WHy are you down to 1 SGC? I mean, isn't that the best card to drop off of Lackey/Instigator? Why not drop Chieftain completely, since with 8 lackey effects, you have a much better chance of just swarming.
Printable View
WHy are you down to 1 SGC? I mean, isn't that the best card to drop off of Lackey/Instigator? Why not drop Chieftain completely, since with 8 lackey effects, you have a much better chance of just swarming.
I think that you will have to run 4 Goblin Chieftains if you want to get most out of Warren Instigator. Remember that it is not only a new Goblin Lackey but also a good beater when combined with pumpers.
My current list:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
17 [8E] Mountain (3)
1 [TSP] Gemstone Caverns
// Creatures
4 [PLC] Stingscourger
2 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [M10] Goblin Chieftain
3 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [ZEN] Warren Instigator
4 [US] Goblin Matron
1 [EVG] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
As a Merfolk player, I'm glad that people are finally wising up and cutting Piledrivers. That card is just terrible. :cool: *triple layered sarcasm*:cool:
I still like the black splash for Warren Weirding over Gempalm. Right now the top decks in the format are CounterTop and Tempo Thresh. If Goblin's re-emerges as a tier-one deck or if you are in a goblin-heavy meta, Gempalm is better. Otherwise, Weirding with clear a path for your Lackeys/Instigators much more reliably. As a turn two (or even turn three) play, Incinerator won't get the job done for you against a wide variety of commonly played creatures in Legacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenOne
I'm still unsure about Chieftain. My original thought was cut them and go with 4 piledrivers and at least 2 SCG. However, having six haste guys is nice. I suspect I'll test it both ways.
People are still understanding WI the wrong way - you do not need to play Chieftain to make him useful. I would play the Chieftains only for the haste, pumping guys is just a nice addition.
Also, I am in a dilemma with this new guy. On one hand running 3 Siege-gangs has never been better. On the other hand, with more ways to cheat on mana maybe (just maybe) the landcount could be lowered (running 23 lands currently). The problem is, if your mana cheaters get answered, you might be stuck with uncastable high CC guys in hand.
The list i'm testing at the moment:
4 Wasteland
19 Mountain
4 Lackey / Piledriver / WI / Matron / Warchief / Ringleader / Incinerator
3 Siege-gang Commander
2 Stingscourger
4 AEther Vial
I agree and disagree. Weirding is great removal early on, no doubt about that. However, with the new Instigator, the opponent is going to be forced to hold blockers back more often, which will allow you more time to get more guys in play. Weirding is better early on, but worse later on. They will sac their worst guy to Weirding. Gempalm is uncounterable (sans Stifle) and draws you a card. The fact that Gempalm is incolor makes it easier to cast. Additionally, it can be played as an actual Goblin when you have no need for removal. So I think both have pros and cons, and I wouldn't consider either one strictly superior.Quote:
I still like the black splash for Warren Weirding over Gempalm. Right now the top decks in the format are CounterTop and Tempo Thresh. If Goblin's re-emerges as a tier-one deck or if you are in a goblin-heavy meta, Gempalm is better. Otherwise, Weirding with clear a path for your Lackeys/Instigators much more reliably. As a turn two (or even turn three) play, Incinerator won't get the job done for you against a wide variety of commonly played creatures in Legacy.
When lackeys are connecting, dropping a 3+ cc dude usually spells gg anyway, due to the tempo swing you get in the match.Quote:
Originally Posted by kicks_422
When you drop SGC you usually win or lose, and it's really rare the occasion where I had to drop a second SGC during the match.
I'm also playing with 22 lands, so dropping 5cc guys without cheating them it's quite difficult.
Oh, don't worry, you'll still lose horribly, if they don't print something good for you in this set. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
Yeah, but I still want all the mana cheaters (Warchiefs too) that the deck can exploit, way before the +1/+1 of chieftain. A 4/2 split was the best I could came up with, when playing with 22 lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
I could be wrong, but I'm thinking that it is better to play removal that is best in the early game (Weirding, Stingscourger) now that you have eight creatures that cheat in goblins to the battlefield when they connect. In the past, Lackey was always a great card, but you couldn't reliably draw him and even if you drew one, it would often be countered or removed. Only on rare occasions would you start with multiple lackeys. Now you have eight such creatures. You should be able to reliably draw at least one and sometimes have multiples. Because of this, I'm tempted to find ways to maximize my chances of connecting with lackeys/institgators. This is why I think that removal that is most reliable on turn 2-4 is the way to go. There is no doubt that Incinerator is usually going to be much better in the mid-to-late game than the spells I mentioned above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
There are some drawbacks to this approach, however. If we add Instigator, Weirding, and Stingscourger (cards that are spectacular in the early game, but bad in the late game) and also cut cards that are good in the late game (incinerator, SCG, chieftain, piledriver, etc.) then we are obviously making the deck much weaker in the late game. What happens if we are unable to connect with an early lackey/instigator? Winning becomes much more difficult than it was with the older builds. This is the dilemma. However, because the potential of Instigator is so powerful, I am tempted to load up on spells that help my early game. Only time will tell if this is correct.
