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I'm pretty sure Godwin's Law doesn't apply to tongue-in-cheek, intentional invocation. It's one thing to seriously compare something to Hitler to appeal to emotion, but this is quite obviously in the realm of the absurd. If anything, this is a REVERSE Godwin. And that is epic win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Godwin's Law strikes again.Quote:
thus it's stupid to say and a big waste of time to read or write. "I think Hitler shouldn't have killed the Jews. Please discuss."
I guess almost everything relevant has been stated at this point.
I hope you guys realize you are victims of a memetic engineering experiment. Go read Godwin's texts about his "law".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malchar
I might be wrong, but in my eyes Stifle/Nought is a lesser-good combo versus Coatl/Library!
By itself Stifle is a fine card. Can counter the occasional Deed or fetchland (which might be lucky an mana-screw the opponent over). In some MU's it's the worst card in your deck.
By itself the Nought sucks a hairy ballsack.
Alone, the Coatl is a win-condition that's got to be dealt with..
By itself Sylvan Library seems alittle bleak. But I'm sure the every-turn-for-the-rest-of-the-game-filter-action for 1G is worth it.
These were some of the first thoughts that came to my mind in the Coatl/Library-question..
Flame away? ;)
[Paraphrased]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook
I agree with both of you, and what you're saying isn't incompatible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
I think Lorescale plus Sylvan - particularly several Sylvan(s) - sounds really dumb. Plus (if it still works this way), I think using 2 x Sylvan to draw the top five cards, set back the 4 of those you'd like, and then using Sensai's to control what's on top (pun intended) when Counterbalance resolves, sounds pretty damn strong.
And I'm pretty confident that a creature that gets +3/+3 a turn can become quite a problem in rather a hurry for most decks.
But until it gets played / tested, and posts improved numbers, it's just a fun variant. "Just as good" is way less interesting than "better".
That said, even "situationally better" is pretty interesting.
Edit - "10/4/2004 - Spells and abilities are resolved one at a time, so if you use multiple Sylvan Libraries in one stack, each will resolve in sequence. You do not get to draw all the cards at once then put them all back at once." Damn you, Gatherer!
If wizards printed G for a 20/20, apparently people would still ask the following questions:
Why doesn't it have shroud?
Why doesn't it fly/trample? It can be chumped, omg!
What kind of combos can I run this card in?
HELLO the card is broken on its own. Some cards require a gimmick to see playable, but even with just a top OR (exclusive) a brainstorm, or even just a ponder I fail to see how coatl is short of the yet another must-swords.
The question isn't whether or not an unchecked Lorescale will get gross. Of course it will. So will Quirion Dryad. The problem is where would you fit it? What are you going to cut out of say 4c thresh to fit it in? There are 4 beater slots, and they're occupied by Tarmogoyf. The rest of the slots are utility creatures. Confidant is card draw, Predator is additional tech against CB and random Shackles or equipment. Sower is additional removal. There is no available space for another vanilla beater, which is what Lorescale is. Now the argument of whether Lorescale can replace Tarmogoyf is a valid one, but what settles it for me is that ripping goyf in a topdeck war ends the game quickly, while ripping Lorescale in a topdeck war gives only a slowly incrementing beater. Obviously, if you've got control of the game, either will end things quickly. Obviously, if you're down a ton of cards and your opponent has board control, neither is going to save you. So as far as I can see, while a mid-game Lorescale can be bigger than a mid-game Tarmogoyf, goyf is still more likely to swing the game.
Have you guys considered playing this guy with Lich somehow? He'd be fucking gigantic!
In all seriousness though, Teferi's Puzzle Box could be interesting.
Lich wins games on its own. This card would be next to pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakish777
I would if he was white, so you can pitch it to the Norishing Shoal. It would make the deck even more busted...Quote:
Originally Posted by freakish777
Happy CtG day, everyone.
EDIT: Oh, I got it mixed up with Shining Shoal. Oh well, I'm so great that I can pitch white cards to Norishing shoal.
On turn 2, Stifle-nought, as a combo puts out a 12/12 trample for 1U.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregrauko
On turn 3, Coatl and Sylvan library gives you a vanilla 2/2 that gets +4 per turn for 2GGU. Granted you also get access to a worse version of sensei's divining top.
Alone, each card is much worse than it is in the combo. Sylvan is a worse sensei top, coatl is quite a bit worse than goyf. Also, nought is quite useless yet stifle remains awesome. Of course, cards aren't played in a vacuum, so really the combo evaluation is best one to go by.
