Congratz! Can you share your decklist?
Printable View
Congratz! Can you share your decklist?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanoschEausH
@caiomarcos: Please go back a page and reread 1-6 of the reasons I gave JanoschEausH for why I play Emrakul in my list. There is no other single card in Magic that fulfills all those roles. Again, I'm not trying to change people's minds. This thread heavily debated Emrakul until people got tired of it. Some people like the card; others don't. I'm fine with that. Use what you've had success with, and I'll do likewise.
@JanoschEausH: Congrats on your win. It's always fun to surprise the local store with a different deck.
I will actually follow your advice and play Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in my board the next tournament. It would replace Crop Rotation. I figured most of the time i discarded Crop Rotation due to hand oversize or Confinement. If i discard Emrakul that way i get value off of it at least.
In 2 games in the tournament i really wished Crop Rotation was Emrakul for a fast and safe win.
To make that all work i will replace Humility with Karmic Justice. Humility makes no sense with Emrakul anymore and against the unfair decks i can still board it. On the other hand, every Stoneblade list plays Engineered Explosives against Tribal right now. I think Karmic Justice represents a good form of hinderance against EE.
My List is now as follows:
Enchantress
//Creatures (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
//Enchantments (31)
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Karmic Justice
2x Mirri's Guile
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Runed Halo
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
4x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
1x Words of War
//Instants (2)
2x Enlightened Tutor
//Lands (20)
8x Forest
1x Karakas
3x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
1x Taiga
4x Windswept Heath
//Sorceries (2)
2x Replenish
///Sideboard (15)
2x Aura of Silence
2x City of Solitude
2x Ground Seal
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Humility
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Runed Halo
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
I will play this next week at a big 150-Players Event. I hope it was not too rash to remove all those Griselbrand-hate from the board. Hopefully all those RUG and Stoneblade Decks keep Griselbrand at bay for me :)
Hey guys. I'm looking to play Enchantress at the upcoming Starcity (Buffalo). I was wondering if you guys would help me tune a list.
What I'm starting with:
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Serra's Sanctum
5 Forest
2 Plains
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of War
1 Humility
2 Runed Halo
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Crop Rotation
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Replenish
This is rough off the top of my head (missing a few cards). I can update later, but this is essentially the skeleton. What do you think? What meta cards should I run? What should the board look like?
Your list is rather standard so I won't comment too much on it. If you have access to 1-2 I'd consider running Karakas as it will help against cheated creatures as well as having synergy with Crop Rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
As for SB, given the meta, your main contenders will be RUG/UR, Maverick, Combo, and perhaps several UB/UBW Stoneblade variants.
We already have a solid MU against Stoneblade/Maverick leaving Combo (S&T/Reanimator/Dredge) and RUG/UR as the main threats. I might conside something like:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Warmth
2-3 Choke
2-3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1-3 Misc. Slots
The Warmth is just a sample selection I might prefer. You can easily substitute it with any number of things including Aegis of Honor or Story Circle/Circle of Protection: Red.
The Misc. Slots can be anything else you might consider a threat. Depending on how prevalent I might consider GY-based combo like Dredge/Reanimator I might opt to run Surgical Extraction.
Forlorn Egoist
I would suggest you run 2x Replenish. This card is so much win. I cant recomment Humility + Emrakul. better decide for one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
What's with people disparaging Emrakul alongside Humility. If you land Humility, you have the tools to win against most decks. If you need the Emrakul win, just use an Oblivion Ring and then Replenish your Sterling Groves. Failure of imagination, y'all.
@ mrmaul558: What are you expecting the field to look like at SCG Buffalo? This is the most important question.
I would recommend a fourth copy of Solitary Confinement before specific anti-burn cards. There are a number of decks that just can't interact with you once you land it. Obviously, you have to set up an enchantress first, but that's not hard to do when they don't have counterspells. In general, I feel like the Burn matchup is favorable to very favorable, so I would use that part of the sideboard on something else. Probably grave hate. Since you're running Enlightened Tutor in your build, I would definitely include a Tormod's Crypt in the sideboard. I also would vary the hate cards. The Dredge player is either going to attempt to go off Turn 1 or is going to Cabal Therapy you Turn 1. I prefer a suite of grave hate. Something like 1 Wheel, 1 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Faerie Macabre, 1 Ravenous Trap is very robust. I support ForlornEgoist's recommendation for Karakas. That card is very good. It's what you want against Sneak and Show and Reanimator, especially postboard when Reanimator brings in Show and Tell. I've never been impressed with Runed Halo. The double white is troublesome. I could see an argument for one, but two seems excessive. The only matchups I might want it in would be Storm decks and probably Painter decks, and I actually like other options over it there, too. Have you tried Green Sun's Zenith? Experience tells me it's the best tutor available for the deck, although Enlightened Tutor can also be strong.
