Commander 2014 thread

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Originally Posted by apple713

It is unreal how inconsistent the power levels of cards are. It's like they have a random card generator and then just assign mana costs....

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... And that's how chase rares are made.

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Originally Posted by Quizzlemanizzle

Nahiri sucks. Double white and 5cmc in a color without ramp, again just 3 starting loyalty and at 5 mana she seems considerably worse than 4cmc Elspeth

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aa...1d2a540q3j.png

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This planeswalker resembles Stoneforge Mystic suspiciously much.

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Originally Posted by Bobmans

This planeswalker resembles Stoneforge Mystic suspiciously much.

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Probably the same profession or a depiction of her as a non-legendary card for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by H

Even if we concede that Welder is better than this guy (highly debatable), you can run both in a deck, so, even if this is Welder 5-8 or whatever, that's still pretty good.

The fact that this guy only costs 1 Red is massive. A CMC of 4 is in that rarefied air for Planeswalkers and unfortunately, like Dack, this guy doesn't have an ability to really protect himself. I think this makes it a close but not quite for Legacy, but I think he will be playable in Vintage.

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I beg to differ. He can reanimate artifacts if you have to. There are creature artifacts. Even a timely Tangle Wire can protect this guy. As an old school MUD guy, imagine the interaction with Tangle Wire!

I've really been trying to figure out how to get Tangle Wire to work in Legacy. Having played a lot of Vintage, I know how effective the card can be versus decks with small board presence and many cantrips. Of course, Pyromancer is a foil to this, but early Wires can be an overwhelming advantage when you can back it up with a threat.

She's pretty clearly a Kor.
So saying she looks suspiciously like SFM is like saying Ashling the Pilgrim looks suspiciously like Flamekin Bladewhirl, Flamekin Brawler, or Flamekin Harbinger.

Or perhaps Kor Sanctifiers, Kor Spiritdancer, and Kor Hookmaster were all based on a card Wizards had no idea would become a Legacy staple...
Or maybe they are all just Kor. :rolleyes:



Nahiri is actually designed quite well despite the unrealistic expectations of many.
She protects herself with +2. She can recover destroyed equipment, which is card advantage. Her ultimate is actually very powerful when viewed in the correct context (meaning she wasn't intended to be a Legacy staple).

She comes out turn 5. She +2's for 4 turns. On turn 10 (which is when the Rules Committee feels it is time to start trying to win a game of EDH) she dumps out an equipment that basically helps you win in a turn or two.

MUD in legacy is unplayable however, the mana is impossible, and with bolts everywhere, metalworker isn't reliable either. You spend half of your games cursing your lands. Legacy MUD need a good sol land for artifact aside from Tomb.

A Blood Moon/Trinisphere + Tangle Wire lockout with Daretti sounds like fun to play, sure

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Originally Posted by Barook

Probably the same profession or a depiction of her as a non-legendary card for whatever reason.

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Possibly they had an artwork lying around and decided to use it.

I imagine this is also why the unstoppable and nigh-indestructible True-Name Nemesis is a fish guy with a knife.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

A Blood Moon/Trinisphere + Tangle Wire lockout with Daretti sounds like fun to play, sure

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So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

[...]

My only sads is that they didn't stick with the 'old walkers' theme - it would have been an entirely different card if it'd been Jaya, but god damn did I want it to be Jaya pretty badly. I was even willing to endure some stupid "well see, Ob-Nix is secretly an old walker because" bilge from the mothership. But nah, we have two olds and two news, makes me far less hopeful about the White one being Serra :/

[...]

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Serra would have been interesting. Although I'm not sure if Serra is really a person.
A white planeswalker for Angel concerns could be nice. :D

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Originally Posted by Barook

Probably the same profession or a depiction of her as a non-legendary card for whatever reason.

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Probably in disguise as an ordinary kor. ;)
I definitely think SFM is the Lithomancer, even the clothes and accessories look almost the same!

Well, the print in Commander 2014 makes it almost sure the Lithomancer won't enter the story of the Tarkir block. Sad.

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Originally Posted by rufus

So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.

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Are you suggesting that he try to build a deck around Daretti's -10 ability? The internet doesn't provide context. "Seems solid" feels sarcastic...

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Originally Posted by Barook

Looks like they took the promise about more consistent power/price level from last year after the TNN disaster and shat on it.

But JMTS/Liliana power level? Daretti is an interesting card, but let's get not ahead of ourselves here until he sees play in a proper shell.

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so far red is the only color that got any usable legacy cards AND it got multiple. maybe malicious affliction will see some play.

Daretti is different that JTMS/Liliana in the sense that he doesn't just go into every red deck, but the level of power he exhibits is defiantly on that level.

+2 faithless looting
-2 goblin welder
-10 really hard to loose...

The one problem with goblin welder is that it dies to everything, This does not.

