[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by Clown of Tresserhorn

@Dia_Bot

The list looks great. I can't believe I never thought about the white splash. So far, testing has been promising. I'm running:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Swamp

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

4 Orim's Chant
3 Duress

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Grim Tutor

1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

I always though Ari's build was super solid, but needed one or two more disruption spells. Chant is insane right now, and with fish on the decline, I don't feel bad running this manabase. Having IGGY as your primary win condition, chant seems better than duress, so I went with 4/3 split.

I'm feeling better and better about storm...

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Tried your build today (except -2 V. Catacombs, +2 M. Flats, -2 O. Chant, +2 Silence) in a small tournament (20ish people). I went 3-1 only losing to Uw Blade, against which I of course couldn't find my Chants. They did however win me the storm-mirror. The two Silence was some last minute tech against Leyline of Sanctity and Misdirection-effects. Neither came up, and I will swap them for two chants next time. I like the list and will continue playing it.

Nice to see some videos.

Anybody else have any videos or know where I can find some with ANT in action?

I played the list the oRen posted at a tourny yesterday going 1-2 except -1 chant +1 discard. Not the greatest result but the two losses were both against reanimator. Turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias is a bit rough to get through :cry:, so any advice for that would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by murkymercy

I played the list the oRen posted at a tourny yesterday going 1-2 except -1 chant +1 discard. Not the greatest result but the two losses were both against reanimator. Turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias is a bit rough to get through :cry:, so any advice for that would be helpful.

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Well.. Its combo vs. combo - whoever can pull the trigger and go off faster wins the game. If reanimator is a problem board in the graveyard hate. Its a very resilient deck that operates on a few key cards resolving and has a decent counter suite - it won't always be a turn 2 jin but there is a reason my board packs extirpates over dark confidants.

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Originally Posted by murkymercy

I played the list the oRen posted at a tourny yesterday going 1-2 except -1 chant +1 discard. Not the greatest result but the two losses were both against reanimator. Turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias is a bit rough to get through :cry:, so any advice for that would be helpful.

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Back in the days when both were the two top tier decks in Europe Reanimator used to win against ANT a lot because the deck is much better pre board in this matchup. If you have problems with graveyard based decks like this try to fit 3 Extirpates into the sideboard.

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Originally Posted by Chikenbok

my board packs extirpates over dark confidants.

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This should be less because Pate is good and more because Bob is just terrible in Legacy Storm decks.

Extirpate is a great choice. Completely didn't think of it as i have none but I'll change that as soon as possible. Cheers :smile:

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Originally Posted by lorddotm

This should be less because Pate is good and more because Bob is just terrible in Legacy Storm decks.

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Why do you think Bob is terrible. I do not necessarily disagree, but I've been researching on TC Decks and found that nearly all of the UB Tendrils decks have been playing Bob in the sideboard.

Dark Confidant is fine this type of deck.

It's bad in TES, since TES just wants to win as soon as possible. When playing a war of attrition, and when boarding in the tendrils plan, Bob ain't bad.

So I'm on my phone so I can't add a link, but chapin just featured this in a free article on star city

Scaared ruinator. 1UU

Flying
as an additional cost, exhile 3 cards in your graveyard when u cast.

May be played from your graveyard. 5/6


Do we actually have a legit man plan now?

So I'm on my phone so I can't add a link, but chapin just featured this in a free article on star city

Scaared ruinator. 1UU

Flying
as an additional cost, exhile 3 cards in your graveyard when u cast.

May be played from your graveyard. 5/6


Do we actually have a legit man plan now?

exile 3 CREATURE cards in your graveyard

Oh, wow guess I got over excited. damn.

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Originally Posted by Clown of Tresserhorn

Dark Confidant is fine this type of deck.

It's bad in TES, since TES just wants to win as soon as possible. When playing a war of attrition, and when boarding in the tendrils plan, Bob ain't bad.

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You're actually wrong. I've played ANT with and without Bob. Bob has never impressed me. Even against decks he's supposed to be good against, you just get overrun by Tarmogoyf and disruption.

On another note, I will never understand why people play ANT over TES anymore. TES is just as consistent, plays around Mental Misstep better, and is faster. People are frightened of the mana base, but it's rarely a problem.

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Originally Posted by lorddotm

On another note, I will never understand why people play ANT over TES anymore. TES is just as consistent, plays around Mental Misstep better, and is faster. People are frightened of the mana base, but it's rarely a problem.

