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Edited --
Time stamp is 4:50 at this link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149453626
He takes game 1 against eldrazi but gets absolutely obliterated post board. It looks like he is playing C/g titanless.
6 hrs ago...rough. I live in asia so dont get to see most stuff on twitch. I watched zotmasters first game and then passed out. What version of post was he playing? Any details on the matchup?Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
That was me, with the following C/g list, modified slightly from TheBoozeCube's:Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage, Karakas, Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Glacial Chasm, Wastes
4 Crop Rotation, Ancient Stirrings, Expedition Map, Warping Wail
3 Candelabra, Pithing Needle
1 Spatial Contortion
1 New Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek, Old Emrakul, TKS
2 Ugin, All is Dust
Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Spatial Contortion, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
1 Dark Depths, Silent Arbiter
I got 9th at 5-2, with losses to Eldrazi and Esper True-Name and wins against BUG Leovold, Esper Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Storm, and Topless Miracles. That last one is still a good matchup.
Match reports, abbreviated since I wasn't taking post-game notes:
Round 1: BUG Leovold
Game 1: Multiple Hymns empty my hand and put All is Dust where it feeds a Tarmogoyf. Wasteland destroys the Maze which otherwise did very well against the Goyf, and I lose in two turns.
+1 Dark Depths, +2 Surgical, -1 Needle, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: Hymns hit again, but I punk him out with Marit Lage.
Game 3: He fails to find Force of Will for Ugin, and Ulamog cleans up.
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade (Ben Friedman)
Game 1: We both durdle for a while, but I durdle to Emrakul.
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Pithing Needle, +3 Krosan Grip
Game 2: Multiple Thoughtseizes slow me down and I don't topdeck a bomb before Snapcaster + Collective Brutality steals my last 2 life. Meddling Mage appears and names Krosan Grips that are stuck in my hand.
-1 Krosan Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion
Game 3: A long grind. Maze of Ith holds off a Stoneforge that would have carried a Sword of Fire and Ice. Eventually resources are worn down after he Snap-Thoughtseizes away my Emrakul. I shuffle my graveyard in, topdeck a Crop Rotation for Eye, and get Emrakul again.
Round 3: Eldrazi
Game 1: I get run over, having not kept a hand that could have done anything against that deck before turn 5.
-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Spatial Contortion
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Silent Arbiter, +1 Dark Depths
Game 2: I mulligan to a 5 that contains Land, Maze, Candelabra. After some deft maneuvering involving copying Crystal Vein with Vesuva, Maze + Silent Arbiter staves off the horde long enough to land Ulamog and then Emrakul. Ratchet Bomb gets to clean up two Chalices, two Scions, and an Endless One on 7.
Game 3: I play tricks with Glacial Chasm and Thespian's Stage to wind up at 2 life with a Stage/Chasm and topdeck Expedition Map for Dark Depths.
Round 4: Storm
Game 1: I am on the draw and opt to play T1 Cloudpost, T2 Vesuva instead of T2 Glimmerpost which would have put me out of range of the T3 Tendrils kill.
-1 Spatial Contortion, -2 Maze of Ith, -1 Ulamog, -3 Pithing Needle, -2 All is Dust
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +2 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Surgical, +1 Dark Depths
Game 2: He keeps a no-land Probe hand but finds no lands with it. I set up Stage/Depths and he can't combo off on his last turn.
Game 3: He Duresses me on T1 and takes a Map because my post-mulligan hand doesn't have much action. Fortunately I topdeck Sphere of Resistance, TKS, 2x Surgical, and Bojuka Bog which are enough.
Round 5: Eldrazi *** Camera Match ***
Available here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149453626
4:50:55 - Opening hand drawn 2x Cloudpost, 2x Forest, 2x Crop Rotation, Spatial Contortion?
4:52:50 - I have a choice between holding up Crop Rotation or going whole-hog on Cloudposts. I go with the former to avoid a blowout. Since my opponent fails to draw land for a while I end up natural-ramping anyway.
4:53:52 - This Needle is on Wasteland, since the plan is to Rotate for Eye and cast Emrakul and every nonbasic is necessary.
