Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
Also, I don't see the point to the Earth Craft combo in this deck. It would be an entirely separate build in a completely different deck, if its even close to viable. Solitaire is about locking down the board, maintaining the lock and then getting to the win condition (lately in my locals people are winning with Emrakul). Diluting the decks ability to lock with fast combos that can easily be disrupted by QPM and Wasteland means you are running fewer cards to get to your lock. Its simply counterintuitive for what the deck is trying to do.
Wasteland doesn't do much since Earthcraft only untaps basics, and Qasali Pridemage can be answered with Sterling Grove/Replenish/Humility.
SquirrelCraft isn't a fast combo. It's a turn 5 combo if you have no mana acceleration.
Turn 4 with Utopia Sprawl. That's not fast in Legacy. Anyway, only one half of the combo is counterintuitive. Earthcraft speeds up the deck with Argothian Enchantress in play thus you don't have to depend on drawing or tutoring Squirrel Nest just to make use of Earthcraft.
Like I said before, the purpose of SquirrelCraft isn't to speed up the deck but to add a higher threat density while facilitating your plan A (which is setting up Confinement lock and finishing with Words of War).
I think SquirrelCraft is also very helpful if you're forced to run Humility. With Humility in play, you can only draw cards off of Presence, thus it makes it harder to combo off with Words or set up a Confinement-lock. SquirrelCraft in this situation becomes an immediate threat that is much harder to deal with if Humility shuts down some of your opponent's answers.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Hello,
I won yesterday with this list:
Lands
6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Sterling Grove
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Replenish
1 Words of War
1 Karmic Justice
1 Ground Seal
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
Sideboard
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Karmic Justice
2 Choke
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Aura of Silence
1 Runed Halo
1 Faith's Fetters
I played against:
Round 1:
vz. Agro elves, Won.
Very easy match, G1 and G2 without problem.
Round 2:
vs.GW Maverick, lose.
Won G1 whithout problem, but lost G2 and G3, becouse Thalia+Gaddock+Canonist.
Round 3:
vs.GW Maverick, Won.
Won G1 whithout problem and G2 too becouse he dosent have the same hates the other maverick.
Round 4:
vs.Nicfit, Won.
Won G1 whithout problem and G2 i won becosa an Faith'f Fetters on deed an won next turn.
Semi-finals:
vs.Affinity, Won.
Won G1 very very easy and G2 too, I think this match is something about 95% chance of win.
Finals:
vs.GW Maverick from Round 2, Won.
Won G1 whithout problem, G2 he dosent find Thalia+Gaddock+Canonist and I won.
My only problems are Thalia and Canonist, i thiking on playing with 2 humility against it.
Cya
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Well done!!!!
How do you plan to play humility with argothians and emrakul??
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
I think we need to play around it, becouse humility on board protected by sterling grove its like GG agains maverick.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Well, to be perfectly honestly how troublesome is Maverick a MU for players here? I've sparcely had issues against the deck. We can easily ramp to our hearts content with Sprawl/Growth, and they only form of removal they have is 1-2 Qasali backed by 3-4 GSZ. Because they're an extremely aggressive deck they rarely can afford to pay for Grass. Albeit Thalia is a problem card, however I consider her the biggest threat and they lack cantrip/tutors for her.
As for Humility, I consider it to be somewhat reasonable. Atm "Cheat," decks like S&T/SA/Reanimator are seeing more prevalence and having an out beyond O-Ring is conveinant, not to mention Humility answers Merfolk which is bound to see more play once M13 comes out. My only issue is that RUG is the forerunner in many metas and Humility neither answers nor benefits us in this MU.
Forlorn Egoist
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
After over 100 games of testing i came up with this list. It has a really good game against most of the meta decks. Of course, unfair decks are still troublesome to some point, but the matchups have improved alot in our favour. Especially Sneakshow and Reanimator are not that backbreaking anymore with Humility maindeck.
I consider Storm-Combo and Hive Mind to be the worst matchups by far.
In terms of fair decks i think RUG Delver is the toughest. A lot of prevalent decks like Maverick, UW Miracle, Stoneblade and Merfolk are a cakewalk.
Of course this is just my opinion - feel free to critizise.
How would you adress the current metagame with your sideboard?
Is Living Wish to slow for this deck to be good?
