[Deck] Solidarity

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

@Darkenslight



Has anyone put up good results across the boars in years? Benthetenor seems to believe that his best defense is seeing how far back he can reference so the rest of us just forget what is happening currently. No person has a Solidarity list that wins access the board. Including me, you , benthetenor, Richard Garfield or Santa Claus. No one.

If you actually read anything that I have wrote you would see that when I side in the cloud of faeries I have been siding out the resets, due to the fact that I want to go off as early as possible and when you only have 2-3 lands reset vs cloud are very similar except cloud plays much better with snap. If you think a natural order for Runic That on turn 2 gives you enough steam to win than more power to you also remember that they can side in any number of storm hate from thorns to cabal therapies.

I have said before that I love solidarity due to its instant speed ability and its ability to auto win on any slow hand from any deck across the board. This only stopped when counterbalance became a thing and now counterbalance is almost non existent.

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Okay then, allow me to rephrase: Is the opportunity cost of Cloud of Faeries (not untapping all your lands, sorcery speed) worth the decreased chance to win on the opponent's turn?

(Incidentally, that SB plan makes sense, if you do play it like this).

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

Okay then, allow me to rephrase: Is the opportunity cost of Cloud of Faeries (not untapping all your lands, sorcery speed) worth the decreased chance to win on the opponent's turn?

(Incidentally, that SB plan makes sense, if you do play it like this).

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Going with an engine of snap/snapcaster/cloud is super consistent and pretty redundant with existing combo pieces. I am only suggesting it against a deck like elves or dredge, where it is pretty much just a race to see who can win first. If elves goes off with glimpse and casts a bunch of spells it doesn't really matter if you only have 1-2 lands in play because you need a pretty perfect hand to hijack a storm count on turn 2.

With cloud of faeries you can just untap with two lands and give it the old college try and use there draw step to kill them. I have been bringing in all brain freezes as well so double casting brain freeze is not that difficult of a task.

Ok dude, you win. You refuse to listen to anything I have to say and it's pretty clear that the reason you want to push the deck this direction is not to win, but because you want to have fun, which is absolutely not a good reason to hijack a thread in the "established decks" section. You refuse to consider the fact that every card and configuration that you've suggested have already been tested and rejected as just being worse than what came before or has come since, and for some reason you seem to think that you're the first one to ever have any of the ideas that you've presented. I am not the arbiter of this deck, and I was not kidding when I said I really don't care what you do. Knock yourself out. But until you put up results, everyone else should ignore you.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Besides, against a deck like Elves Candelabra is bad. We have a bunch of ways to kill it if you play it beforehand, and postboard we can bring in Needles and Null Rods which are just brutal, and savage any random SDTs you might play as collateral damage. Compare to dealing with Cloud, where we have, uh, Abrupt Decay... which does jack and shit to the important part of both Snapcaster and Cloud. Also, since the deck isn't super reliant on Time Spiral or somesuch and plays maindeck Snaps and Remand instead of FoW as a counter, it's way, way less cold to Teeg. Spiral Tide is super cold to Teeg. Forcing GSZ=2 is not a place where you want to be vs. Elves. You throw away cards, they just ask "can I win" every turn and then you're out of cards and dead either to beatdown or because one of those I Win cards gets through.

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You board in Needle and Null Rod against Spiral Tide and think it's "brutal"?
You also think Spiral Tide is "cold" to Teeg?

Sorry to disrupt this thread, but these are just short-sighted assumptions based on limited experience, from what it seems.

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Originally Posted by benthetenor

Ok dude, you win. You refuse to listen to anything I have to say and it's pretty clear that the reason you want to push the deck this direction is not to win, but because you want to have fun, which is absolutely not a good reason to hijack a thread in the "established decks" section. You refuse to consider the fact that every card and configuration that you've suggested have already been tested and rejected as just being worse than what came before or has come since, and for some reason you seem to think that you're the first one to ever have any of the ideas that you've presented. I am not the arbiter of this deck, and I was not kidding when I said I really don't care what you do. Knock yourself out. But until you put up results, everyone else should ignore you.

