So, since AVR is legal soon, how is your testing progressing so far? Any new list you came up with?
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So, since AVR is legal soon, how is your testing progressing so far? Any new list you came up with?
I will soon have the cards for minimal blue version sans temporal master, and will take it to the next available tournament, will update later
Yesterday I finished 4th among 16 players, with 3-1 wins. I lost 2-1 from a RUG Delver, and I won 2 RUG Delver 2-0 each and a non competitive 12post.
I've been play testing this deck quite a bit with my playgroup and I have to say that temporal mastery was very underwhelming.There were multiple times where I had the chance to miracle it, but it just didn't really matter or I wish it was something actually useful. There was maybe 1 game out of 20 games where it wouldve won me the game. I've been trying Fact or fiction in its place and have been sort of liking it. But I definitely need to test it some more. I originally tested with 4 show and tells, but didnt like how inconsistent it was. I would often just have 1-2 show and tells w/ no fatties to put into play; after going down to 3 and upping the candle by 1, I've found that the extra candle really helps and that the extra show and tell wasn't missed too much.
My current MB is:
4x Tropical Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
4x Vesuva
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Primeval Titan
3x Sylvan Scrying
3x Show and Tell
3x Candelabra of Tawnos
4x Crop Rotation
4x Expedition Map
4x Devastation Tide
4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Fact or Fiction
SB:
4x Force of Will
4x Spell Pierce
2x Flusterstorm
3x Surgical
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Karakas
I've been having trouble versus sneak/show and combo in general. I'll just call high tide a lost cause as that deck is ridiculously consistent; but what are some good sb strategies versus combo? Should I be using pithing needles and hate pieces in there somewhere?
I've always liked the maindeck Pithing Needles as they give you a maindeck out against a resolved Belcher (perhaps without enough mana to activate or a misfire). Further, the Crop Rotation into Tabernacle is an excellent way to get rid of EtW tokens.
Against High Tide... nobody really plays Solidarity anymore so maindeck Needles are your only real disruption as they stop Candelabra's. I can't say I've beaten Spiral Tide with this deck though. Its just too fast, plays Force on your Primeval Titan.. and then goes off before you can really get down something like Emrakul. However, siding in countermagic from the board coupled with Show and Tell might be able to get there.
TES and ANT are really fast. You'd have to open with countermagic to stop them from comboing early and if they have seen that you play Trops, they might just play a bit of disruption to make sure the coast is clear. My experiences against TES have been pretty brutal; mostly losses. I've found Wasteland/Vesuva combinations or ideally, Wastelock with Crucible to effectively slow them down. If you can follow that up with a Primeval Titan, you can threaten each turn to get closer to being out of a reasonable Tendrils range because as you gain life and swing in with Titan, you get more Vesuva/Glimmerposts to boost your life total and they lose life which makes their Ad Nauseam yield less. That or find Vesuva's to copy Wasteland so you can get rid of their perpetual mana sources.
Well the thing is, my mainboard doesn't actually play any wastelands (I'm using the UG version similar to Rock Lee). I suppose I could put a couple into the sb as the mana denial does seem like it would be good to stop a lot of the mana-light combo decks out there.
I really don't like the idea of main-decked pithing needles though. I may be wrong on this, but i always felt like they were more of a sb card. I'm currently not playing tabernacle mb since maze is just so much better at stalling the ground.
I may add in crucibles in the fact or fiction slots though. That seems like something that would be very useful versus a lot of the aggro decks.
I've been playing them in the mono-green list with much success. Granted, I haven't played on Cockatrice in a few weeks but when I was playing it, Needle was pretty dam good. At the very least, it can keep them from cracking fetchlands. Occasionally that will cut them off of 2 lands or so. At the most, it stops them from playing Deed and blowing up stuff like Exploration, Crucible, Candelabra, etc. Its also good against Sneak Attack, equipment, etc. I can usually find a way to use them, and they are just killer in some matches.
I might try them md in place of crucibles or something later on I suppose. But right now, its between crucible/pithing/fof and i think crucible has a lot more synergy. Deed hasn't really been too much of a blowout versus my deck so far--I'm running md devastation tide, so its really just like...if they're probably playing a slow deck which is good for me anyways.
Some thoughts :
Maybe Breeding Pool is better than Misty Rainforest. Can't get stifled, and counts really as a producing mana land, in case you need to cast your fatties with 10+ lands. In my last tournament I get an Extirpate in my Tropicals. And that hurts..
Maybe Maze of Ith is unbelievable good (besides that makes combo with candelabra), so that 1 is not enough. I'm thinking to add 1 more in Bojuka's place. Bojuka is not always useful, specifically in opening hand.
Maybe Cavern of Souls for Titans would be a nice addition. This dude is a "game over" and must be protected.
Is devastation tide really better than repeal? Is there any consencus on this?
Breeding Pool doesn't synergize with Crucible, and together a fetch + Crucible synergizes with Top. I think Stifle hurts more on Primeval Titan's CIP than on a single fetch, especially when the deck runs so many lands + search to begin with. Also, Expedition Map is another route to not getting completely cut off from green. Extirpate on Trops is pretty brutal.. but I would think that if they manage to play Wasteland, at least early, Extirpate is far better on Cloudpost. Also, the -2 life might hurt if you draw too many and need them in the same turn, namely if you can't get the Glimmerposts rolling quickly enough to put yourself out of reach range. I'd say that Breeding Pool looks far better if you were to run something like Root Maze, which punishes the living shit out of anyone running heavy fetches... and Cloudposts, Vesuva's, Breed Pool, and any Titan triggered lands come into play tapped anyway.. not to mention Candelabra's ability to bypass Rootmaze with access to Cloudpost + Vesuva/Cloudpost/Glimmerpost.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeddlingMageGR
Maze is usually pretty good, and in matchups like Reanimator where Bog would be good, Maze accomplishes the same task. Maze is also better against Sneak/Show. Perhaps this config could be better than maindeck Bog.