Enchantress
//Creatures (4)
4x Argothian Enchantress
//Enchantments (31)
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Humility
2x Mirri's Guile
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Runed Halo
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
4x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
1x Words of War
//Instants (3)
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Crop Rotation
//Lands (20)
8x Forest
1x Karakas
3x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
1x Taiga
4x Windswept Heath
//Sorceries (2)
2x Replenish
///Sideboard (15)
2x Aura of Silence
2x City of Solitude
1x Ground Seal
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Karmic Justice
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Runed Halo
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Enlightened Tutor
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JanoschEausH
I'm not sure how I feel about 20 lands. Seems a smidge light to me. I've played 22 for a while and sometimes feel like I want 23.
Why is the 3rd E. Tutor in the board? Journey is something I've thought about as O. Ring 5 and 6 but haven't tested myself.
Why no Green Sun's Zenith?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
anonymos
I'm not sure how I feel about 20 lands. Seems a smidge light to me. I've played 22 for a while and sometimes feel like I want 23.
Why is the 3rd E. Tutor in the board? Journey is something I've thought about as O. Ring 5 and 6 but haven't tested myself.
Why no
Green Sun's Zenith?
I feel pretty good with 20 lands actually. I have tested 21 with Horizon Canopy but that felt too much already. Most of the time i want to topdeck an enchantment. With 20 Lands you will miss some landdrops for sure but if you draw enough Wild Growth or Sprawl you should be fine. Mirri's Guile helps too!
The 3rd E. Tutor might aswell be another Graveyard hate like Wheel. I just like the flexibility it gives :)
I have considered GSZ for a long time and i think it might be real good but i dont know what to cut... The first thing might be Crop Rotation but i dont want to give up on the tutors since i would play 2 GSZ at minimum...
The Journeys were awesome all the time. I board them against RUG/Maverick/Aggro/Show and Tell Decks. They are really giving alot of extra turns.
In the current metagame i feel like flexibility is the most precious characteristic of this deck. In most games dealing with the board state is more important than stacking Enchantress effects. I think thats the reason why i like to play that much hate + tutors.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
I have no experience with Enchantress but when I first got into legacy I want'ed to build a UW replenish deck now with academy rector, and a bunch of one of enxhantments long with the usual cards. Anyone know of anything decent? this is what I've come up with atm, any suggestions are welcome.
4 Academy Rector
4 Replenish
4 Hesitation
1 Omniscience
1 Dream Halls
1 Opalescence
1 Decree of silence
1 Propaganda
1 Proper Burial
1 Parallax Tide
1 Parallax Wave
1 Parallel Thoughts
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Decree of Silence
1 Attunement
3 Enlightened tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
21 Land
I Don't know if dropping a bunch of enchaments and animating them with Opalescence and gaining life from Proper Burial then Replenishing is competitive but it seems like a fun thing so any help would be appreciated. Maybe I should add Auratog or Phantatog. I don't know I just now I'd like to abuse Replenish and Academy Rector as much as I can.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
PS: Sry for my bad english!
Hello guys Im very happy to said that I made it AGAIN, and won today in my weekly
legacy event, I made some changes and the final list is:
Lands
6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Sterling Grove
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Replenish
1 Words of War
1 Karmic Justice
1 Runed Halo
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
Sideboard
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Karmic Justice
1 Ground Seal
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Aura of Silence
3 Lignify(Against Thalia, Canonist and etc.)
1 Humility
I played against:
Round 1:
vz. Burn, Won.
Very easy match, G1 and G2 without problem, just lock him in turn 3.
Round 2:
vs.DragonStompy, Won.
Won G1 whithout problem and G2 too, but im VERY VERY luck becouse this is an realy hard to beat deck to us.
Round 3:
vs.GW Maverick, Won.
Won G1 whithout problem as usual, G2 I lost because he rush me, G3 I won in the last turn of the 5 turns count, very good match.
Round 4:
vs.Belche, Lose.
Lost both games in an roll, he stars and beclher me in turn 0, and in G2 I start and he goblin (20) me in turn 1 (no elephant grass in hand, but with leyline in table :cry:).
Semi-finals:
vs. Death and taxes, Won.
Won G1 very very easy and G2 too, I think this match is something about 95% chance of win.
Finals:
vs.Belcher from Round 4, Won.