I think Boartusk Liege is an underrated card. If your meta sides a lot of pyroclasms/volcanic fallouts, this guy just laughs at them. Even to engeneered plague. It can also stop a 3/4 tarmo if you dont play any weirdings to give them the sorcery bonus, keeping in mind most decks play just 4 ponders as sorceries.
I agree. As well as simply being a solid answer to most of the answers Legacy has for gobs (Plague, Pyroclasm, Fallout, etc.), Leige is mono-red's only real answer to double plague, thus being a very solid addition to any sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligh16
With Cheiftains and port/waste, monored should have no difficulty with engineered plague. Most of the decks that run plague nowadays are either Countertop or Rock and those decks will have a laughable time getting through our mana denial to play their so-called x1 plague lock or their pyroclasm or whatever. To some extent same with landstill if they run plagues or WoGs or something, but there are other tools for that deck too.
That is, if you are still playing port.
With War Marshal, Instigator, Chieftain, and trying to keep something in 1cc, I don't think we need boartusk. His extra beefy 3/4 body is also really not that relevant. I guess if you aren't playing port though it gives mention to be explored...you are more vulnerable to off-color sideboard spells like pyroclasm and plague then.
ETA: Ok not "no problem" with plague, but it isn't a gamecrushing card like it used to be.
Not to mention he tramples and can compete with Goyf in some games.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr4g0n
most would disagree with me but why not just main board them? hypothetically being 12 lord goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr4g0n
I just discovered Mudbrawler Raiders for my next merfolk match up if i have one in the near future. i'm sure everyone who posts in here already knows about him though.
@Shanghi: Because the strength of goblins will never be in the power/toughness efficiency. 2/2 for 3R and 1/1 for 2R isn't going to match up to 3/3 for G or 4/5 for 1G.
You don't realise that a single chieftain doesn't protect you're dudes agaisnt a pyroclasm. It's an answer against plague, but not agaisnt pyroclasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoulQ
Also, saying that with port and wasteland you can forbid an opponent to play a pyroclas is at least optimistic. Agaisnt plague maybe, but not against pyroclasm, a 2 cmc sorcery.
As well as agreeing with FoulQ, I'd like to also point out that maindecked Leige would slow us down immensely. Having the Chieftains gives a decent answer to Plague and the haste is what allows us to maindeck it without that much of a qualm, but to maindeck Leige is like kissing your speed goodbye - not a good idea for anyone running goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghi Knights
The clasm thing is two fold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinch
1) I've been seeing it less and less in my meta as the only popular deck it "destroys" is goblins nowadays.
2) Honestly I've never really been that afraid of pyroclasm. Yes it is obviously a good card against us but goblins is known for its ability to recover. I wouldn't maindeck subpar cards like boartusk liege to combat a card that has been dying out lately and can be played around.
The other BIG thing about Boartusk is that it dodges Firespout, which everyone seems to be playing in place of Pyroclasm these days. An ass of 4 is right out of range, which is important. Waste/Port can't do everything on its own.
Definitely a great SB card. I like it better than Chieftan MD (my opinion, which doesn't make it right), but now with Instigator, whether or not there is room for it MD is the issue.
If you need sideboard slots specifically devoted to the Merfolk match-up, you're doing it wrong. Take it from a Merfolk player, that shit is about 70/30 in your favor, and it's pretty much my least favorite match-up to have to play in a tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanghi Knights
No means is it a nessesity to have board spots to fight merfolk but it looked interesting to me none the less.Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
i see what most of you mean by boartusk being bad in the main deck, but a 3/4 trampler thats most likely going to be bigger due to having a king or a goblin chieftain already played a turn before. (dunno if anyones still using king or not).
is somewhat appealing.