Additionally, when used in conjunction with goblin welder, it creates consistency welder decks never had before.

when used with blue, you have access to dack fayden and transmute artifact that further support him

with such redundancy, multiple effects doing similar things, you can focus your strategy, and cards like liquimetal coating become ABSURD!

At this point with the above mentioned cards, you are now cycling through your deck, stealing you opponents permanents, reanimating amazing artifacts, and if opponent has an artifact in his grave you can effectively destroy the permanents.

So maybe its not that in a vacuum he's amazing, but he is the key to a new deck that has incredibly high potential to be amazing. examples of when decks become amazing are show and tell and sneak attack. when just 1 of them was used the deck was not consistent enough, but together both of them abusing big creatures, it is.

I call this the rule of 8. when you have 2 cards that both do very powerful things along the same lines, consistency can be established and a deck can then be formed. Without 8 cards in the deck, the odds of getting them are low enough that consistency becomes an issue.


if you are interested in discussing this more, i'll be posting in the forums under "new and developmental" to spur discussion of deck lists and such

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Originally Posted by Gheizen64

MUD in legacy is unplayable however, the mana is impossible, and with bolts everywhere, metalworker isn't reliable either. You spend half of your games cursing your lands. Legacy MUD need a good sol land for artifact aside from Tomb.

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Legacy MUD is very playable. The problem with MUD and every Tomb/City deck has always been inconsistency. It can blow you out with an early Chalice or a Trinisphere, or it can struggle to hit relevant cards.

The issue is not mana as much as card filtering and draw. This guy alleviates the problem somewhat by acting as a draw engine himself that also fills the graveyard for future shenanigans.

I'm of the opinion that a Planeswalker like this might just be enough to push MUD over the top if the right build emerges.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

She comes out turn 5. She +2's for 4 turns. On turn 10 (which is when the Rules Committee feels it is time to start trying to win a game of EDH) she dumps out an equipment that basically helps you win in a turn or two.

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Or they just exile/bounce/let you sac said "awesome" equipment token and you wasted tons of time for nothing.

The Ult would have been much cooler if it vomited out equipment from the library while reducing their equip cost to :0: until EoT.

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Originally Posted by joven

Although I'm not sure if Serra is really a person.

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Really? :eyebrow:

She's depicted on various cards, e.g. Humble or Congregate.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Or they just exile/bounce/let you sac said "awesome" equipment token and you wasted tons of time for nothing.

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Shit! You're right... I forgot "dies to removal" means you shouldn't use a card.
Forget everything I said about her, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by rufus

So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.

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Read the discussion in the mud thread
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...orker)/page104

You can actually ultimate with Tangle Wire and Contagion Engine

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Shit! You're right... I forgot "dies to removal" means you shouldn't use a card.
Forget everything I said about her, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

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No, it means that your huge time investment has a good chance of doing jackshit, especially when your opponent has several turns to prepare for it.

Point is that it's a rather underwhelming ultimate for its cost.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

... The internet doesn't provide context. "Seems solid" feels sarcastic...

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Can I take ambiguously ironic? I think that if you can get it on the table, "lock and loot" in dragon stompy shells will probably win games, but that it's a little strange to be (effectively) ignoring both of the 'minus' abilities on the planeswalker.

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Originally Posted by apple713

so far red is the only color that got any usable legacy cards AND it got multiple. maybe malicious affliction will see some play.

Daretti is different that JTMS/Liliana in the sense that he doesn't just go into every red deck, but the level of power he exhibits is defiantly on that level.

+2 faithless looting
-2 goblin welder
-10 really hard to loose...

The one problem with goblin welder is that it dies to everything, This does not.

Additionally, when used in conjunction with goblin welder, it creates consistency welder decks never had before.

when used with blue, you have access to dack fayden and transmute artifact that further support him

with such redundancy, multiple effects doing similar things, you can focus your strategy, and cards like liquimetal coating become ABSURD!

At this point with the above mentioned cards, you are now cycling through your deck, stealing you opponents permanents, reanimating amazing artifacts, and if opponent has an artifact in his grave you can effectively destroy the permanents.

So maybe its not that in a vacuum he's amazing, but he is the key to a new deck that has incredibly high potential to be amazing. examples of when decks become amazing are show and tell and sneak attack. when just 1 of them was used the deck was not consistent enough, but together both of them abusing big creatures, it is.

I call this the rule of 8. when you have 2 cards that both do very powerful things along the same lines, consistency can be established and a deck can then be formed. Without 8 cards in the deck, the odds of getting them are low enough that consistency becomes an issue.


if you are interested in discussing this more, i'll be posting in the forums under "new and developmental" to spur discussion of deck lists and such

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Well I love coming up with decklists out of the blue. . . . how would this look like?

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Fetch Land
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Island

4 Mox Diamond
4 Treasure Cruise

4 Goblin Welder
4 Daretti
4 Dack fayden

2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Liquid Metal Coating
3 Sundering Titan
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Would TC even be good in this? Probably not now that I think about it. . . .