G1 he misscount mana generation and lose the hand without finish me I lock he 2 turns latter, G2 he start and pass, I star with leyline in table and have a full hand to backup (with elephant grass) o I won.
Cya
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rxavage
I'm afraid such a list is not competetive. You open yourself too much for graveyard hate by relying so much on Replenish. I have tried a Enchantment Control List a long time ago which played 4 Opalescence and 4 Parallax Wave. It's pretty funny to lock your opponents but it's not competetive because there is too much hate running around and most of the decks are too fast (Nimble Mongoose...).
And btw: If you play Academy Rector you need a way to kill it at will or it will never happen.
@novatinhu: Im wondering why you play Emrakul maindeck. In my experience i never wanted to have it on my starting hand and i never wanted to draw it either. It's always better to draw another enchantment. Besides, it works against Replenish.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
@rxavage: Given that there are no Enchantresses in that deck, I would say it fails the first test.
You want the New and Developmental thread.
@ JanoschEausH: I run 20 lands in my build, but the Serra's Sanctum doesn't come online until Turn 2 at the earliest, so it's more like we're playing 18 lands. I occasionally feel the need for one more, but the deck also floods, so I don't know. I'm pretty comfortable with 20 lands. Crop Rotation seems like it would clash too much with the Wild Growths and Utopia Sprawls, pushing you to dump them all on one land so that you can Rotate the unenchanted one. Also, if it's countered, you still lose the land. I feel it's a good card in a deck like Aggro Loam or Lands, but I don't think I would want it here. Green Sun's Zenith is better than Living Wish. I might even argue that Worldly Tutor is better than Living Wish. The only benefit I see to running Living Wish is that it can grab a techy land or creature, like maybe a Peacekeeper in Game 2, assuming they sided out their removal. But, yeah, it's slow and it steers you into running a wishboard instead of sideboard. This thread never came to agreement on Emrakul, but I have been happy with the one-of in my build and will give you my reasons: 1) He ends games faster than the other win conditions, which is relevant when you're in a big tournament and you're going to Game 3 against a slow deck or a slow player. 2) He's great to drop off a Show and Tell or a Hypergenesis. 3) He's uncounterable. I once won a game where my opponent had CounterTop assembled with Force of Will backup plus an Ethersworn Canonist and a Rule of Law on the table. 4) He wins independently of your Enchantress effects. 5) He's a free Feldon's Cane that greatly reduces the chance you'll deck yourself when going off. 6) He improves your matchup somewhat against decks that want to mill your library with Brainfreeze or Painter + Grindstone. He has drawbacks, sure, but so do all the win cons.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Does anyone would tell me what are the benefits to run Humility than Moat? Maybe run both instead?
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
To back-up ESG Emrakul is a solid Enchantress win con. Actually, it is one of the best and arguably the best win con in MTG today. The pros to run him are numerous as he can win through disgusting board states, and swing loosing games. The cons... well I can think of only 1 it is :1::5: mana.
Let us not forget though Enchantress at it's heart is a ramp deck, and there are printed enchantments that do trick him into play.
On Humility it is very good at destroying other peoples plans. It makes Emrakul, Grizzy, Ethersworn, Thalia, Gaddock, Qasali... whomever all vanilla 1/1's.
The problem is it also makes your Argothian Enchantress a shroudless vanilla 1/1 disabling the decks engine.
Moat on the other hand leaves everything as is, and only stops non-fliers. So Emrakul, Grizzy, Delver, all can still swing in for damage not to mention that Ethersworn, gaddock, and Thalia can all statically mess with you. Frankly from my point of view Moat is a dead / sideboard card in today's meta, and certainly not worth the monitary investment in the cardboard.
In the end neither of them are great in traditional enchatress, and I certainly wouldn't waste slots on both together.
If I were to try and build a humility version I would look to try it with Opalescence to gain advantage via the timestamp rules of Magic.
If I were to play Moat I may play with at least (1) Emrakul of my own, or as long as traditional Enchantress splashes red for Words of War I'd see what Gravity Sphere could do in conjunction with Moat for you.
It just depends on which style of enchantress suits your play style / meta better.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
ESG - How did you get to 15 mana against Rule of Law/Cannonist, with Countertop (that would presumably counter all 1 mana enchantments like Wild Growth)? Did he not have any kind of pressure?