If sylvan is so good then why wasn't it used before coatl? Sylvan merely dumbs-down the quality of the deck to cater for a card that is itself a dumbed-down version of Tarmogoyf. If anything, we should be figuring out how to use cards like warren weirding, hoofprints of the stag, or planeswalkers, since they all pump up the goyf, which is the real star creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
It's still valid to question this card's ability in terms of the fact that it doesn't have built in evasion or protection. Goyf is great, but is it necessary to have 4 more cards in the deck that are very similar except overall weaker? It's difficult to fit in evasion/protection creatures, utility creatures, and coatl at the same time. Is it better to have more redundant vanilla beaters that get worse and worse, or something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by pi4meterftw
You broke the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakish777
So, my deck is going to start with:
4 Howling Mine
4 Font of Mythos
4 Teferi's Puzzle Box
4 Snake guy.
How I lose?
I think if people try to build seriously dedicated Coatl decks, then Chains of Mephistopheles becomes worth a few glances. Your opponent lands a Sylvan Library on the second turn, only to see you drop the Chains! What a beat!
Also, lol unreal against Brainstorm.
Serious question: I don't see how this is better than Kavu Predator. It costs 1 more and it's not even as big.
Lorescale Coatl also starts at 2/2 and only grows to ~6/6 or 7/7 by the next attack. Berserk it and it's only a 14/7.
Kavu Predator can easily be 10/10 or 20/20 and then Berserk makes it a 40/20 which is enough to kill the opponent even with all the life that he gained in one swing.
Yet, Kavu Predator only sees play in ONE deck to beat and everyone's complaining about this 1UG trash? Not even as big, costs one more. Nobody is going to play this shit. Is there anything I'm not seeing?
Serious answer: Because Kavu Predator does not grow without investment. In fact grows off of investing shitty cards, that give your opponent more life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Lorescale Coatl grows without any investment, and if one choses to play cards to accellerate this growth, the cards are ones that do something everyone wants to do anyway, draw cards.
Kavu Predator fits in only one deck, because the card requires you devote the remainder of the deck to absolute shit for it to be anything more than Grizzly Bears.
:tongue:
Ok so I decided to do some testing with sylvan library and cards played specifically to have synergy with the coatl in an attempt to prove you wrong. And well my testing was not what I was expecting. It actually played extremely well and did a lot of broken stuff. For example one game went like this:
First turn
Fecth, Noble Heierarch.
Second turn
Fetch, Sylvan Library, Noble Heierarch.
Third turn
Coatl.
He attacks into coatl with his puny 4/5 goyf, I brainstorm in response twice and block the pathetic goyf with my 8/8.
Fourth Turn
I keep all three cards - 11/11.
I then cast mental note - 13/13.
I play top, use it and pop it to find Cephalid Colesium - 14/14.
I then play and use the cephalid colesium - 17/17.
I replay the top.
I swing in - 19/19.
I then pop top 20-20.
And hands like this or close to this really were not uncommon at all with all the ridiculous amount of dig and card filtering the deck has.
I would like to say that I was wrong about sylvan library and you can definitely build a deck around coatl to abuse it more than anything we currently have.
@Foolofatook - I apologize for being so dismissive of your ideas. You have some really good ones and I am looking forward to hearing more of your input in the future.
I look forward to refining my deck for the future and expect to see me wrecking face with it on the May 9th tournament.
P.S. For those that don't have Sylvan libraries right now I would highly advise picking some up before they skyrocket like grindstone did when painter's servant was printed.
I think that Mental Note would have to be Careful Study or something...Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
Careful study does not give nearly the same amount of card quality since you only get to see 1 random card and it doesn't pump the coatl as much.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Mental note only draws 1, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilver
Try this hand:
Turn 1 Land Noble Hierarch, 5 cards in hand
Turn 2 Land Sylvan Library Hierarch (3 cards in hand)
Turn 3 Land Coatl, swing with Hierarch (opponent at 18, 2-4 cards in hand)
Turn 4 Library activates, Ponder Brainstorm Ponder Brainstorm, Brainstorm, take 18, gg.
Library was so broken in this scenario, giving Coatl +2/+2. You might even call it "Sylvan Might" it's so strong.
But as good as that was, that's not nearly as good as:
Turn 1 Land, pitch Elvish Spirit Guide, Kavu Predator, go.
Turn 2 Land, False Cure, Skyshroud Cutter for free (opponent at 15), Reverent Silence (opponent at 9), swing with Kavu Predator for 13, gg.
That kill is two turns faster.
Wow you're right. I'll have to give it a try when I get home tonight but it does seem pretty strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian