[Born of the Gods] Spoiler Thread

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

So.now 4 color jund will be all the rage? Splash white for stoneforge? JUNDO FOR THE FUNDO

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no, Jund is going to destroy any deck that wants to play this guy, except maybe zoo.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

no, Jund is going to destroy any deck that wants to play this guy, except maybe zoo.

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Yep. The stronger this guy is, the stronger Jund gets...unless it is so good that Zoo can re-enter.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Maybe you also play like shit and if both players are competent, the numbers even back out in favor of Miracles.

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Could be. But i doubt it with my 75 win % on Magic Online. I've noticed a high variance in this matchup, if both players are excellent, Death and Taxes is slightly favored. Please also note that I'm winning with Death and Taxes against Miracle (50 games with Death and Taxes; over 1000 games with Miracle in general). Your analysis that Death and Taxes is a swarm deck and loses to Terminus is wrong, Thalia SoFi and Karakas is enough. Every dumb better is enough with SoFi. Of course that's not everything the matchup is about, but yeah this is not the place to talk about that.

But so was your analysis about JTMS, so you should definetely reconsider your opinion about this matchup. Maybe do some serious testing against good players ;)

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Originally Posted by Poron

too many 2cc good drops (Tarmogoyf, Stoneforge, Thalia, This new entry). Spell Snare is coming back for sure

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I never understood why it lefts. Everybody and their mother is trying to cast stoneforge mystic.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

Also Merfolk are you guys serious. You want to splash white for a hatebear that's not a merfolk and also shuts off Silvergill Adept.



Okay I'm going to ignore that D&T doesn't have a good matchup against most builds of Miracles, partly because they're too disparate and partly because I know D&T players all believe that regardless.

This is still the wrong way to evaluate how to metagame. The point in building a maindeck is to present the strongest possible deck against the field as an average, not have the fewest possible bad matchups per se.

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Agree with you on Merfolk. Merfolk already has a good matchup vs most blue decks. Islandwalk and Vial making Merfolk dudes uncounterable. It's a little winmore IMO to run a card that hoses Brainstorm, ponder etc.

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Originally Posted by Adryan

Could be. But i doubt it with my 75 win % on Magic Online. I've noticed a high variance in this matchup, if both players are excellent, Death and Taxes is slightly favored. Please also note that I'm winning with Death and Taxes against Miracle (50 games with Death and Taxes; over 1000 games with Miracle in general). Your analysis that Death and Taxes is a swarm deck and loses to Terminus is wrong, Thalia SoFi and Karakas is enough. Every dumb better is enough with SoFi. Of course that's not everything the matchup is about, but yeah this is not the place to talk about that.

But so was your analysis about JTMS, so you should definetely reconsider your opinion about this matchup. Maybe do some serious testing against good players ;)

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If someone is dumb enough to think that either their win record on MTGO (right after claiming that most of their opponents are terrible,) or that I misevaluated one card five fucking years ago makes for a compelling argument, I'm not sure why I should take their opinion seriously in anything.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Plus, they can still play instant removal.

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I don't think this works since I happens during your draw step. I believe miracles would though?

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Originally Posted by kinda

I don't think this works since I happens during your draw step. I believe miracles would though?

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Assuming this is regarding Anvil of Bogardon, this works. The anvil is a triggered ability. You make your normal draw for turn, then the anvil trigger goes on the stack. At this point you get priority and can play instants.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

This is the 2nd time I've read something like this now. I think you're overestimating the penetration of non-blue decks in the meta. If you look at thecouncil's data for December 2013, 9 out of the top 10 decks (8 blue decks + Elves) will be greatly impacted by SoL. If you want to expand it further, 15 of the top 20 decks (14 blue decks + Elves) will be greatly impacted by SoL. I'm unclear as to what data you're looking at that leads you to believe that non-blue decks account for 40-50% of the meta; all data that I've seen shows that is clearly not the case.

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Ok I stand corrected.

I see UWR just boarding out Probes and maybe a few Ponders and bring in Wear / Tear and stomp all over D&T. Again I like the card but I think the format will adapt just fine and UWR remains uncontested as best deck in the format.

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Originally Posted by Mantis

Ok I stand corrected.

I see UWR just boarding out Probes and maybe a few Ponders and bring in Wear / Tear and stomp all over D&T. Again I like the card but I think the format will adapt just fine and UWR remains uncontested as best deck in the format.

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If UWR isn't holding Wear/Tear when SoL enters play... how do they find it? They board in 1, maybe 2 copies, then crutch hard on Brainstorm/Ponder to find their hate cards. Also, how does Wear/Tear do versus an active Mother of Runes?

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Originally Posted by Mantis

UWR remains uncontested as best deck in the format.

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No.