The idea that Emrakul "wins through hate" relies on the assumption that the "hate" doesn't stop our mana production. But to get to 15 mana realistically, we need a moderate to large Sanctum. But how do you get that Sanctum active through hate?
Consider the situation where your opponent has assembled Countertop and Canonist. That's obviously very bad news for any enchantress deck. Even if you got a few enchantments to stick before the Countertop wall came out, let's say, 5, you need 10 more lands to cast Emrakul. That's with Canonist hitting you, if nothing else. If you can land a Moat, an O. Ring or a Seal of Cleansing/Primordium through the Countertop, you can ease the pressure of the Canonist at least. If you can't, you can drop a land a turn.
The number of times you win that race because of Emrakul is gonna pretty marginal. It'll happen, but not that often. That's sort of the case with most of the "pros" to running Emrakul. They happen on occasion, and those in favor of Emrakul would argue that all these marginal benefits make up for the times that he's dead weight. I disagree; it's always easy to see the times that a splashy card saved you. It can be tough to notice when one more cheap, useful card would have pulled you out.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
@Spatula: I was playing Carpet of Flowers. He had a lot of islands in play. I also got a few Wild Growth effects down before CounterTop lock was online. I believe he Forced or otherwise countered the first two enchantress effects I tried to play, and then he dropped more lock pieces. He didn't know I was running an Emrakul. Unless they have discard, I generally try to hold my Sanctum until what I would call the fundamental turn of the matchup, when I'm going to get maximum value out it. To each his own, but I'll take Emrakul over Moat any day, mainly because of the flexibility of the card.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ESG
@Spatula: I was playing Carpet of Flowers. He had a lot of islands in play. I also got a few Wild Growth effects down before CounterTop lock was online. I believe he Forced or otherwise countered the first two enchantress effects I tried to play, and then he dropped more lock pieces. He didn't know I was running an Emrakul. Unless they have discard, I generally try to hold my Sanctum until what I would call the fundamental turn of the matchup, when I'm going to get maximum value out it. To each his own, but I'll take Emrakul over Moat any day, mainly because of the flexibility of the card.
Clearly the more powerful, decisive card here is Carpet of Flowers, not Emrakul. Gaea's Revenge would give oyu the game the same way, maybe even wthout carpet of flowers.
How can a card be flexible costing 15 mana? I don't see Emrakul as flexible, but as a powerful finisher. Still, the only reason to play it is if you are expecting to face Show and Tell decks one after the other.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
The two worst MU's for Enchantress are combo and control. In today's meta combo primarily revolves around resolving / tricking in some fattie to beat face with. Emrakul (as mentioned above) gives you something to trick in or Legend Rule with on an opponents Show and Tell.
Emrakul will also make a mockery of an enchantress lock in the mirror sporting the annihilator 6 . ...or any other lock with permanents (outside of Ensnaring Bridge-ish type cards). It also has evasion, and protection where Gaea's Revenge does not. Revenge will eat STP's all day because there is absolutely no other target for them. I would find it hard to believe that Countertop could not have found one to deal with it.
EDIT: IS SHOULD READ STP CAN NOT TARGET IT, BUT GOYF... COULD BLOCK. I DONT' SEE IT BEING THE SAME
vs. Control it's uncounterable, and when discarded it does not go away. It always in the deck somewhere threatening a win.
I don't play with Replenish because the meta is too fast. Is someone sweeps your board with mass enchantment hate they are likely going lethal anyhow.
If you have all of your stuff countered and you go for the back breaking Replenish I have found I just gave my opponent a target to pierce or daze (could be bad play though) ...but against RUG delver you don't have the time to wait.
So the fact that Emrakul shuffles your yard to your library is more of a blessing to builds I run than most others. I can see where that is a problem for mos though.
The fact is however is that Emrakul DOES in fact improve these two MUs alone, and only improves them more when played in conjunction with Defense of the Heart and / or Forbidden Orchard. I have won MANY games with Defense / Orchard never seeing an enchantress long before we would win normally.
It also makes the common combo hate we see look ...well stupid. "Ethersworn!? ...OKAY!"
