[Deck] Reanimator

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

I never said it was bad. I said there are better choices in the current metagame.

btw Intuition on bounce is unlikely, given that most Sneak Attack decks play 0-2 bounce spells in the sideboard. They do however play more counters than Reanimator does, which is irrelevant for the choice between the Angel and Archon.

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That may be so, and probably is as well :)

Regarding the Sneak Attack decks: I might be biased to my own personal feelings on how to build that deck (obviously); I have my board in 3's in order to be able to use intuition to find them as I feel that's the most consistent way. However, this is the Reanimator thread so that is neither here nor there.

The Angel also has a rather small body; giving Iona the edge there as well in terms of clock. (no edge to Archon there though)

I really like Sigarda not just for BUG and Pox but for Maverick and Stoneblade as well. We are really looking for another shroud-like creature for this deck and I personally think this is one of our better choices. While Archangel and Inkwell are perfectly fine for the Stoneblade matchup, both seem to be lacking against Maverick. The problem we have against Maverick decks is that they not only have removal and gy hate in the main deck, but they also have ways to stop us once we get a creature out. Archangel is lackluster because they can just swarm us and kill her in one blow and stabilizing after that is rough. Inkwell obviously isn't the best choice against a deck without islands. The new angel cannot be StP'd, Karakas'd, or Maze of Ith'd. It is also great against any decks that use edict effects. Sure she has a small body, but Sphinx is also a 4 turn clock and her low mana cost is not terrible when Reanimating.

On a side note, I would not bank on her against Emrakul because last time I checked we have a hard time stopping a 15/15 body regardless of what we do or do not have to sacrifice in the process.

The difference between her and Sphinx is, that Sphinx just wins games by getting reanimated. Canadian can still race against Sigarda, but not against Sphinx.

I wouldn't want to cut any card for her. Not because she is bad, but because I don't get any additional value out of her.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...lgrvj2f_en.jpg

This actually seems like something to discuss.

It's biggest flaw is it dies to removal. That may be it's only drawback. It can function as a Jin-Gitaxias and still beat down on a 3 turn clock. The lifelink is also great against aggro and burn. It seems like a hybrid of Jin with a Sphinx (the lifegain)... great against control and very strong against aggro because of it's fast clock and lifelink.

Upon first glance:

+ You take 2 less damage when you use Reanimate on it, compared to Jin-Gitaxias
+ You can draw 7 in response to removal
+ The drawing is controlled, so you don't have to worry about decking yourself, as you do with Jin-Gitaxias
+ The lifelink helps against aggressive decks, as mentioned
+ 7/7 means a 3 turn clock as opposed to Jin-Gitaxias's 4 turn clock, as mentioned

- Still vulnerable to Swords/Path/Karakas (but can be somewhat mitigated by being able to draw in response)
- Can't be exiled to Force of Will (What extra Jin's are often used for)
- Doesn't Mind Twist the opponent as Jin-Gitaxias does (said ability is often what leads to most concessions, in my experience)
- Not as good with Reanimate (Though quite nice with Animate Dead/Exhume)

I think in a 3 Jin build, I might drop one Jin for one Griselbrand.

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Originally Posted by Darksteel

- Doesn't Mind Twist the opponent as Jin-Gitaxias does (said ability is often what leads to most concessions, in my experience)

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I understand the mind twist is just game over for the opponent but my question is, if Griselbrand survives the other players turn, which Jin would have to do for the mind twist to activate, how often can you lose? Getting to attack with a 7/7 flying lifelinker which means 7 more cards, if you so desire. It's extremely hard to imagine the other player winning in that position.

I agree, having a 7/7 lifelinker is certainly favorable, especially if you can draw a lot of countermagic off the first 7 with his ability. However, the opponent being able to keep their entire hand can be a problem, sometimes.

With Jin, you put them in top-deck mode for the rest of the game, while you keep drawing 8 cards a turn. You'll generally always have countermagic for the one spell they play a turn, at that rate. And if you manage to get another reanimated fatty onto the battlefield, then they have to rip multiple answers, which is much harder when Jin-Gitaxias is in play.

I'm not denying that "Grizz-Gitaxias" puts you in a favorable position, it's just that I think Jin puts you in a better one, generally. Of course, I'll definitely try the demon though.

At least at first glance, it seems much better than Jin. It's a 7/7 body. It has evasion. It Lifelinks. It kills in 3 turns. It outraces a Batterskull.

You can draw cards at instant speed whenever you need them, meaning the real kicker is that you don't have to spend the 7 life if you don't have to. You can basically just sit back and force them to draw the answer... and if they do, draw until you can stop it.

Another application of this is being guaranteed cards regardless. How often do you see /Reanimate Jin Gitaxias and have it Swords before your end step only to be back where you started? Griselbrand basically guarantees that you will draw at least 7 and likely it will be able to protect itself.

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Originally Posted by Darksteel

I think in a 3 Jin build, I might drop one Jin for one Griselbrand.

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That is my thought too. Sometimes I have summoned Jin but still been unable to attack due to the creature(s) my opponent has out. Flying, extra Toughness and lifelink helps get around that.

The reason why Jin is so good is that he makes CA AND puts the opponent into topdeck-mode. Without the latter the chance of them finding an out is significantly higher and he wouldn't see that much play. Being able to pitch him for a Force is also something that happens a lot!

We will see, if Giselbrand is the real deal. I'd like to play a demon so badly, but I am not sure if he can compete with Jin.

Going back to Sigarda, I think I would replace Empyrial for her. Empyrial has the same clock and proves to be lackluster against decks like Maverick and BUG where Maverick can overrun her and BUG has edict effects to surpass shroud. Sigarda is still good in the matchups where Archangel was good but picks up where Empyrial lacked. The fact we have a creature that has evasion and cannot be hit by StP, Maze of Ith, and Karakas is pretty good in my opinion.

I can see Gristelbrand along side Jin as maybe a one of. I really like the evasion + lifelink. We could use him as anitaggro instead of replacing Jin. The ability to draw 7 is just an extra ability to me. An amazing extra ability.

Thoughts on this?
http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/da...mm190_card.jpg
With Top, Brainstorm, Jace all able to tilt the odds of getting these in on top of your library during draw, it isn't far fetched to imagine these as dependable consistent forces in a deck.
So far only Time Walk, a 5 damage spell for :r: and a Condemn effect for :w:, both at uncommon. The stage is set for at least an uncommon cycle and a mythic cycle, potentially with power-9 level cards at mythic.
Think this will be something to earn a place in Reanimator, or at least guaranteed, a threat to play against?

We don't play Jace. We don't play top. Why should we play a Miracle card that doesn't do as much as the other cards we are playing? Just for the small chance to hit twice? This card is nuts, but not in this deck.

Please don't turn this thread into a general Avacyn Restored discussion...

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Originally Posted by Snap_Keep

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...lgrvj2f_en.jpg

This actually seems like something to discuss.

It's biggest flaw is it dies to removal. That may be it's only drawback. It can function as a Jin-Gitaxias and still beat down on a 3 turn clock. The lifelink is also great against aggro and burn. It seems like a hybrid of Jin with a Sphinx (the lifegain)... great against control and very strong against aggro because of it's fast clock and lifelink.

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It'd be interesting to rebuild those Magus of the Jar/Reanimator decks with a better draw engine and auxillery threat in the form of a 7/7 Flying, Life Link. It's kind of insane considering those animation spells that give you haste for a turn and sacrifice the creature EOT gives you like 21 cards off this guy. It also makes Burning Wish a really attractive tutor for this deck, because you can basically draw 14 cards and Tendrils for the win if you commit to an acceleration package.

I really don't think Jin has a place in this deck anymore after this guy, he dodges STP and still draws cards which makes him more resilient, and I'm pretty sure a 7/7 flying, lifelink can give Mind Twist a run for its money in terms of shit the opponent doesn't want to have to deal with.

Yeah, pretty sure I would just drop Jin entirely in favor of Griselbrand. The demon resolving is pretty much guaranteed to win the game, whereas Jin offers your opponent a small window of opportunity to pull out of the situation. Jin also often -required- you to follow up with another creature to win if they had a Goyf/Batterskull/etc, whereas this guy is also able to finish an opponent off by himself.

I don't like demon much. If you reanimate him and fail to find protection you will be in worse position than with jin.

reanimate + ability + fetch = -8 -7 -1 = 4 life + full opponent hand

He is situational. It will suprise me if he replace jin in all copies.

If you cannot connect with Jin (Karakas, Maze), you can easily reanimate another creature to get the beats done (due to the cardadvantage and lack of answers by the opponent).
If you cannot connect with Giselbrand, you are in a worse position.

Therefor I don't think Jin will be dropped completely in favor of the Demon.

But is Griselbrand enough to make Reanimator viable again? Game 1 is already very good for us, I'm thinking after sideboard. How awesome would it be if there was a card (some sort of permanent) that did something like "cards in your graveyard cannot be targeted by an opponent's spells or effects". That would get rid of Surgical Extraction, Purify the Grave, Scavenging Ooze.

Reanimator is still viable (mind the DTB/DTW status).

Despite that, Giselbrand doesn't change the position of the deck against the hate it is facing.

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Originally Posted by Vicar in a tutu

But is Griselbrand enough to make Reanimator viable again? Game 1 is already very good for us, I'm thinking after sideboard. How awesome would it be if there was a card (some sort of permanent) that did something like "cards in your graveyard cannot be targeted by an opponent's spells or effects". That would get rid of Surgical Extraction, Purify the Grave, Scavenging Ooze.

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Ground Seal