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I don't want to win. You seem so hurt about a tier three deck

If you want people to play solidarity you need hype. You need excitement. You need allure. I haven't seen as many posts in this thread in such a short period of time in years. People are actually reading about what high tide does.

We are comparing engines, mixing it up, and having fun with it.

I haven't been this excited about high tide in a long time as I don't think spiral tide is very good either, and judging from numbers neither does anyone else.

Test. Innovate. Argue. Have fun. Don't quit.

We like you way too much for you to just take your toys and leave.

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

You board in Needle and Null Rod against Spiral Tide and think it's "brutal"?
You also think Spiral Tide is "cold" to Teeg?

Sorry to disrupt this thread, but these are just short-sighted assumptions based on limited experience, from what it seems.

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Having options instead of dead cards helps in any match up. Removal for needles sounds fine to me.

And every combo deck has issues with teeg. Can't cast turnabout or spiral? He needs to be removed before you can win.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Having options instead of dead cards helps in any match up. Removal for needles sounds fine to me.

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Which dead removal/cards? I don't know which decklist you are playing, but current lists neither play "removal" maindeck nor do they play too little other useful sideboard cards (pretty much all of them run discard alongside a single Teeg).

And why are Needle and Null Rod "brutal"? They most likely only shut down Candelabra (if played, mostly 3x) and nothing else, while slowing yourself down. SDT is on the fringes and the deck still works pretty well without those cards, considering that Elves dies to a Brain Freeze.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

And every combo deck has issues with teeg. Can't cast turnabout or spiral? He needs to be removed before you can win.

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Getting rid of Teeg is not as hard as you believe it is. SnT has access to its namesake card as well as Cunning Wish for bounce in the Omniscience builds. Solidarity and Spiral Tide have access to wishes and bounces as well. Storm has removal/bounce, if they want to. Reanimator doesn't care at all. Not to mention real blue combo decks feature counterspells.

tl;dr: PNeedle & Null Rod != brutal; Teeg != final nail in the coffin

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

Which dead removal/cards? I don't know which decklist you are playing, but current lists neither play "removal" maindeck nor do they play too little other useful sideboard cards (pretty much all of them run discard alongside a single Teeg).

And why are Needle and Null Rod "brutal"? They most likely only shut down Candelabra (if played, mostly 3x) and nothing else, while slowing yourself down. SDT is on the fringes and the deck still works pretty well without those cards, considering that Elves dies to a Brain Freeze.


Getting rid of Teeg is not as hard as you believe it is. SnT has access to its namesake card as well as Cunning Wish for bounce in the Omniscience builds. Solidarity and Spiral Tide have access to wishes and bounces as well. Storm has removal/bounce, if they want to. Reanimator doesn't care at all. Not to mention real blue combo decks feature counterspells.

tl;dr: PNeedle & Null Rod != brutal; Teeg != final nail in the coffin

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I was referring to the deck trying to disrupt spiral tide. If I am playing 8 cards that need to come out of my main deck I would rather have pitying needle than swords to plowshares against a deck that plays candle.

All of the decks you are referring to need to bounce teeg to win. It is not hard to find a bounce but you still "can't" win with him on the board.

Zombie said "deck like Elves". Dunno why you answer and how I should know that you mean something different than what he and I were referring to.

I also don't know what you don't understand about the "counterspell" part. Yep, you cannot win with Teeg on the board unless you play Solidarity (Thread!), but you have the choice to pro-actively and re-actively deal with him. That's not what you call "cold to".

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

Zombie said "deck like Elves". Dunno why you answer and how I should know that you mean something different than what he and I were referring to.

I also don't know what you don't understand about the "counterspell" part. Yep, you cannot win with Teeg on the board unless you play Solidarity (Thread!), but you have the choice to pro-actively and re-actively deal with him. That's not what you call "cold to".

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I didn't mean to be condescending and nothing in my post said anything about counterspells.