@ Carpet of Flowers - Given the meta is primarily blue it is not a terrible call to main deck this card. It is AMAZING at racing taxing tempo counters Daze / Spell Pierce. ...and is a 1CC green enchantment. The exact thing the deck needs to dig most of the time. It also improves most combo giving you the extra mana to race their combo with our defense. It is a very powerful Enchantment.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
First of all, there's no reason to not run Replenish. Ever. Not running amazingly powerful cards because they can be Dazed or Spell Pierced makes no sense.
Secondly, arguing that Emrakul is good against control is pretty silly. In the game with Ethersworn Canonist and Carpet of Flowers, we're pretty obviously talking about post-board, in which case StP isn't a factor, and any fatty would function the same. A green fatty would also be tutorable with GSZ, which is relevant. Either way it would belong in the SB.
If you need to start running additional cards to make Emrakul better, you've lost the deck's focus. You might as well just play Sneak and Show at that point.
Re: [Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)
Hey guys, I just won a little local Tournament (17 Players) with my Enchantress Build above. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post656387)
The Meta was like: 5 Stoneblade (4 Esper), 3 RUG Delver, 3 Maverick (1 with Black Splash), 1 UB Tezz Control, 1 Reanimator, 1 MUD, 1 Geddon Staxx, 1 Elfball and me.
It was a kinda nice meta for Enchantress and NOBODY was prepared against it.
I wont give you a detailed Report, cuz most games are so grindy - i forget 70% of it.
Round 1: Against Maverick (Black Splash)
Game1: Could stack a Turn 2 Enchantress to the board which was followed by 2 others in the next turns. Overran him with card advantage.
Game 2: Lost because of a stupid mistake: He has a board of 2 MoR and one KotR(4/4). Mother is equipped with Jitte (2 Counters). I'm on 8 life with enough Enchantress Effects and am able to lock him in the next turn when i survive the next combat step. I have a Runed halo and name somehow "Mother of Runes". Of course he kills me.
Game 3: I can stick 3 Enchantress Effects and have a hand of 2x O-Ring, 1x Journey to Nowhere and 1x Runed Halo. Of course i find no white source.
Lost 1:2
Standings: 0-0-1
Round 2: Got a bye! Yehaw!
Standings: 1-0-1
Round 3:Against Esper Stoneblade
Game 1: I can stick Enchantress Effects, play Humility which makes his Geist of Saint Traft a useless 1/1, remove Batterskull with Ring and lock him out of the game until he desperatly scoops.
Game 2: Same story as Game 1. At some Point he wastes his Egineered Explosives to kill a lot of cc1 Enchantments. I simply Replenish. Best card in this deck. Seriously.
Won 2:0
Standings: 2-0-1
Round 4:Against RUG-Delver
Game 1: He keeps on telling me how i can't win against his deck. I can stick a turn 2 daze-proof Enchantress to the board, resolve another one later and lock it to simply end him. When RUG doesnt have a clock and you can resolve a Enchantress Effect Turn 2 its really easy to win.
Game 2: He kills me quick Turn 4 or so. Delver, Mongoose, Goyf and no Elephant Grass in sight.
Game 3: I keep a removal-heavy hand and he wastes his counters on Presence and the like. None of his creatures stay on the battlefield for long. This game is grindy and he refuses to scoop, so at some point i have to ask the person next to me if i could enlarge my play area because i have that many permanents. I Replenished 2 times for alot of value. Best card. Period.
Won 2:1
Standings: 3-0-1
Round 5:In this round there will be wild pairings (random). My opponent is Black-maverick-guy from Round1
Game 1: Lost Game 1 really fast to 3 Qasali Pridemage and heavy preassure.
Game 2: I can resolve a fast Argothian which seems to be the best indicator today for winning. His Qasali Pridemages (he runs 4) decimate my enchantments but the Argothian stays and Replenish ends it. His Dark Confidant helps me with winning this time by revealing a lot of high CMC-Cards.
Game 3: He Thoughtseizes me 2 times and takes 2 Argothian. But luckily he took a greedy hand with 1 Land and gets punished for it. I can rebuild while he stays on one land. After he missed his landdrop the 3rd time i knew i won and played it calmly until he scooped.
Won 2:1
Standings: 4-0-1
I'm 1st and get M13 Boosters n Stuff. This was my first tournament with this Deck. I expected alot more unfair decks like Sneakshow as everybody else.
Of course i had some luck with getting a bye and maybe my opponents made some mistakes but in the end i won against RUG, Maverick and Stoneblade which are all DTB.