4:56:10 - Sideboarding, same as before:
-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Spatial Contortion
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Silent Arbiter, +1 Dark Depths
4:56:20 - The decklist sheet. Being a math graduate student, I earn money by teaching math classes - in this case, Calculus II. I printed my decklist on the back of an unused worksheet I assigned to my class because I have hundreds of those things and there's no sense in not reusing perfectly useful paper with one side still blank.
4:58:30 - I'm contemplating a one-Forest hand that has Map, Candelabra, Ratchet Bomb but no way to stop a large creature. I decide that the payoff of drawing a land is not good enough and mulligan.
4:59:15 - This hand has 3 Vesuva as the only lands, and still no way to deal with a large creature. I'm basically mulliganing to Maze of Ith here, besides which copying his lands with Vesuva is dicey as I don't want to copy Tombs or Cities or Temples.
5:00:04 - I scry away Crop Rotation because I expect Chalice and need to draw Cloudposts.
5:00:20 - The tank here is to decide between holding up Rotation as a response or to deploy the Map. Since I expect needing to get Glacial Chasm at some point, I play the map since Chasm shouldn't be played on one land and also should not be gotten with Crop Rotation if at all possible.
5:00:45 - "I think 12 Post has it, completely" while the Chalice is coming down. If I had been able to hear this at the time I would have laughed out loud.
5:01:35 - Now that a Wasteland and a Chalice have appeared, the original plan of Map -> Chasm is suicidal. In fact Map -> almost any nonbasic is bad since the land just gets blown up because no Pithing Needle will be in play. However, Map -> Thespian's Stage still puts me at +1 mana for a while since my opponent will not proactively Wasteland it (because I'll just make it into a Forest), and if I draw a desired nonbasic (e.g. Maze) then I can copy that land with Stage in response to a Wasteland. And if, somehow, he taps the Wasteland and I have Dark Depths then I just win on the spot. The +1 mana could become important in order to Grip + 1cc spell in the same turn, though the game did not develop that way, and I might not be able to afford the 2 mana for Map at any other time. Map -> Stage is absolutely the correct play here. The long tank here is me working through this logic.
5:03:26 - Unfortunately that plan gets smashed by the arrival of Reality Smasher. If I don't chump with an Eldrazi Scion, then a topdecked Grip on Chalice followed by Crop Rotation -> Maze no longer saves me, and that is the only line that buys a turn through an active Wasteland (if I don't chump, I go to 6 and the non-Smasher creatures total 6 power). The chump must happen at the expense of the Stage. You can see how at the time I already had forgotten about the Thorn...
5:04:00 - Yes I know (now), the Crop Rotation can't actually be cast here because of the Thorn. My opponent and I both missed this fact, though it would not have changed the direction of the game.
5:05:54 - See above. I did get a warning for these.
5:09:50 - This hand has Wastes+T1 Candelabra followed by T2 Maze, has Ratchet Bomb/Krosan Grip to answer Chalices, and Stirrings to find cards. Yes, it has no green sources, but I can lock two creatures out of combat to buy time to find lands, and I can still answer Chalice without green because of the Ratchet Bomb. So I decide to keep. I think it's slightly more correct to mulligan, but that is easy to say now that the course of the game is known. If his hand had been TKS + Smasher + Chalice and nothing else then this hand wins pretty much every time, and that's a hand he would definitely keep given how game 2 played out. I would not keep this hand against any deck other than Eldrazi.
5:10:48 - Stream stress is for wimps.
5:11:02 - See, Cloudpost off the top. Things are already coming together.
5:13:18 - Nuts. The game is effectively over at this point.
5:13:37 - Not Glacial Chasm. Therefore scoop.
Round 6: Esper True-Name
Game 1: I resolve an Ugin that sweeps away a Deathrite and a Stoneforge, then a TNN. A second TNN follows and picks up a Jitte and a Batterskull. I have a Tabernacle in play and incorrectly search for Ulamog to take out the equipment. I get hit down to 2 and then drained by Collective Brutality.
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Warping Wail, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion
I am expecting Meddling Mages, so I bring in another Spatial Contortion.
Game 2: I have to play Chasm tricks against 2x Deathrite in order to stay alive, but he has triple Force of Will for the relevant spells. Bad luck here, but a better plan for True-Name Nemesis is in order.
Round 7: Topless Miracles
Game 1: I ramp hard and dump some Eldrazi after he burns a Force of Will on a Warping Wail that would have countered Entreat the Angels.
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Warping Wail, +3 Krosan Grip
Game 2: I mulligan to 4 and despite having access to 40 mana through Posts and Candelabras do not topdeck a bomb before dying to angel tokens.
Game 3: He fetches a lot of basics so I play conservatively in anticipation of Back to Basics. I have a hand full of threats though, and a Map for a third Cloudpost allows the Eldrazi parade to crush him.
Observations
1) Dark Depths definitely belongs in the sideboard.
2) Warping Wail gets sided out a lot, though I faced less combo than I expected.
3) A third Maze of Ith and an additional Forest would nice if a reasonable cut can be made.
4) Candelabra is insane.
5) A lot of opening hands are borderline. This could be just a fluke, but an additional filtering effect could go a long way. I'm thinking 1 Oath of Nissa or 1 Sylvan Library.
Changes
-1 Warping Wail, +1 Maze of Ith
Thanks for reading. I'll answer any questions.
Congrats on the finish!Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
I definitely agree on the third Maze. I tried cutting one not long ago and really missed it. The third copy makes a big difference with both Ancient Stirrings and natural draw. Another Forest would be nice, but I think having the Wastes in that slot is more important in the current meta to fight W/R D&T. And I can't see another slot for it.
I'm surprised at how often you're boarding out Wail. I'd have kept it in vs both BUG and Esper to eat Deathrites and Stoneforges. But I've also been having difficulty deciding what to board out lately. Did you miss them at all?
I'm curious how TKS performed. How often did you see/cast it? Did you ever Eye for it? Did it make a noticeable difference?
As far as filtering, I think Sylvan is better. With all the Chalices running around, 1G might be the superior choice. Another possibility I've considered (but never tested) is Scroll Rack, which has the advantage of being colorless. Another option might be to move a second Spatial to the main or run a 1x Dismember. It won't smooth your draws, but it does give you more early removal that's castable by marginal hands to help give you more time.
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Thanks for the write-up! Seeing you crop rotate into tabernacle that first game was pretty sweet. Its too bad it didn't turn out well in the other games. Getting 9th is pretty sweet, congrats on the finish!
I played a few round tonight and found myself repeatedly mulliganing because of one landers. We had a short 3 rounds, and I went 1-2 overall using mono-green post (sorry for the formatting).
2 [ROE:174] Ancient Stirrings
1 [OGW:184b] Wastes
4 [MRD:280] Cloudpost
7 [UNH:140] Forest
1 [OGW:126] World Breaker
3 [MBS:81] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [VMA:208] Eureka
2 [ZEN:201] Expedition Map
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
2 [AVR:226] Cavern of Souls
1 [C14:285] Bojuka Bog
2 [FRF:1] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [TSP:281] Vesuva
1 [DRK:114] Maze of Ith
1 [CSP:145] Dark Depths
2 [OGW:12] Warping Wail
2 [ALA:218] Relic of Progenitus
2 [ODY:251] Moment's Peace
1 [GTC:248] Thespian's Stage
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
4 [M12:188] Primeval Titan
2 [ZEN:172] Oracle of Mul Daya
1 [EMN:6] Emrakul, the Promised End
3 [RTR:231] Pithing Needle
2 [WTH:86] Veteran Explorer
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [LEG:252] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 [ULG:98] Crop Rotation
SB: 1 [MLP:34] Endbringer
SB: 1 [MGDC:39] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [MM2:99] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [DRK:109] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [V12:7] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [MBP:33] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [OGW:12] Warping Wail
SB: 2 [SHM:66] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [C15:189] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [ODY:251] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [PTC:46] Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 [ROE:1] All Is Dust
Round 1, Grixis Delver 0-2.
G1: I got destroyed by t1 delver, then t2 flipped the delver off a force, then git probes into therapy and then wastelands my cloudpost. T3 he fetches, plays another delver and shreds my hand and bolts me end of my turn. T4 he untaps into another land and a big fish after probing me again.
