat and durdle around with Deeds and Ooze for a while. I finally nuke the board and play a Thragtusk, my opponent scoops shortly after.
-1 Teeg, -1 Arena, -2 IoK, +1 Sliver, +1 Deed, +2 Pulse
G2: T1 Trini, T2 Raiders, and T3 Rakdos Dragon from my opponent causes me to fetch basics for the first 3 turns before casting a Pulse on the Dragon. I take a swing before a T4 Explorer hits the table. Blood Moon happens (which I couldn't care less about) followed by another Dragon, then, Explorer chumps the Raider. I play a Deed and leave mana open for the next turn. I Deed for 4 getting rid of Moon, Trini, Mox, and Dragon leaving Raiders in play, so I am down to 7 life. I play an Explorer that I promptly Innocent Blood therefore sweeping the board then I play a Rector leaving Tower untapped. My opponent draws a land and passes so I Tower the Rector for Debtor's Knell EoT (Yeah!). I grab a Dragon during my upkeep play a Thragtusk, my opponent scoops once again.
R4: 2-0 vs. Miracle Walkers
G1: Long and grindy game involving a lot of durdling with Tops from both sides. My opponent failled to find a threat for what seemed to be aproximately 5 shuffles and 10+ Top activations while I tried to beat with whatever I could find (Explorer ate a Terminus at some point).
-3 Explorer, -1 Debtors', -1 Ooze, -2 Rector, -2 Therapy, -2 IB, +3 Carpet, +1 Deed, +1 Sliver, +2 Pulse, +2 Thoughtseize, +2 Extirpate
G1: An early Thoughtseize answered by a Brainstorm reveals 2 Entreats and a bunch of lands. My opponent plays a top that I Fetter's, forcing it back on top. I Extirpate his Entreat, stripping the other from his hand and shuffling back the top. It is only then that I realize that my opponent is playing Miracle Walkers because all that I see are a bunch of EE, Supreme Verdicts, Terminus, and 3 Jace with 2 Elspeth as win-cons. With the Entreats gone, I play an Arena that goes unanswered for many turns. While my opponent manages to assemble CB/Top, I am getting heavily flooded. The game goes extremely long again and involves all 3 Jaces and 2 Elspeths being cast and activated for a couple of turns. I eventualy Vindicate/Pulse them away. I played about 4-5 Thragtusks (2-3 in a row) during that game with top decked GSZ (a very thin library at this point) right after he ate Terminus. In the end, I managed to grind out my opponent's deck of all its win-cons. Part of my success was due to the fact that CB/Top never found a 3 CMC flip and Witness into Vindicate/Pulse always managed to save my hide.
@ Qweerios Gratz , Well done and thanks for the report.
Nice list by the way with some interesting choices. Anything you would change?
@Arianrhod
Wanted your opinion on the following board for your rector list:
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Nether Void
1 Raking Canopy
1 Humility
3 Extirpate
2 Oblivion Rings
2 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
Trying to find a way to battle all the Liliana of the Veil and Junk decks.
Not quite sure. I am not a big fan of Armada Wurm, I don't really know where he stands. Between Sigarda and Thragtusk I rarely find myself using a GSZ for the wurm. I am considering Ghave, Guru of Spores, and Grave Scarab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire_dk
Oooh, those 2 are spicy. Let me know how they work out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios