[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

They were really good in testing. I liked them vs. Shardless BUG/Jund. If you Disfigure their DRS and Stifle a land, both decks are too clunky to play magic with our curve. But, I never faced those two decks and only used it vs. combo, where it is okay, but not stellar. They are surprisingly not good vs. TrueBlade, where I prefer to just have a lot of removal and tempo them out that way since they're not running Lingering Souls any more. That is actually better for us, because Souls + Snapcaster was much harder to beat than just RIP.

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

They were really good in testing. I liked them vs. Shardless BUG/Jund. If you Disfigure their DRS and Stifle a land, both decks are too clunky to play magic with our curve. But, I never faced those two decks and only used it vs. combo, where it is okay, but not stellar. They are surprisingly not good vs. TrueBlade, where I prefer to just have a lot of removal and tempo them out that way since they're not running Lingering Souls any more. That is actually better for us, because Souls + Snapcaster was much harder to beat than just RIP.

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What happened to Dan just running sinkhole in the board?

In a BUG deck like Daniel's, what would you sideboard out against death and taxes?
Force and daze? Cant really see what else we want to dismiss?
Playing jund i have been adviced to go control against D&T and side out Goyfs (as RIP goes in). Not sure about this here though..

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Originally Posted by Neffy

In a BUG deck like Daniel's, what would you sideboard out against death and taxes?
Force and daze? Cant really see what else we want to dismiss?
Playing jund i have been adviced to go control against D&T and side out Goyfs (as RIP goes in). Not sure about this here though..

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I think I'd take out Goyfs and Shamans and go for the Delver Plan. Goyfs won't reach anything with all their tricks and Shamans are shut down by RIP or Revoker. Turn one Delver with counters for their removal is our best shot in Match.

There are two ways of winning the match-up: tempoing them out, or playing a control role. Personally, I feel like tempoing them out to be quite difficult (especially without DRS and Goyf), although it is the route Dan prefers. He would never side out creatures though.

I board out my counterspells and bring in Golgari Charm effects and cheap removal, and hope to overwhelm their Mother of Runes and establish a Liliana or Sylvan/Hymn to get ahead. I've found the strategy to work quite effectively, unless they get out Wilt-Leaf Liege in which case it can be quite rough. This is the advice I was given by a longtime D&T player and it has been working for me. It means you will need to devote 8+ slots in your sb to removal though (which is fine since removal is so good vs. all the fair decks).

Just picked up 3 TNN for 100 bucks. Thinking i'm going to replace tombstalker in my list.

Is it me or is this guy really starting to heat up

I'm unimpressed with nemisis in this deck. We already have better options to attack with and if he is being held back on defense than we most likely lost or a goyf would, usually, have done the job just as well. He cost three which is almost uncastable in most games. I like to cast multiple spells a turn and leave mana up for brainstorms/decays/spell pierce/deathrite activations and casting 3cc creatures is not a part of that play.

Also UU is a pain in the dick when I want BB as well.

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Originally Posted by kingsey

Just picked up 3 TNN for 100 bucks. Thinking i'm going to replace tombstalker in my list.

Is it me or is this guy really starting to heat up

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its you.

This deck needs so much BB and now you are adding more UU

In a deck that plays no basics and 4 underground seas its tough to get uu or bb?

When you also want G available for decays and goyfs it is… and we also play 4 wastelands. In a format full of wastelands I am always looking at how I can cast all of the spells in my hand and the hymn that I might draw next turn. With UU you would ideally like to leave up at least U to spell pierce/stifle/spell snare/brainstorm during their turn and not just tap out to cast a "vanilla" beater. Vendillion Clique can at least be cast EoT and is not useless against combo decks IMHO clique is the better card if you want a 3cc evasion dude.

On a separate note I played bug with snap casters and the full set of spell pierces tonight against MUD and Reanimator. I never felt behind and only dropped a couple games on the night, if we would have boarded I think I would have been even further ahead. I played:

4 delver
4 deathrite
4 tarmogoyf
3 snapcaster

4 abrupt decay
4 brainstorm
4 hymn
4 ponder
4 force of will
4 spell pierce

1 lilliana
1 sylvan library

19 lands

The deck was a blast to play all night long and I always had options to advance my game state. On several occasions I was able to live the dream and flashback a hymn with a snapcaster, it seems to be way to hard for decks to recover front that.