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Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin

....okay, now you guys are getting out of hand. I get it, it's the first really playable Legacy card from the set (Brimaz is maybe borderline,) but don't lose your shit.

It doesn't stop Top, it doesn't stop Jace really, just means that they can't activate one ability (of four.) What control deck even plays Ponder? It doesn't stop Ad Nauseam. Doesn't stop Stoneforge, doesn't stop Dark Confidant, doesn't stop Cascade. Doesn't stop Loam. It doesn't do shit to Emrakul, doesn't stop someone from just landing Griselbrand as a 7/7 flying lifelinker and beating your face in.

I think it's a very Legacy playable card, but it's not broken and it's not going to make blue suddenly not the best color, cool your damn jets.

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Personal attacks censored.
Instead of discussing all of the things this card can do, you focus on what it can't do. Bringing up edge cases to buttress a critical evaluation only does a disservice to the card and readers of your comment. Just a
s with Jace you focused primarily on edge cases - dying to Bolt, not keeping the board clear despite being in a control deck, ignoring repeated +0 activations - you do so here with this card by focusing on all of the non-draw "draw" in the format but missing the crux of the matter: that this will severely affect the core cantrips and draw spells of the most dominant strategy in the format.

Well sure there are going to be games where Mom gets active and Sol enters the battlefield and UWR cant counter it. But then again, you play 4 STP, 4 Bolt, counters and SFM for Jitte and the Wear/Tear blowout in addition so how often will it realistically happen. But again Im glad the format receives some extra tools to battle decks abusing too many cantrips. Exciting times though, looking forward to see how the format shapes up!

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Originally Posted by Finn

Yep. The stronger this guy is, the stronger Jund gets...unless it is so good that Zoo can re-enter.

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Brimaz is relatively strong against Jund though. Kind of cool to see white get multiple toys this set.

Spirit of the Labyrinth is a strong card which will likely impact legacy in one way or another. It's value is certainly being overestimated on these forums and around the web. I'm already seeing places on Ebay taking preorders for $10 a pop for one of these guys which is absurd for a hatebear that's still seeing print. That's absurd and it is certainly not that good. Especially when the decks that want this card are very few and specific.

I think it does more in vintage than legacy, but its something that will see play in Legacy because its a powerful effect on an efficient body.

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Originally Posted by MGB

This post is a perfect example of why your innate pessimism and contrarian attitude make your card evaluation sketchy. Instead of discussing all of the things this card can do, you focus on what it can't do. Bringing up edge cases to buttress a critical evaluation only does a disservice to the card and readers of your comment. Just a
s with Jace you focused primarily on edge cases - dying to Bolt, not keeping the board clear despite being in a control deck, ignoring repeated +0 activations - you do so here with this card by focusing on all of the non-draw "draw" in the format but missing the crux of the matter: that this will severely affect the core cantrips and draw spells of the most dominant strategy in the format.

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Doesn't your shitty MUC deck need attention?

Can you guys go blow each other on Facebook or something?

I read the article from Nagle today and he talked a bit about a "Persophone" card that seemed like a really cool card but it ended up getting cut, but he hinted that it may come back... Hopefully the next set. It was something like:

:g::b:
0/2
Legendary creature
Lands are Indestructible
When ~ is on the battlefield at the beginning of your upkeep, return a land from your graveyard to the battlefield.
When ~ is in the graveyard, at the beginning of your upkeep, you may sacrifice 2 lands to return ~ from the graveyard to the Battlefield.

Man this seems awesome. I hope that this sees the light of day in some form or fashion that isn't 1029380 mana.

That would've been a super neat toy for Loam.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Can you guys go blow each other on Facebook or something?

I read the article from Nagle today and he talked a bit about a "Persophone" card that seemed like a really cool card but it ended up getting cut, but he hinted that it may come back... Hopefully the next set. It was something like:

:g::b:
0/2
Legendary creature
Lands are Indestructible
When ~ is on the battlefield at the beginning of your upkeep, return a land from your graveyard to the battlefield.
When ~ is in the graveyard, at the beginning of your upkeep, you may sacrifice 2 lands to return ~ from the graveyard to the Battlefield.

Man this seems awesome. I hope that this sees the light of day in some form or fashion that isn't 1029380 mana.

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Oh my ... only bad thing is that it has negative synergy with Deathrite Shaman ...

*crosses fingers that it's actually a 1/1 for G with just the second ability and maybe something to protect itself like the third ability*

I think it is a really really cool card. They were afraid of it being busted with the standard version of wasteland which is why they tacked on the lands are indestructible portion. Goodness. I hope so much that this card sees the light of day. I love cards that revolve around lands.

It would be broken in Legacy. Casting cost is immaterial, you would just dredge it or discard it to Faithless Looting. Recurring Dark Depths combo while making it Wasteland proof though? Crazy good.