It also sounds like zombie does not play a stock elves list. Maybe he plays abrupt decays or viridian shaman main? Nobody knows but him.

If your logic is I have to counter/discard a card than you are pretty cold to it. Like delver decks against blood moon. They are cold to the card and have to rely on countering/discarding it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bring in good cards against decks with counterspells.

You are also cold to elves new combo hate: runic thar. You have to have counters for every natural order and protect them from discard.

And why are we arguing about candle? No one suggested we play that card!

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

I didn't mean to be condescending and nothing in my post said anything about counterspells.

It also sounds like zombie does not play a stock elves list. Maybe he plays abrupt decays or viridian shaman main? Nobody knows but him.

If your logic is I have to counter/discard a card than you are pretty cold to it. Like delver decks against blood moon. They are cold to the card and have to rely on countering/discarding it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bring in good cards against decks with counterspells.

You are also cold to elves new combo hate: runic thar. You have to have counters for every natural order and protect them from discard.

And why are we arguing about candle? No one suggested we play that card!

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Abrupt Decay main is not stock for a reason, and that is that it'd be stupid. Viridian Shaman main is stock and smart (though I'd probably side it out even vs. Spiral Tide), esp. given all the Jittes flying around taped to True-Shits' arses.

What I'm saying, what Elves have postboard?
4NO=>Thar (doable T2 esp. with modern builds)
4GSZ=>Teeg
4 Glimpse of Nature
Teeg himself
4 Therapy, maybe 5-6 total discard depending on build
2 Thorns/Thalias
Maybe a couple Pithing Needles as extra.

Nearly every turn I can just ask if you're okay with your life becoming hell, or if it's okay that I'll just win the game then and there. Probably not, but I doubt you can have enough for all that and still have resources left to kill me, esp. if you're throwing Forces at some of this. All the while you're being beaten down by little pesky buggers.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Abrupt Decay main is not stock for a reason, and that is that it'd be stupid. Viridian Shaman main is stock and smart (though I'd probably side it out even vs. Spiral Tide), esp. given all the Jittes flying around taped to True-Shits' arses.

What I'm saying, what Elves have postboard?
4NO=>Thar (doable T2 esp. with modern builds)
4GSZ=>Teeg
4 Glimpse of Nature
Teeg himself
4 Therapy, maybe 5-6 total discard depending on build
2 Thorns/Thalias
Maybe a couple Pithing Needles as extra.

Nearly every turn I can just ask if you're okay with your life becoming hell, or if it's okay that I'll just win the game then and there. Probably not, but I doubt you can have enough for all that and still have resources left to kill me, esp. if you're throwing Forces at some of this. All the while you're being beaten down by little pesky buggers.

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This is exactly what I would imagine you would do and why I think that just making the deck a turn faster is the correct line of play. In the same way that ANT/dredge can just out speed hate, I mean, it is a hell of a lot better than just diluting the deck and trying to counter all of the hate.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

I didn't mean to be condescending and nothing in my post said anything about counterspells.

It also sounds like zombie does not play a stock elves list. Maybe he plays abrupt decays or viridian shaman main? Nobody knows but him.

If your logic is I have to counter/discard a card than you are pretty cold to it. Like delver decks against blood moon. They are cold to the card and have to rely on countering/discarding it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bring in good cards against decks with counterspells.

You are also cold to elves new combo hate: runic thar. You have to have counters for every natural order and protect them from discard.

And why are we arguing about candle? No one suggested we play that card!

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What's the point in replying to a post if you ignore the post it is referring to? That's just taking parts of a post and ignoring their context. Apparently you didn't even read the things I quoted initially.

If you are still in the dark: He talked about Elves and in such a discussion one cannot take into account personal decklists which are pretty far from the norm. He talked about Candelabra and how good Needle and Null Rod are. That's what I commented on.

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Viridian Shaman main is stock

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No he is not and 3 NO are the norm. By bringing in Needle/Rod you are worsening your own gameplan for almost no value.

Anyway, I'm outta here. This is getting ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

What's the point in replying to a post if you ignore the post it is referring to? That's just taking parts of a post and ignoring their context. Apparently you didn't even read the things I quoted initially.