G2: I start with a glimmerpost on Pithing Needle. His t1 is delver. T2 I play a forest into an ancient stirrings that finds a maze of ith. He flips delver off of bolt, then git probes and therapies me again. I untap, play a maze, and a veteran explorer, and eat a bolt to the dome eot. T3 he untaps and plays a vortex which seals the deal. I durdle with maze of ith a bit but he plays more threats and has bolts to help him race. He also stifled my maze of ith twice.
Grixis delver feels like a horrible matchup. My list in particular doesn't seem especially great, how does the straight C/g matchup feel?
round 2: Br-reanimator, 2-0
These games dragged out but began with me having a crop-rotation, maze, or karakas in hand which kind of kept my opponent from really doing anything. I drew relic and surgical extraction game 2 and beat down with a vet explorer for awhile through a bloodmoon. I eventually drew big stuff and killed him.
round 3: goblins...1-2
This matchup felt very swingy. Game 1 I won the die roll and played a needle on wasteland with a glimmerpost. He had t1 goblin lackey. I don't remember what exactly happened but it snowballed quickly. I have more outs than he has lackeys but didn't see any. Game 2 I lead with forest into a stirrings and find a cloudpost. He leads...with a turn 1 lackey. T2 I play a cloudpost, which he wastes on his turn but I crop rotate it away into another post b/c my hand is very land light and I don't want to get wasted again. T3 I vesuva my post and then spatial contort his lackey on his turn. I think I untapped with ugin mana available and that was it.
G3...He leads with turn 1 lackey. That is 3 games in a row. I have needle for wasteland and he connects with lackey. Stuff happens fast and I never see any removal (post board, 3 warping wail, spatial contortion, maze of ith, even any of the 3 moments peace would have let me live, but just didn't get any of it.
I definitely missed not having the full three warping wails main. They are great cards.
My bastardized version seems to be missing something, though it does fantastic against midrange and control decks, and some of the combo decks...I just got wrecked tonight.
Any thoughts on this list and what I could switch-up? I will have a single candle at some point, though who knows when it will get here. I'll be playing titan post for the foreseeable future, though I might switch to the UG version at some point just to give it a try. Do you guys think the UG version is better than mono-green titan?
Can you say more about Round 3: Eldrazi with the chasm/stage shenanigains, how does that work? Also, why wastes over cataracts!?Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
Wastes still taps for colorless mana through Blood Moon, which is important for being able to cast Spatial Contortion post-board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prdgychild
It's pretty 50/50, I think. Having a full 4x maindeck board wipes, plus more cheap (non-Titan) tutors for Maze and Tabernacle goes a long way. The full set of Ancient Stirrings in particular makes finding any of those things much easier. Topdecking Ancient Stirrings also helps recover from heavy discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
Warping Wail is a very strong card here, since it answers Pyromancer, Deathrite, and discard. Access to multiple Candelabras really makes a difference against Delver generally, both for untapping Mazes and to hedge against Wasteland. Unless I have Needle out, I always play very conservatively with my Crop Rotations and save them for protecting Maze/Cloudpost.
Between those two, I think UG is probably better right now. Mono-G Titan was hurt the most by the ban. It doesn't have the colorless density to really rely on Ancient Stirrings to smooth out its draws like Cg. UG gives you access to Brainstorm. It also relies on Candelabra much less, which is important if you have only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
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I agree about the necessity of basic Wastes. Regarding Warping Wail, I only ever boarded out one copy if any. Usually I was in a situation where I wanted to bring in multiple copies of a high-impact card (Grip, Surgical) and needed to make a cut somewhere. While it's possible that I overvalued the sideboard cards and underestimated Deathrite or Stoneforge or Wail, I think the sideboard cards impact the match much more than a Warping Wail could:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
1) BUG - I prefer to use Needle to fight Deathrites since if a Needle on Wasteland gets Decayed before you cast a bomb then it effectively did nothing, whereas if a Needle on Deathrite gets Decayed then you still saved 4 life or deprived them of some mana. So I like Surgical as an answer to Wasteland/Force/Hymn and 2x copies are needed. Dark Depths also warrants bringing in.
2) Esper - Maze already answers anything Stoneforge can really do except put equipment on True-Name, which Warping Wail cannot address but Krosan Grip can. I also feared Back to Basics so I doubled up on Grip. Also Spatial Contortion since Meddling Mage can shut me down. Warping Wail doesn't do anything about that either.