I hope to be able to play on Sunday.

Thoughts?

Along with 4 DRS too right?

I'm not personally vested in TNN working in this shell, but I'd rather not write off actual testing because it has UU in the cost. :smile:

It could easily be done while dropping hymns for 1cc discard but at that point you are most likely just better off playing death blade and suiting up the nemesis like everyone else.

And it costs 3!!! Tombstalker cost 2 that's why we play it!

I guess what i'm not understanding is why we have to drop hymn

Turn 1 DRS
Turn 2 Hymn and leave 1 mana up for eot brainstorm or stifle or spell pierce or wasteland them (Pick your favorite )
Turn 3 now tap those seas for U not B and drop TNN with daze/fow back up.

I think where I'm attracted to TNN is the complete not giving a shit about Rest in peace.


*ninja!
Stalker does cost "2" but at the same time he can hurt your goyf already on board, or take your DRS feet out from under him. He also eats STP like a boss, TNN does not.

You can list all of the hands you want but you are still stressing your mana base by needing UU. I am always strapped for mana with bug and your mana draws are never perfect.

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Originally Posted by kingsey

I guess what i'm not understanding is why we have to drop hymn

Turn 1 DRS
Turn 2 Hymn and leave 1 mana up for eot brainstorm or stifle or spell pierce or wasteland them (Pick your favorite )
Turn 3 now tap those seas for U not B and drop TNN with daze/fow back up.

I think where I'm attracted to TNN is the complete not giving a shit about Rest in peace.


*ninja!
Stalker does cost "2" but at the same time he can hurt your goyf already on board, or take your DRS feet out from under him. He also eats STP like a boss, TNN does not.

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Tell us how it goes after extensive playtesting.

Besides, golgari charm is one of our best sideboard cards. Its going to kill your own TNN that you spent 3 mana on.

Im in the belief that Tombstalker is a good card for us atm, especially against DT etc, but if we run DRS, Goyf and stalker, Rest in Peace is a pain. How do you play if you know it is coming in after Game 1?

Keep abrupt decays back for it? Or keeping the counters for it? Do you side out some graveyard-reliant dudes?

Play 4 Decays, 3 Charms and 1 Grip. RIP won't stick around for long. I also tend to board out at least 1 Tombstalker.

Does anyone play snapcasters in their lists?

I test the thread all this month, and Im writting a primer for a web in my country right now (In spanish, sry, but the cards and decks are in english. I will post the article here, for show the keys to sb against each tier)

Im pretty sure and comfortable about this 75;

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [A] Tropical Island
4 [A] Underground Sea
1 [A] Bayou

// Creatures
4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
3 [C13] True-Name Nemesis
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [NPH] Dismember
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [NPH] Dismember
SB: 2 [ZEN] Disfigure
SB: 1 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce

TNN is better than Stalker by far imo. Is the best weapon in control/aggro-control decks that I have ever seen. This deck is made for be proactive, and beat fast in the begining of game. For finish the final lives or put the game in stand by when are losing (specially stopping a Stoneforge), this 3/1 is gorgeous. I have the doubt of cut the Dismember and play the fourth TNN, but looks bad against decks with mana denial, and currently I preffer the 5Th removal card to win the DRS war. Obv, Dismember > Disfigure. You can kill Tarmos, priceless.

Regards

Sadly running 3x golgari charm loses its potential when it takes out your own TNN.
Also i would say Disfigure is so much better than Dismember in the current meta with DT and creature decks. We have decay for goyfs, and Disfigure wins goyf any day.
I played the Hymnstalker version yesterday and it was soo much fun and soo much good to go turn 1 DRS, Turn 2 hymn with daze back up and then waste. Tombstalker was mean also! people dont expect him! If he sees more play (i met him in a Grixis deck) Dismember might be higher on my wish list. but for know i go 1 Disfigure main and two board. It won me the mirror which was a Nemeseize version.