If you are still in the dark: He talked about Elves and in such a discussion one cannot take into account personal decklists which are pretty far from the norm. He talked about Candelabra and how good Needle and Null Rod are. That's what I commented on.


No he is not and 3 NO are the norm. By bringing in Needle/Rod you are worsening your own gameplan for almost no value.

Anyway, I'm outta here. This is getting ridiculous.

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Thanks for stopping by.

If someone wants to play viridian shaman main in their meta than let them. If someone needs to remove useless crap from their deck and brings in needles for candles, than I think they are making a good love as useful>useless.

And finally, why are we arguing the sideboard strategy of elves vs spiral tide?!?

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Thanks for stopping by.

If someone wants to play viridian shaman main in their meta than let them. If someone needs to remove useless crap from their deck and brings in needles for candles, than I think they are making a good love as useful>useless.

And finally, why are we arguing the sideboard strategy of elves vs spiral tide?!?

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Probably because I mentioned them in response to people telling you to just play Spiral Tide because lulz sorceries.

As far as H3llsp4wn's comment on Shaman maindeck: 60 high placing decks from thecouncil. Shaman maindeck in half of them, in the board in a good number more.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

Probably because I mentioned them in response to people telling you to just play Spiral Tide because lulz sorceries.

As far as H3llsp4wn's comment on Shaman maindeck: 60 high placing decks from thecouncil. Shaman maindeck in half of them, in the board in a good number more.

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Lol, some people just need to chill out.

I don't want to play spiral tide and if I did I would not play candles because I wouldn't want to turn on abrupt decays and needles in addition to combo hate. I did like to play spring tide back in the day though.

I prefaced my idea of cloud of faeries as a test and people pretty much lost it. What is this world coming to??

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Lol, some people just need to chill out.

I don't want to play spiral tide and if I did I would not play candles because I wouldn't want to turn on abrupt decays and needles in addition to combo hate. I did like to play spring tide back in the day though.

I prefaced my idea of cloud of faeries as a test and people pretty much lost it. What is this world coming to??

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Because this deck is predicated on being instant-speed spells and lands. There is literally no other deck that can go off in an opponent's turn, in response to them winning in Legacy. Adding CoF stops that from happening, EVER.

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

Because this deck is predicated on being instant-speed spells and lands. There is literally no other deck that can go off in an opponent's turn, in response to them winning in Legacy. Adding CoF stops that from happening, EVER.

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It is a sideboard plan I am TESTING. Every heard of a transformational sideboard? Ever heard of sideboarding to improve bad matchups?

I know what reset tide does. Change the resets for cloud game 2 and gain a turn! You don't get match points for winning on their turn. This is a game and we want to win no matter who's turn it is.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

It is a sideboard plan I am TESTING. Every heard of a transformational sideboard? Ever heard of sideboarding to improve bad matchups?

I know what reset tide does. Change the resets for cloud game 2 and gain a turn! You don't get match points for winning on their turn. This is a game and we want to win no matter who's turn it is.

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But we don't care about your testing with COF, even if they are in sb. Please this is not constructive for this deck and is out of the tread. I already said what you can do if you like the springtide deck! :) good luck ;)

This is what I am planning on building after playing High Tide for a while I want to try this "win at instant speed on your opponents turn" thing out. The sideboard is just a best guess from looking at the other decks in this thread. Thoughts?

Instant (38)
2x Brain Freeze
4x Brainstorm
3x Cunning Wish
4x Force of Will
4x High Tide
4x Impulse
3x Meditate
1x Peek
4x Reset
4x Snap
3x Thought Scour
2x Turnabout

Land (18)
12x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn

Creature (4)
4x Snapcaster Mage

Sideboard (15)
1x Chain of Vapor
4x Disrupt
1x Echoing Truth
1x Meditate
2x Mindbreak Trap
1x Rebuild
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Tolarian Winds
1x Turnabout
1x Twincast
1x Wipe Away