3) Miracles - Nothing that Warping Wail does is really necessary, but Krosan Grip for Back to Basics is (I think) absolutely required.
I only saw TKS against Storm where it was one of the key elements of winning the match (I took a Chain of Vapor that would have bounced the Sphere that was keeping him down, forcing him to Grim Tutor for one). Since C/g has no Leylines to protect the hand, a critical mass of disruption seems necessary so that you can play off the top of the deck and TKS helps that by being maindeckable. I put it in an open slot because I saw a lot of Omnitell at the previous tournament and wanted something useful to put in off of Show and Tell. It also buys good time against small-ish creature decks in general. I did not Eye for it in this event, but I have in the past in order to snipe Prices out of a Burn player's hand while I sat behind Glacial Chasm. I think it could be cut, though I would want to draw it more often before passing judgment.
I also would favor Sylvan Library, but the problem I'm concerned with is hands with one mana-producing land that are otherwise solid. An Oath might make those hands keepable while Sylvan does not. With Chalice being as prevalent as it is, though, I have to give the edge to Sylvan.
Wastes taps for colorless under Blood Moon, so I can Spatial Contortion a Magus or Warping Wail a Painter or cast TKS. The Chasm/Stage shenanigans I alluded to were (as I remember):Quote:
Originally Posted by Prdgychild
1) At 6 life with a Stage in play as a Cloudpost I play Glacial Chasm and sacrifice a Maze.
2) On my next turn I pay 2 life for Chasm and play a Dark Depths off a topdecked Map. I need to copy Dark Depths on the end of my opponents' turn after next, so on the end of his next turn I copy Chasm with Stage since I am now at 4 life and can't pay the upkeep on my turn, but need a Chasm in play to survive combat.
3) I pay 2 life for the Stage/Chasm and sacrifice the original Chasm to its cumulative upkeep. The Stage is now an untapped Stage/Chasm. I play a second Pithing Needle on Wasteland as protection.
4) On the end of my opponent's turn I produce Marit Lage. Untap and attack for lethal.
Usually the trick is to copy Chasm with Stage on your upkeep in response to the Chasm's upkeep trigger, then don't pay for the original Chasm. That would have been incorrect here as it would have left the Stage/Chasm tapped and unable to copy Dark Depths.
Any tips for titanless or C/g matchups vs UR and Grixis Delver? I did a small
I've played about a dozen matches over the last few days and have not won a single game. These matchups seem brutal. With grixis its always a turn 1 delver, or a git probe into a cabal therapy, followed by a turn 2 wasteland if I don't play a basic. People also seem to be back on stifle, which is wrecking me. I had a map stifled, and then a maze stifled, and then a snapcaster flashing back a stifle on another maze activation. It was B.R.U.T.A.L. Even when I get a needle up on wasteland it doesn't seem long before I get blown out. One game I needled t1, then removed a delver on my t2 with a wail, but then he plays another delver and a gurmag. I got bolted a couple times to the face for good measure that match.
I also, for whatever reason...am constantly mulliganing with this deck, in paper and online (I swear xmage hates this deck..). My build has 28 or 29 lands depending (minus chasm, dd, tabernacle, maze, and eye) there are still 23-24 lands but I constantly brick with either a single mana source or zero. That obviously doesn't help with these matchups...
Any advice navigating these two matchups would be great. I never seem to have problems with esper control, or czech pile...just the two above delver variants.
Thanks,
As you already mentioned, these are really hard matchups. Carpet of Flowers and Trickbind are nice here. Normaly i won over S&T or hardcast Titan over Cavern.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
Do you have a recent list I could peruse for UG? I have a lot of the cards for it but have seen diff variants throughout the last few years, some with trickbind, some with fow or without, and some with flusterstorm main.Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo4488
My local paper meta had almost eliminated delver decks altogether because of all the stompy decks and other bad matchups they had. Now they are coming back and its been rough. The decks I play usually have decent delver matchups...this is frustrating lol.
Same here. Not so much delverinos around the last 2 years. List.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
Now i would change:
-3 Top
+1 Needle (up to 4) (Wasteland is your biggest enemy in every turn of the game)
+2 UG Nissa
-2 All is Dust
+2 Carpet of Flowers (never really bad!)