Here's my actual list as of right now:
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Plains
5 Forest
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Sterling Grove
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
1 City of Solitude
1 Humility
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Replenish
1 Crop Rotation
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Cards I have that could be SB'd:
2 Aura of SIlence
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Choke
3 Supression Field
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Lignify
1 Replenish
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Aegis of Honor
1 City of Solitude
1 Stony Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Karmic Justice
1 Ground Seal
This isn't all I have access to (I have some cash set aside to get some more pieces for the deck), but its what I have right now.
I agree. I should be able to get 1 Karakas. But I don't replace a plains with it, right? Maybe a forest?Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
I honestly don't think that I'll have to dedicate 4 SB slots to burn. I do like having 1x Aegis of Honor in the board, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
And I've played with Leyline of Sanctity before... but I was never impressed with it. Is it actually worth playing?
I like 1x Lignify in the board too - against Show and Tell/Reanimator, among other things.
So:
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Choke
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Aegis of Honor
1x Lignify
1x Oblivion Ring
3x Misc.?
I don't know - I haven't actually played in a large Legacy event before, which is why I was turning here for help.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
Dedicating 5 slots to graveyard hate isn't too much? How prevalent is Dredge in the meta right now?Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
I agree with Karakas.
Runed Halo just answers most everything that you lose to. Double white can be troublesome, but it is just a catch-all answer.
GSZ is actually in my list, I just forgot to add it the first time.
I, myself, would never devote 4 slots in the SB to burn, particularly considering we have Leyline/Solitary to answer it. However, I was unsure as to which MU's you were looking to resolve and thusly I simply guessed based on the prevalence of RUG. Upping your Confinement count to 4 and running Leylines (+ that 1-of Aegis) is more than sufficient.
As far as GY-based strategies are concerned they're fairly prevalent however against Dredge our deck already has a solid MU based on their limited ability to remove Enchantments, especially problem ones like Grass. Running several pieces of GY hate such as Wheel or Crypt are definitely a necessity as GY hate can be viable in its own way against all the major combo players.
In regards to Leyline of Sanctity, yes, its a card worthy of being included as a x4 of. The reason being that it not only protects you against obvious threats (Burn, Discard) but it can be used in my minor faculties such as shutting down Intuition-based strategies. Of course a Turn 0 Leyline is not an auto-win as each combo has its own answer, however, it forces the player to dig for an answer which gives us time to stabalize.
For Karakas, yes, remove 1 Forest.
Forlorn Egoist
I really dislike the idea of 4 confinement - I've tried it before, and you just draw the card way more than you need to (and drawing multiples is just guaranteed life-tilt). How is 6x Tutors and 3x Confinement not enough??Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
Maybe the combo decks I've played against in my local meta were just really good, but whenever I played Leyline T0, I could never get close to stabalizing before they had the answer and the combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
I added card tags for an easier read. I have also added a * next to what appears at first glance to be some of the weaker choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
Taiga. ...and if you could since Karakas deals with Thalia, Teeg, Grizzy, emrakul, Iona & Most reanimator targets I'd in sqeeze 2 over two Searra's Sanctum. I've been running it in my enchantress builds and it makes the deck much more rounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
I too have experienced a similar fate with Leyline of Sanctity. It's the best that has been proposed thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
I have never tested it, but plan to I wonder if Gilded Light would function better? It's not an enchantment, so it has that going against it, but it does have surprise and draw. This could give the combo player the perception that the coast is clear, and let them spend all this energy comboing off just to Gilded Light them, then we lock them out while they rebuild.
We just need to stop the fast win. Good combo deck also run targeted discard so I don't know.
tags with 1-5 ratings on them:
I think your graveyard suite should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
1 Bojuka Bog - Your targeted free hate to work with Crop Rotation (to rotate from or into) & can not be cabal therapy-ed
1 Tormod's Crypt - Targeted free hate to work with Enlightened tutor
2 Surgical Extraction - Targets the graveyard not the player. Also good against combo.
...If you loose the Green Sun's I'd try a Grafdigger's Cage or two. these are good against a fair amount decks. Natural Order, Green Sun's, Dredge, Hypergenisis, reanimator, zombies ...and I'm sure many others. It is also an Enlightened target.
gotta go. I'll brew on it a bit, and come back with more if the conversation is still going.
Wow, I feel really dumb. There is supposed to be 1x Words of War in that list. It will be the 61st card, I think. (Suggestions for cuts?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
2 Serra's Sanctum is, I've found, the perfect number. You rarely run the risk of drawing a second one, but having the second one is just better than putting another plains. Being able to Crop Rotation the first one away for the second one in a pinch is always a tech play, as well. And if they get rid of one, you always have a second.
Runed Halo just answers everything you could possibly want it to answer. There are very few threats it doesn't take care of.
Humility >>> Moat in the current meta, I think. You can get around having no Argothians, but when your opponents (delver, reanimator, Show and Tell, Maverick to name a few) are running off of 1/1's, they are MUCH further behind. And if you need to go for the Emrakul kill, you can O-Ring your Humility the turn you need to play it.
Crop Rotation can get a white source in the pinchiest of pinches, but most often it finds a Serra's Sanctum and allows you to "go off" out of nowhere.
Lignify gets around Iona on white, its cheaper (and not W) than Oblivion Ring. Its another thing to Show and Tell on dudes (it does get on an Emrakul, stops Griselbrand activations just as well as Oblivion Ring does). Maybe its not better than O-Ring since Griselbrand > Iona, but I like having 1x. I think I have the room, especially since it hits all the T1 decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
I like the Bojuka Bog/Crop Rotation tech, but any enchantment can be tutored up as well. Crop Rotation in response to some dredge player going off seems sweet though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
I love Green Sun's Zenith. It makes so many more hands keepable, gets around Spell Snare, keeps your live Enchantress draws high, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
@mrmaul: If you've never played in a large Legacy event, it could be rough sailing. There will be all sorts of decks there, especially in the first two rounds. If you're unfamiliar with any given matchup, it will be much more difficult. I don't know what Buffalo's local meta is like. Based on past SCG Opens, a large chunk of the field will be running what are considered the top-tier decks: RUG Delver, Stoneblade, Maverick, Dredge, Reanimator, Sneak and Show, etc. If the impression is that Merfolk has started pushing out the graveyard and combo decks, then I would expect people to be jamming Goblins or Elves, or maybe even trying to revive Zoo in some form. Depending on where you are in the cycle, certain decks will be more popular choices. Local preferences are also important. Additionally, cheap decks are more likely to show up than really expensive decks, so you'll see way more Affinity, Dredge, Burn and Elves than you'll see Imperial Painter, High Tide, Aluren, Lands and Turbo Drazi. When you get to the venue, look around the room and take note of what you see. If you see 30 people sleeving up Storm decks, then you'd better have a sideboard for that matchup. Or, even better, a fallback deck that doesn't get killed by that matchup.
If you want to beat Storm combo, you have to devote a ton of slots to the task -- to the point that you usually give up percentages in other matchups. Chant effects are better than Gilded Light, but I favor being proactive. Leylines are good in that you have a turn or two to drop your second hate card. Without Leyline, the Storm player typically Duresses or Thoughtseizes your hate card on Turn 1 and then goes off one or two turns later. Stony Silence, Aura of Silence, Null Rod and Rule of Law are decent. Gaddock Teeg is a bit awkward but can be good at times. Ultimately, Enchantress is not what you want to be playing if you run into Storm combo. You can beat it, but you need 1) A plan for that particular strain of Storm combo; 2) Enough hate cards so that you don't mull to oblivion looking for them; 3) Impeccable play; 4) Luck.
Lignify doesn't work the same way as O Ring with Show and Tell.
Per cdr in an old rules thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s......-and-Tell): "Lignify has no triggered ability. Lignify does not target when it's put into play by an effect (you're not playing it). It comes into play enchanting something. Iona is not in play when Lignify is coming into play."
Edit: I believe you can get it on an Emrakul via Replenish.
No need to feel dumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
Personally I would cut a Green Sun's Zenith or the City of Solitude
Green Sun's because while it's good it is the card the deck least leans on.
City could also get the cut since you mostly want to top deck tutor on your opponents turn, and city shuts that off. Enchantress is good at playing through a wall of counters as long as an enchantress effect is in play. Your in deep and getting one to resolve so I can see it leaving.
Okay, so lets just say we cut the City here is where we are at:
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Plains
4 Forest
1 Karakas
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Sterling Grove
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
1 Words of War
1 Humility
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Replenish
1 Crop Rotation
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
This gives the main deck the highest flexibility/ adaptability without messing with it's core.
I used to play with Runed Halo and I know what you mean. If you want to rock it, I'm not that against it. Especially since it does help the combo MU a known enchantress problem. I'm actually more on board with Runed Halo main then I am Leyline of Sanctity in the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
Both hate Jace so that's nice too.
There is no doubt that this is true. I suppose this is no worse then Maverick running Teeg (who cuts off their own Green Sun's / Elspeth)Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
I'm a fan of the rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
Off of a Show and Tell your opponent can trigger Grizzy after the O-ring trigger is on the stack. Lignify can only attach to (not target) something that has been on the battlefield. It's not my cup of tea, but it's not my deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
That is actually a very strong play, and lowers the overall curve of the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmaul558
Tutoring for an enchantment I'm afraid is too slow. You have to be able to stop a T2 Entomb -> Reanimate
Additionally, Bog from hand can not be countered, or targeted by discard it is a nightmare for dredge. or any graveyard based deck.
I think for your deck it could be a good way to combat combo / GY trix.
So Current SB then:
1 Bojuka Bog - Combo / GY Hate
1 Tormod's Crypt - Combo / GY hate
2 Surgical Extraction - Combo / GY hate
1 Oblivion Ring - Should this be main, and something else be SB Oring is good.
4 Leyline of Sanctity - We're both not fans, but it's the best. A beast against discard, and give you more game v. combo
3 Choke - Control / Folks / RUG Delver (This should probably be Carpet of Flowers ...carpet very good against RUG or a mix thereof)
1 Lignify - ?
2 ? More Humility - For the fattie decks.
Or 3 carpets / 2 choke?
Honorable mention:
I'm haven't been a huge fan of it, but Sacred Ground could be pretty sweet at keeping your utility lands around.
Edit: Lignify can get on Emrakul via Replenish provided Emrakul was on the battlefield at the resolution or Replenish.
It could also attach to Shrouded / Hexproof creatures.
Edit 2: It should also be mentioned that with the addition of Karakas the deck can now fairly safely take infinate turns by bouncing Emrakul post extra turn attack. Likely win more, but sometimes not.
This list looks interesting. Im also a fan of Crop Rotation. In my list it shares a spot with Emrakul. What i would do with your list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
1. Adding Mirri's Guile. This card is so awesome and makes much more Hands keepable. Actually im running 2. Would love to run 3. Try it, it provides so much better topdecks. I was wondering why no one brought it up until now.
2. Play at least 2 (!) Replenish. Replenish has such strong lategame power. Against all the top-decks you want 2 at anytime. Even drawing multiples is no Problem. It feels so good to bring back all the countered enchantments. It even helps to get some extra turns against lethal board states. Simply Sacrifice Confinement, draw a card for turn (hope they have no Bolt) and reanimate it. Saved my ass in some games.
3. It's only my oppinion, but i wont run Emrakul + Humility + GSZ together. Humility can be a hinderance. I have played it maindeck at my last tournaments but im considering to exchange it with Karmic Justice. Too many Deeds and Engineered Explosives out there for my taste.
Also keep in mind: Everybody is preparing for Tribaldecks. Enchantress suffers alot from the collateral damage. (Thats another point for 2nd Replenish)
4. In the end i would cut the GSZ. It's an awesome card but least needed i guess. Or Try 1 Tutor and 1 GSZ.
Thats my 2cent.
I like City of Solitude cut far more than GSZ. It makes the hands so much more keepable, more enchantress's to push through counters, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
I like this list a lot. Does anyone have any more suggestions for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
I feel you there... it just sucks that there's nothing better to run than Leyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Just realized that Lignify doesn't interact with Show and Tell the way I wanted it to... Hmm. Maybe I don't want that in my board?Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Instead of Lignify, 1x Bojuka Bog and 1x additional Crop Rotation in the board?Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
So Current SB then:
1 Crop Rotation - Gets Bog, added "grab games out of nowhere sometimes"
1 Bojuka Bog - Combo / GY Hate
1 Tormod's Crypt - Combo / GY hate
2 Surgical Extraction - Combo / GY hate (Necessary with 1 more Crop Rotation? I'd almost rather run 2x Bojuka Bog in the yard)