Cavern might be a nice 1'of but is it maindeck material if you are facing down aggro? What would you cut for it? I thought about the same thing and concluded that it would be best suited to builds that maindeck the full playset of Titans. Otherwise its a dead land that doesn't produce color or serve any other utility really.
@Vacrix: Would it be possible to se how your mono green list looks like?
Thanks in advance if possible :smile:
I posted it a few pages back and haven't played it in a few weeks due to finals week.. but here you go:
TurboEldrazi
Tech - 12
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
3 All is Dust
2 Crucible of Worlds
Land Search - 10
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
Acceleration - 7
4 Exploration
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
Creatures - 7
3 Primeval Titan
2 Terastodon
2 Emrakul
Land - 24
5 Forest
4 Cloudpost
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Wasteland
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
Sideboard - 15
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Trinisphere
4 Moment's Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
The only thing different is I enjoy Terastodon. It can blow up basics which can have great synergy with Tabernacle. It can also blow up permanents like equipment and artifacts, which you can't get rid of with All is Dust. Also, it potentially can end the game when you blow up a few of your own unneeded permanents like Exploration, additional lands, etc. so that you can land 18 power on the field.
Played some games with the 3 show and tell-list. I tried both devastation tide and repeal as a 4-of, and repeal seems to be better against an unknown opponent. Devastation tide is really good against maverick and dredge, but against RUG or RU devastation tide is generally a repeal sans the draw a card. Im not sure what configuration I want to play, but as of now its 4 repeal, 0 devastation tide and 2 temporal mastery
I might put the 4th show and tell in the SB against RU, because you really want to win with show and tell and not 5-6 lands that will net you 10-12 damage out of a Price of progress
Also not sure I want 4 or 3 primeval titans..running 4 as of now
To be noted; This deck seems quite different from the mono-G list. Concistency seems worse but show and tell might be just what the deck needed. I do dislike my opening 7's a bit more than what the mono-G list offered
I've been playing with devastation tides rather than repeals and I have to say that a lot of the time, if that Tide were a repeal, i would've lost the game. The pseudo-wrath is very important for the deck to stall out opponents. I admit that versus decks with very few permanents repeal may be better (Rug delver, tempo), but if you hit 2 creatures, it's probably enough to slow the game down enough to hit your mana (Tide is also always 1U while repeal may be 2U vs goyf or 3U versus clique/kotr). To supplement tide, I've been running -2 Fof, -1 Sylvan Library, +3 Brainstorm. I still don't think temporal mastery is that amazing, simply because I don't always have an extra land to put down. But using UU1 to explore (brainstorm to setup) doesn't seem as appealing as a UU1 1-sided evacuation.
I'm pretty new to this deck, but I'm strongly considering building it on MODO because it shares a good number of cards with modern tron lists for when its modern season again.
Do any veterans of this deck have any advice about general playstyles against various decks? What are the advantages of the Mono-Green lists v. the U/G lists? I'm inclined to like the mono-g list more, but it seems like more of a dog to combo.
Any responses would be great!
Me and other players have given many analyzes on the previous pages. Check these first, and then come back with new questions. Advantages and disadvantages of mono -G and U/G versions are all there. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cuthbertthecat
Well, brainstorm is awesome. Even the devastation tides become better. Im thinking about adding the 4th brainstorm because u never get unhappy seeing it. Testing indicates positive results.
-Maverick and Esper/UW-control are both good matchups
-RU is pretty much dependant on who plays first and if they have Fow/PoP or not
-RUG is easier than RU
Havent tried against combo at all, but it surely is better now with blue spells in the sideboard
Over all the deck seems pretty strong. I like having the option to either go lands -> big drop or show and tell depending on what you're facing
Is really Brainstorm necessary if you have 4 Tops mainboard ?
@MM: Well, the question is why not? If you look at most combo decks, they tend to run at least 6 cantrips. Since this is essentially a combo/control deck at its core, more cantrips tend to give you more consistency in my opinion. Furthermore, the deck operates best when it has a sdt going, but you don't always have that luxury. Brainstorm helps you find it, while also getting rid of some potential chaffe in your hand (such as 2 eldrazis early in the game; or tide versus a control deck that is giving you no pressure).
@xtreme: I haven't really tested much against storm or high tide, but I was playing against my friend's sneak/show a while back w/o the brainstorms (mostly preboard though) and I have to say that it seemed like sneak/show just beats this deck. Preboard they have griselbrand->draw a bunch of emmy's/sneaks. Game 2/3, it was just too many things that i had to counter: sneak attack, show and tell (b/c he would put down sneak attack) and blood moon. I found that show and tell was very easy to answer, but sneak attack was a huge pain (leading me to believe that pithing needle may be necessary).
As for the fourth brainstorm: I'm not really sure that it's a great idea. It would be nice, but I just don't really know what to cut. Furthermore, I don't really use brainstorm that often in this deck: mostly just to set up miracles and only to dig a few times. The main problem I have had with it is that I only have 1 colored source most of the time so I need to basically brainstorm eot in order to keep up rotation mana.
As for the RU/RUG matchup, I don't have too much experience with it. But from my limited testing, it really came down to whether or not I could resolve a show/tell. Most of the tempo decks have enough ways to hinder my development enough (and are fast enough) that getting enough lands is very difficult at times. Any tricks you guys have for me?