Congrats, I saw you at the top tables so I knew things must have been going well. Sorry that you finished salty 9th, but I'm glad that you ended on the profitable side of the 5-2 breakers. With 113 people, I was 4-2 going into the final round playing for 20th. I personally have moved away from 12post for the time being. Still playing Ugin/Emrakul, just by un-conventional means...*cough* Eureka *cough*. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by k_omega
Curious why run repeal in your list without Candelabras? Have you thought about switching them to Song of the Dryads instead if you need removal?Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo4488
I am going to be doing some testing today with my newer UG build at our local proxy tournament. It felt fairly solid last week.
I would love to hear more about that Eureka list.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
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Stifle is one of the better cards against us, much more effective than straight countermagic. This is one of the areas where running the full set of Candelabras makes a big difference. The ability to get extra Maze activations each turn with Candles spreads their Stifles thin.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
Depths definitely comes in for both of these matchups, since they have no real way to answer the token once it's out (although I guess we need to watch out for Stifle now too). Ratchet Bomb is great too, as is Silent Arbiter.
With Grixis, save Warping Wail for Pyromancer. Deathrite (if they run it) is low priority, as it's their slowest clock. Tabernacle is pretty strong here too because they're so land-light, even if they don't have a Pyromancer out (although I wouldn't tutor for it if they don't). There's not much you can do about Gurmag Angler besides Maze or a board wipe. If you don't have Needle out, save Crop Rotation to Stifle their Wastelands; you could even use it to Stifle their Stifle on Maze in an emergency.
UR is easily the most difficult Delver matchup because it's basically a burn deck. To the extent possible, I always hold up at least one Crop Rotation to get Chasm/Glimmerpost in response to Price once I've established a board presence. For the same reason, I try to hold on to Vesuvas and Glimmerposts as long as I can in order to get the most lifegain from them. Trinisphere also hurts them badly.
If your hand has a Forest, Cg can almost treat any Ancient Stirrings as additional lands when you're deciding whether to keep, especially on the play. It is very rare that you won't hit at least one land off it. It's riskier to do so on the draw in G1 because of possible T1 discard, but not unreasonable either. After you've gone below 6, almost any hand with Forest + Ancient Stirrings is a keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
On that note, make sure to play the full set of Ancient Stirrings in Cg. No exceptions. From the very beginning, I designed the deck specifically with Stirrings in mind. It is the best card in the deck, not close. Also make sure to play the full set of Maps, so that you can consistently find them with Stirrings (if you're looking for a specific land and don't find it, anyway).
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Ok, I got a crazy idea from Jarvis Yu's Lands article on CFB today: 1x SB Ancient Tomb. Basically, it lets us turn Forest + Crop Rotation into a T1 Sphere of Resistance or Warping Wail against combo, which is especially sweet on the draw.
This might be going too deep, but it's interesting to consider. What do y'all think?
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These are some great suggestions that I'll try implementing. I keep upping the stirrings and want more maze too so this makes total sense. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
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The tomb idea is interesting. Maybe give it a try and let us know how it goes?
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I played a UG list built around crop, tomb, WW, ratchet, SnT, plat, ... when WW came out (i posted the list here). i liked it very much because you can catch the opponent of guard with crop - tomb very often. The acceleration is also very welcome. It helped cast titan or overcome thalia, daze, pierce, revealed chancellor of annex, trini, etc. it's also a waste magnet. Though, i mostly t1, t2 crop-tomb against counter light or no counter decks. You definitely don't want to do it against a delver deck, except if you are in a pinch.
Oh and back then i also liked how it played with top if you had it in your opening hand: t1 top + look often set a t2 snt. But those were the good ol' days.
write you list thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
It's here (dunno how to post thread link?): #5153 or http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post952242Quote:
Originally Posted by caprino
I even got a thumbs up from Rock that time (never happened to me before...) :cool:
I played and tweaked it extensively for some time, but then moved on to other variants. It was more vulnerable against magus/moon, since ratchet usually wasn't fast enough and i never included a basic wastes.
