thanks for the tip! Wow i didn't know jitte was that strong. Vindicate is a really hard-to-use card :(
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thanks for the tip! Wow i didn't know jitte was that strong. Vindicate is a really hard-to-use card :(
@movingtonewao - Hard to say, I think either way if you don't draw another vindicate to kill the other it is pretty much GG since he has a strong card advantage with any combination of Elspeth, Jitte and Batterskull. But take note that once jitte becomes active it doubles as removal which either Elspeth and batterskull doesn't have thus making the fairy tokens useless for blocking.
On Chains of Mephistopheles, its quite interesting as a way to stop control, the only problem I see is that it is costly and hard to find.
If we are going to fit liliana in the deck it could possibly replace Gatekeeper of Malakir since it is easier to cast, and becomes a must kill for the opponent. The thing about lili is that she has a pseudo vindicate as its ultimate skill, the only problem is how to choose the piles correctly.
Not gonna replace The gatekeepers they still holds weapons so. But probly gonna do split.
I see people run without Chrome Mox and without Mental Misstep. How are you gonna do on the play against any faster decks? While might not be needing both but imo 1 of the 2 are needed to catch up.
Probly gonna remove The relic of progenitus from my board As I feel 3 Extractions and Mortarpod is what should be considered for the dredge. 5th card really wont make the matchup that much better. Probly want like 3 Liliana in the 75 maybe even 4, testing will tell. She does add removal and discard from just 1 card. And got a gut feeling she is quite painful to play against, kinda like Gideon in standard is.
I feel the Phyrexian Crusader tech does its job against zoo really great, taking the matchup to slightly favorful if not more, specially the 1 dropp zoo there all but 10 cards are either red or white. Jitte + Crusader is pretty hard for 1dropp zoo to beat.
I feel we have quite good matchup against NO-RUG or Natural Order overall. Multiple Edict effects, attacking their hand, Force of Will working in our favor every 2 for 1 is a win for us, Perish and ways to attack their 0-2 basic manabase.
A card I have been thinking of having in my board is a Crucible of Worlds, wastelocking someone is very tempting to be tested out. Specially against any control deck.
Maybe even increase planeswalker even more, 3-4 liliana and 2-3 Elspeth in the 75. Planeswalkers are exellent to grind someone out.
On the elspeth, batterskull, jitte issue: I think after much afterthought, jitte is the definite answer. Considering my bitterblossom tokens and crusader on the board, I could chump soldiers/germ all day, hence elspeth and batterskull will take longer to grind me down, whereas jitte is a fast tide-turner.Quote:
Originally Posted by paladin3056
On Chains: OK lets say i manage to get my hands on some, is it even that great? My friends say its a very narrow card and is dead if i draw it late.
On Liliana: i think the piles should be land in one pile and non-land in the other. Of course this depends on the situation. Then again I doubt we would use the ultimate often, most of the decks these days have some form of creatures, and the decks that don't run creatures are usually fast combo decks where you don't want to be using a liliana (because too slow).
@ Riszo:
On Gatekeepers: BBB is a horrible cc, and against control decks with no creatures you play him as a grizzly bears. 1 or 2 is enough.
On relic of progenitus: If dredge is your problem, use extraction/extirpate. But relic is randomly good against other things, like even a pumped up tarmogoyf, a life from the loam, and so on.
On Phyrexian Crusader: Not just zoo, I think even against a deck like NO RUG, its not half bad to have him around, dodges their removal + carries equipment like a king.
Crucible of Worlds: cute, but with no way to tutor it up you almost always wish this were something else. For a singleton, you probably want something like Elspeth to win you the game immediately.
On liliana: no more than 1-2. You don't really want dead cards in your hand firstly, and secondly she's no jace. Too many planeswalkers clog up your deck too, feels clunky to do that.
Liliana is a planeswalker that you play use a couple of turns then you replace it with an other. She is no jace or elspeth you ride to victory.
I run my deck without mirran crusaders so the BBB or BBBB isnt much problem for me.
Hate doing double posts but was a while sense last post.
I have seen a couple successful UW-blade decks on modo that runs Gideon and/or Baneslayer Angel in their board. I have been liking the Chrome Moxes but Im thinking of experimenting with a Dark Ritual version instead once Liliana gets released. Thinking of testing out a planeswalker trio of Liliana, Elspeth and Gideon. Fueling out them faster with Ritual and Fetid Heaths.
Theorized version
3 Dark Rituals
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Elspeth
1 Gideon
3 Bitterblossom
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flat
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 plain
4 Swamps
Average mana curve 1.35.
I was at our little 8men Tournament today with this list
2 Scrubland
3 Wasteland
3 Fetid Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
5 Swamps
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jötun Grunt
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Duress
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Bitterblossom
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Perish
2 Thorn of Amethyst
And yeah, lets continue to the report.
I:8-Wish-Junk BGW
1) On this game the only error happens I can think of. I was at 3 Mana and played a Top, then recognizing that I wasnt able to cast a Hymn due one white and one black mana. So yeah, that actually lost me this game.
2) This was pretty much mirror. He TS, me Duress, He Bob, me Bob, he Bob, me Bob and so on and so on. An topdecked Jitte wins the game.
3) He plays 2 Bobs while I have a Bitterblossom. He actually doesnt find some lifegenerating source and so on dies to his Bob revealing Mental Misstep
1-0
II:Merfolk
1) I just tríed to push a Batterskull trough, which I was able to.
2) He didnt let my Stoneforge resolve, but after a few turns I topdeck a Jitte and win.
2-0
III:Merfolk
1) Hes a bit manascrewd and so its pretty easy to win.
2) Even though he manages to play a pithing Needle on Stoneforge I beat him down with Nighthawks and Bitterblossoms.
Yeah I placed first out of this 8 people. I liked the deck and every single choice in it.
But feel free to comment.
no comments guys?
Only 2 Scrublands? Is the list a budget version?
What made you go back to Vampire Nighthawks and Jötun Grunt?
I couldnt afford more than 2 Scrubs earlier, so I tried to make it as good as possible. And believe it or not, it runs as smooth as a 4 Scrubland list. Even though I could afford 2 more now.
I was torn between Nighthawks and Gatekeepers... And I first thought Gatekeepers made the cut but then spontaniously decided to take Nighthawks. And I really liked it all the time. I couldnt remember a single matchup where I wished they were Gatekeepers. Didnt face NoRug yet.
Jotun Grunts actually got alot of positive points:
1) Out of bolt-range
2) Mainboard GY-hate
3) Stopping Zoo and early Merfolk on their own
4) Re-using your Equipments and Lands
You see, they are pretty neat arent they? I would try them out.
Greetings
I think Fetid Heaths are a fine Scrubland replacement. You will occasionally get hands with like, 2 Heaths and a Wasteland as your only mana, but most of the time it's fine.
Here are some things I would change:
1) Go down to 3 equipment main. I currently run Jitte/Batterskull/SOBM main with a second Batterskull in the board.
2) Change Duress to IoK main, and Therapy to Duress in the board. If it's a budget list, IoK makes a fine Thoughtseize substitute. There are only a few cards at 4+ you tend to worry about, namely NO, Jace, Tendrils/IGG/AdN.
3) I'm a huge fan of Tidehollow Scullers (I run 2 main, 2 board) but maybe that's just me.
4) The sideboard seems a little loose. Your main looks pre-boarded against Zoo, which is a bad matchup as I'm sure everyone would agree, but your side looks a little unorganized. Therapy comes in against combo? I'd rather have the reliability of Duress out of the board. It sucks Therapying for Infernal Tutor and getting owned by them having the AdN/IGG already in their hand. Thorn is an okay catch-most against combo, but I'd rather have Canonist as it hits Elves and is better against Enchantress (I don't know if that's worth having on your radar, but my LGS has 2 people who play those decks). Often Enchantress makes enough mana to play around Thorn if they have a fast start.
What do you bring Pithing Needle in against? How much Dredge/Reanimator do you face that you feel it's worth devoting 6 slots to grave hate?
My board is currently:
3 Perish
2 Phyrexian Crusader
2 Duress (3 TS, 3 IoK, 4 Hymn main)
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tidehollow Sculler (2 main)
1 Bitterblossom (2 main)
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Batterskull (1 main)
The metagame at my weekly events is a lot of green decks (NO RUG, Aggro Bant, BGW Junk, Intuition Elves) and a few combo decks (Elves, ANT x3, Enchantress, Hive Mind), and no graveyard decks (occasionally one guy brings Dredge, but he usually plays Fish). At a larger tournament I'd probably cut the Batterskull, Bitterblossom and Perish for assorted Crypt-style hate, but not Leyline.
No my deck isnt budget. I do the avaiable money to buy Thoughtseizes and I do have IoK but I really prefer Duress over all of them.
And yes, my sideboard is messy :P
Currently running 20 lands instead of the 19.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark confidant
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Bitterblossom, currently testing as 4 of but might be a 3
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquision of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Dark Ritual / Chrome Mox
4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamps
1 Plains , really hate this card in the deck but crucible is just about in every wasteland deck in my meta, so have to adapt
Board:
2 Perish NO-RUG / Maverick
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir Against decks where discards are less useful and removal is better.
3 Phyrexian Crusader Mainly Zoo-matchup but also works in other matchups. Crusader can win this matchup himself.
3 Surgical Extraction Combodecks, dredge. Also see them quite useful against the control matchups.
2 Phyrexian Arena Serves as extra confidants against control decks like stoneblade, bug still and others.
1 Mortarpod Dredge matchup, NO-RUG and other Decks with lots of 1 toughtness creatures.
1 Umezawa's Jitte Against Zoo and other red decks with Ancient Grudge.
1 Manriki-Gusari Against stoneforge Decks.
I used to run Tidehollow Sculler but Ancient Grudge has started to pop up in alot of boards and Grudge takes them out as a bonus to attack the equipments.
Dont like Jöton at all, IMO he is bad at gy hate as he is to slow at it. Same with Nighthawk so much investment for a 2/3 creature.
More goodies for BW:
Nevermore - 1WW
Enchantment (Rare)
As Nevermore enters the battlefield, name a nonland card.
The named card can't be cast.
"By the law of Avacyn, the following thoughts, words, and deeds are henceforth disallowed."
Silence of Stone - 1W
Enchantment (R)
Artifact abilities cannot be activated.
I like the new Null Rod, on the plus side you can pitch it for Chrome Mox for those running it unlike Null Rod which cannot be pitched, it is SB card at least and could stop opposing swords as well.
As for Nevermore, an even better Runed Halo and a monocolored enchanment version of Meddling Mage is good, can be pitched for Chrome Mox as well. ISD is looking better for us as well.
I find nevermore to explensive and the WW cost sucks... Only card from ISD so far Im intersted in is Liliana.
Not been running any nullrod for long time doubt im gonna do it now neither. If affinty ever gets any bigger I rather run serenity and have board against Enchantress as well.
Riszo, how do you like the rituals?
been pondering for a long time for adding them to the deck
Cheerz!
They have been fine so far, but real test is gonna be when geting hold of Liliana. if they are mental missteping it, its 1 less misstep to care about later. Deck might change even more with liliana, puting own missteps into the deck again. What the ritual and mox does to the deck is making it have more unfair draws and more dead draws in the late game. With Chrome mox play I have won many games where i have been able to cast spells onet or 2 turn sooner. What I like about ritual is against zoo its possible for a turn 1 Phyrexian Crusader on the draw.
i'm gonna post my list asap.
I'm playing 3-4 Mirran crusaders as my finisher.
I'm worrying that the synergy with the rituals of far off like this.
Was also pondering on adding 2-3 celestial dawns.
I run 2 x Elspeth, 3-4 Mirran as with double W casting cost, and hymn with double black. any thoughts?
Not playing scrubland yet, cause i can't get my hands on them (playing 4x Tainted Field at their spot atm.)
edit: with ritual on the play i guess you go for thoughtseize(or IoK) + hymn?
I see nobody's playin gerrard's verdict anymore, reason?
Hymn>Verdict imo and in most people's opinions I would say.
Also, I you have the available money Thoughtseize is heaps better than IoK, if only for Jace.
I haven't played my list since batterskull but I run Basilisk Collar and it is awesome. The deathtouch pairs very well with Bitterblossom and my list also runs Elspeth with Confidant so the lifegain seems necessary at times.
I was toying around with Stillmoon Cavalier but was always on the fence. His evasion is great with equipment but his innate p/t sucks. What are y'alls thoughts?
@Surak: If you can't get Scrublands, Fetid Heath is probably the next best option with a curve like that. Don't play Ritual! Although filtering Ritual mana through Fetid Heath can be okay. Turn 2 Elspeth is cool, but don't get Dazed.
@Oiolosse: I've heard good things about Basilisk Collar as well, but I don't know what I would cut for it in my board.
@Paladin3056: Would you play Null Rod in this deck (with Mox, SDT, and equipment)? I wouldn't, and I wouldn't play Silence of Stone either. Nevermore is interesting as a different board plan against combo. If they think you're boarding in Duress and other various hand disruption, they might not have Chain of Vapor. If you play Sculler they'll probably bring bounce in though. I've moved Runed Halo in and out of my board and I don't know why I'd run this 1WW card over the WW one. I guess Nevermore has protection from Empty the Warrens and Show and Tell.