1 Oblivion Ring - 1x Runed Halo switch with the MB?
4 Leyline of Sanctity - A beast against discard, and give you more game v. combo
3 Choke - Control / Folks / RUG Delver
2 Carpet of Flowers - Control / Folks / RUG Delver
I like the card in theory as well (with 7x fetches), but there's just no room if I want to be on the Words of War/Sigil/Emrakul/GSZ plan. I sacrifice Mirri's Guile for the versatility of my wincons.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanoschEausH
Before I ran Words of War, I played 2x Replenish. I do think it is the right number, and I might playtest the second one as card 61, I'm not sure yet. My thoughts regarding a second one maindeck are that in Game 1, the second copy doesn't actually influence percentages much at all, I don't think. Against aggro, you should already be winning, against combo, its not going to help you get there, and against control, you're probably going to see the 1x in your deck, and a second one probably isn't going to make the difference. I can get behind finding room in the board for a second one, because I think it is VERY relevant in G2 and 3 against control/aggro-control decks since you have all your hate paired with it, which gives them more they have to counter, which makes it more likely Replenish is going to be relevant/gamebreaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanoschEausH
I think that is more your meta than anything else - against the T1 decks I expect to see quite a bit of at the SCG, I think it is absolutely the right call. I'm not sure I would run it in my weekly events in my local meta, but it makes a ton of sense for the big event.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanoschEausH
As stated above - I like the keepability this card gives your starting 7's far more than Mirri's Guile could. Sure, with Mirri's Guile + Fetches you are essentially getting the card out of the top 3 you want, but with GSZ, you're upping your Enchantress count to 10 (making so that you get slightly more than 1x in your starting hand on average - a very important piece to keepable hands in this deck), and your enchantress count in your deck is never lower than 3x.Quote:
Originally Posted by JanoschEausH
Would Vexing Shusher be relevant in the board with GSZ? I'm having a hard time finding a situation where tutoring for an Enchantress wouldn't be better... but it seems worth consideration.
@Surgical Vs. Bog
The two serve ultimately similar yet exceedingly different roles.
Although Bojuka Bog is very good at what it does it is still off color, comes into play tapped, and targets the player. Some graveyard players will play with Leyline of Sanctity or something like to get around yard hate. I think (1) Bog (2) Rotation is fine.
Surgical on the other hand is very powerful. It too is "free." but can be interacted with in your hand or on the stack. The main differences I see are Surgical targets the card in the graveyard (gets around player shroud / hexproof) eliminates all copies in all zones except in play or exile. Very different effect.
Just think if someone Tormod's Crypted your yard after having a Argothian countered. ...you would care very little. Now think of it being Extracted all of them, rough times (poor GSZ). Against some combo strategies it could be just as devastating. Lets say you extract a High Tide or a Dark Ritual for example.
There is a pretty powerful synergy between Surgical Extraction and Runed Halo. Surgical allows you to search your players hand and Library. So when playing combo you'll know how they boarded, and can make the right halo call.
There are other things to go on about but I'll chop it there.
@ Mirri's Guile
If you wanted to run Mirri's Guile you should do it in one of the Enlightend Tutor slots. Even though Enlightened is powerful it is card disadvantage (-1 card and 1 white to get what you want). Your deck is shuffle city with fetches, GSZ, Groves, Enlightened, & Crop. So it's likely you can manipulate your deck to see the 3 you want. I'd test it and see how it feels if you are on the fence about it. That change would up the enchantment count and give more stability to Solitary Confinement.
@Vexing Shusher
I'd table it. It's not that strong since this deck should play well through counters anyhow since we draw on cast. You could bank on your opponent boarding removal against us, thus making it more sticky. ...but if they don't it is the only thing they can plow providing value to an otherwise dead card. ...why bother.
I like the idea of an alt GSZ targets post board, but shusher is not it. It should have hexproof / shroud. Typically I like Dungrove Elder here, but you don't have the forests to support it, and I don't see a MU where you would want to do that.
When I proxied your deck last night on Cockatrice there were many hands in which I wanted Dryad Arbor for acceleration, but again it the only target for removal thing. Same goes for a Knight of the Reliquary to help you tutor your lands.
At any rate I hope you plan to do a tournament report.