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Although I agree with you on the topic of Wasteland-vulnerability I don't know how TES plays around MMs better than ANT. I mean: how's that possible with more relevant cc=1-spells to aim for?

Protection targeted by MMs
TES: 7-8 pieces (Swarms/Chants/Duress)
ANT: 7-8 pieces (Duress/Seize)

Mana targeted by MMs
TES: 8 (D.Rit, Flame Rit)
ANT: 4 (D.Rit)

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Originally Posted by lorddotm

You're actually wrong. I've played ANT with and without Bob. Bob has never impressed me. Even against decks he's supposed to be good against, you just get overrun by Tarmogoyf and disruption.

On another note, I will never understand why people play ANT over TES anymore. TES is just as consistent, plays around Mental Misstep better, and is faster. People are frightened of the mana base, but it's rarely a problem.

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For me at least, whenever I play TES, I always get insanely awkward hands. Whether it be infernal tutor and burning wish hands with no fastmana, multiple rite of flames with infernal tutor and one land, chant/xantid with underground+fetch against blue, multiple disruptions against non-blue, and simply being outclassed after casting empty the warrens frequently happened to me when I played TES. Also, opening 2 chrome mox is beyond shitty and should statistically happen once for each nut hand with 2 LEDs. With ANT, there is less of everything but more ways to find it, placing more importance on the role of cantrips than blind luck and a wishboard. With ANT's 4-6 tutors and 6-7 disruption, you can't really flood on anything other than cantrips, which turn into the cards you need. I also like sideboarding with ANT much more than TES. A number of times when playing TES, I would have to use my only tutor to find an answer some sort of hatebear because the 3 cards I brought in didn't come up with the 7 cantrips that are still in the main postboard. With ANT, you bring in a good amount of bounce which you cantrip into to answer hatebears rather than wasting tutors to do so. Also, 17 lands v. 13 is a huge difference in consistency which TES replaces with chrome mox, a card that is often terrible before ad nauseam. Also, burning wish can only find diminishing returns as a storm engine if you have only one tutor, which is terribly inconsistant and only really great under a chant/xantid hit. The only upside I see to TES is not being cold to gaddock teeg game one. I'll take ant's consistency over outs to game 1 teeg any day.

Have to say I agree with GoboLord here. I don't see how TES or, in particular, Rite of Flame would be less vulnerable to Mental Misstep than Cabal Ritual.

ANT off course also plays a larger number of 1 cmc cantrips, but i think these won't get misstepped unless you really want to (for example, when faking a mana screw).

I don't want to start a complete TES vs. ANT debate. I'm just trying to understand lorddotm's remark that TES plays around Mental Misstep better ANT, because I don't see how.

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Originally Posted by bennotsi

Have to say I agree with GoboLord here. I don't see how TES or, in particular, Rite of Flame would be less vulnerable to Mental Misstep than Cabal Ritual.

ANT off course also plays a larger number of 1 cmc cantrips, but i think these won't get misstepped unless you really want to (for example, when faking a mana screw).

I don't want to start a complete TES vs. ANT debate. I'm just trying to understand lorddotm's remark that TES plays around Mental Misstep better ANT, because I don't see how.

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People who actually know how to use Misstep against combo will save it for your protection spell or tag a Brainstorm or a Dark Ritual, Rite never gets hit, so having Cabal at CMC 2 isn't actually that big a deal (especially since Cabal Ritual is dogshit the first few turns of the game while Rite is always useful).

The reason it plays around Misstep better is because of two things:

1) It is faster, so the opponent typically has seen less cards than when you are playing ANT (which is one of the big reasons why Ad Nauseam is better than Doomsday). This aspect is typically over looked.

2) We have 8 tutors and 19-20 acceleration, which makes us rely on our cantrips less often. That is the problem I was having when I was testing ANT, it was slower, and could be crippled if a well timed Brainstorm was Misstepped, this happens a lot less often with TES.

Ok, agree with you on that again. Thanks for explanations, your points make sense now.

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Originally Posted by lorddotm

People who actually know how to use Misstep against combo will save it for your protection spell or tag a Brainstorm or a Dark Ritual, Rite never gets hit, so having Cabal at CMC 2 isn't actually that big a deal (especially since Cabal Ritual is dogshit the first few turns of the game while Rite is always useful).

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Matt Elias misstep'd my rite of flame. Saved his ass. Keeping a deck like that off 4-5 mana can be brutal, especially if you aren't looking to play a longer game (for example, reanimator).

Other than that, I completely agree. Similarly, AnT has a much harder time finding a second business spell to play around Clique. And clique is a bitch.