I have been tweaking this build for awhile per my teammate Jeff Carpenter's advice and suggestions. Success has been overwhelming online, but I haven't taken it to a 5+ round event yet:
// Lands
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [TSP] Vesuva
3 [MR] Cloudpost
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [V12] Glacial Chasm
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [EXP] Misty Rainforest
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
3 [TSP] Forest (4)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [GPX] Primeval Titan
2 [JU] Krosan Wayfarer
1 [ROE] Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
// Spells
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [CN2] Show and Tell
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [JU] Living Wish
3 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Vesuva
SB: 1 [MR] Cloudpost
SB: 1 [GPX] Primeval Titan
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [EMA] Nature's Claim
SB: 1 [MMA] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [M15] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 [M15] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [DK] Maze of Ith
Tuning could be adding in some fog-effect creatures/spells or warping wail, both of which fit well in the meta slots.
Living wish I've found to be necessary with combo expanding so explosively due to no more miracles. Maze is intended as an infect answer, but could also be dawnstrider (weak to stifle and explosive starts), moment's peace (weak to explosive starts, not Living Wishable), or Walking Ballista (none of the listed weaknesses)
If anyone's interested, I started a 12 Post discussion group on Facebook. All the other archetypes seem to be doing it.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/136526860247905/
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If I only own one candle do you think this would work for me? What would you put in the hole left by missing one candle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
Trinket Magex1Quote:
Originally Posted by Roweboater
I often do only x1 candelabra with trinket mage builds. The choice for x2 is mostly for color fixing
I actually love this idea. One thing I found as a struggle was holding rotate into bog as a "hope I can get em" play, but that always got discarded with duress or therapy before I died. Sometimes on the draw turn 2 Sphere is too slow. I may test this out!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
Rock Lee,
Is tabernacle a deliberate exclusion bc of all the combo? Is it just too slow / not effective?
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Tabernacle is possible to be added, but only as an answer to empty the warrens. I usually hinge on moment's peace in its slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by nimkee
Rock, interesting build. It got me excited for the first time since the top ban. I had mixed succsess though. At first I won several games and I was pleasantly supprised. Then I got wiped by magus and sure enough, empty the warrens and some fast aggro. With no board wipe and no fog effects you are left only with chasm, if you cannot get chasm on the board you are dead. Moreover, even if you get chasm down, you are dead if they drop a magus. I lost two games to Magus because I simply don’t have any answers outside Ulamog. I do not even have access to a basic island which would allow a SnT through magus.
- How are you beating Magus?
- Why so much artifact/enchantment hate, is it a meta call?
- Any general pointers on how to play this wish build, hand keeping, etc.?
- Could you give us some insight into how you are boarding with this puppy?
- How about a Silent Arbiter as a wish target?
P.s. Oh and could you explain your Renegade Rallier build, which you mentioned prior to the top ban. What was the idea behind that?
Why do you prefer Krosan Wayfarer over Exploration?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I really like the Living Wish in this list - especially without the Sensei's Divining Top.
I tested it out too and had some similar issues. Afterwards I tried smtg closer to the more classic ug build with maindeck repeals and it helped a lot. If they get the chalice on one AND a bloodmoon it seems sort of gg. Im playing a mono green titan build so I have the benefit of 5 main deck forests plus fetches. Trade offs though....it would be nice to drop a titan off snt!Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
I really liked trinket mage in testing. It was also my first time with a wishboard...I really missed the full board, and am convinced that I messed it up.
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I haven't tested the list (it's just not my playstyle, wouldn't work for me), but it definitely got me thinking about Living Wish and if it could work for my deck and what cards i want in a wishboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
About this list:
1. There are very many disenchant effects, feels too many for me - but my deck usually beats Blood Moon and Chalice, maybe this deck needs that much? Still feels like a lot.
2. There are also very many graveyard hate effects: 4x Crop, 3x Relic maindeck and then still 3x Surgical and 1x Faerie in the board. Not sure about that either, but maybe it's ok. (How good is this against Storm? You probably don't get killed by Past in Flames that much, but they have other ways to kill you.)
3. If you mostly think about Infect with Maze of Ith, that should almost certainly be a Walking Ballista. I think Walking Ballista is the perfect card for a wishboard in general, it's the only reason i'm considering Living Wish for my build - it's overall a borderline card for the maindeck and often feels underwhelming, but in some situations it's just the best card you can have (i have definitely searched for Walking Ballista with Eye of Ugin before when i had the mana for Emrakul), including situations in matchups where you would definitely board it out if you played it maindeck. Ballista also doubles as the wish target when you have unlimited mana and just need a Wincon (sometimes it will be better than Primetime). Maze of Ith against Infect is not great - just precombat Vines and your Maze is completely useless. (And Ballista is also an answer to Magus, that seems to be an issue?)
The first thing i did with my build was putting 1 Cloudpost and my 1 Walking Ballista into the sideboard and adding 2 Living Wish, and then i started thinking about other options. Tried that today on xmage for the first time and went 5-0 so far, but it's far too early to tell if that works and how that deck should look like.
Very thoughtful, thanks for sharing. LIST please😎?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshrac82
This is what i played on xmage today:Quote:
Originally Posted by prdgchild
61 cards:
Lands (25):
2x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
3x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Savannah
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
3x Windswept Heath
Creatures (15):
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Eternal Witness
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Spike Weaver
1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells (21):
3x Mox Diamond
3x Brainstorm
2x Crop Rotation
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Sylvan Library
2x Living Wish
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Pithing Needle
2x Toxic Deluge
Sideboard (15):
1x Cloudpost
1x Walking Ballista
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Faerie Macabre
2x Flusterstorm
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Golgari Charm
2x Krosan Grip
1x Rest in Peace
Still the same core i always play (and nobody else plays :tongue: ). But i'm still experimenting with some things:
- I want Ensnaring Bridges maindeck, because Omnisneak is a really bad matchup and that gives me a better chance. And because Bridge seems better preboard against fair decks (with less Abrupt Decays in the format, many fair decks don't have a maindeck answers to Bridge).
- I usually don't play Needle, but realized it's probably good positioned right now. There could definitely be more than just 1 Needle, but there is no room.
- About Brainstorm: Without changing too much otherwise, i tried 3 different approaches: Either play Brainstorm, or just play more other stuff (3rd Tracker, 3rd Toxic Deluge, 2nd Needle), or play Chalice. And i'm still not sure what works best - and didn't find a good cut for the 4th Brainstorm. Probably wrong this way.
My wishboard is very small so far, i didn't want to change too much. Without Wish, my sideboard was:
-1 Cloudpost
-1 Ballista
-1 Faerie Macabre
+1 Swords
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Ethersworn
Hi guys, I was testing Living Wish build since the ban of top. It is somehow similar to RockLee's list, and I had some success with it (I don't have much time to test even online).
// Lands
2 Forest
2 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Primeval Titan
// Spells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Brainstorm
3 Show and Tell
3 Living Wish
4 Exploration
2 Moment's Peace
2 Pithing Needle
3 Expedition Map
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Cloudpost
SB: 1 Vesuva
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 2 Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Walking Ballista
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 3 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
The big difference here is exploration. Exploration give us some fast start and it compensate the downside of living wish beign sorcery. It also makes our brainstorm less "clunky" if no shuffle is available, because if we draw 2/3 lands they don't become stuck in our hand as we're able to play them booth. Still, exploration in late game is very bad, and we don't want to play loam, so I've yet to decide if it's worth the inclusion.
Living wish is a very "modern" (not the format) card, it allow us to be more flexible and the 2 mana investiment shouldn't be a concern. It also can save us from surgical effects some time.
I feel like the deck needs more to compensate the lack of top, I was thinking to make it faster with mox, lotus cobra and more fetches reducing the total CC... I will test this route. But Living wish is a good alternative meanwhile.
(sorry for my english)
http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/ramunapexcavator.jpg
Well hello there!
I'm pretty sure that goes straight into my deck - GSZ-able Crucible is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
The main reason i cut Crucible from the deck was because it didn't do anything on its own. This is at least a creature and can block. Dies to more removal, but i think that's not that relevant for my creature-heavy build - might be more relevant if you think about playing it in a creature-light build.
card looks sweet. what kind of landbase can support warping wail? would wail ever go into a build with primetimes or is it reserved for more colorless buildsQuote:
Originally Posted by Leshrac82
I immediately thought of the Kassari builds with Primeval Titan, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Green Sun's Zenith.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18766&iddeck=142320
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14008&iddeck=103075
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13226&iddeck=97077