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Bant Deathblade
Esperblade
UWR Stoneblade
Esper Deathblade
U/W Blade Control
and probably also those UWR Control / UWR Landstill lists play SFM.
And of course there are DnT, Maverick, Eldrazi & Taxes and others playing the SFM package. But no, Miracles didn't push blade decks out of the format. :]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
Specifically he said:
Bant Deathblade (X DRS, X Hierarch, probably 3-4 / 4)
Esper Stoneblade (0 DRS)
Esper Deathblade (4 DRS)
U/W Blade Control (0 DRS)
Long story short:
Stoneblade or Blade Control = Stoneforge + Stuff, no DRS
Deathblade => Stoneforge + Stuff + DRS
For example, not shown is:
Bant Stoneblade (0 DRS, Hierarch + 0-4 GSZ)
which answers your second line.
Pretty much. The 8 Bant Deathblade decks like this all have DRS, Hierarch, Daze, Decay, Leovold, less discard.
The 5 Esperblade decks like this all have :w::u::b: spells, no DRS, no Hierarch, no Leovold, no Decay.
The Esper Deathblade deck has DRS, :w::u::b: spells, no Hierarch, no Leovold, no Decay.
But I can categorize them differently, no biggie.
Meta analysis for the Axion GPT, plust top8 an top16 deck lists
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...ists-metagame/
Small update, two tournaments:
4Seasons Spring - Bologna, 130 players, May 14
R/G Lands, ANT, Tezzeret Control, Aluren, Shardless BUG, Grixis Tempo, Grixis Control, Death & Taxes
晴れる屋レガシー杯, 41 players, May 14
Sneak & Show, ANT, Death & Taxes, ANT, Esperblade, Dredge, Reanimator Depths, Dredge
Following TCDecks/The Source's system, decks get 1 point for each round of the tournament, plus 1 point for each top 8 match won
1925 total points
59 different placing archetypes in 6+ round tournaments from April 24 to now
DTB ≥ 88.55 points
Post-Top DTBs so far: Grixis Tempo, ANT, Sneak & Show, Death & Taxes, Infect, U/R Delver
Grixis Tempo: 201
ANT: 125
Sneak & Show: 115
Death & Taxes: 93
Infect: 90
U/R Delver: 89
OmniTell: 82
Elves: 75
Team America: 70
Bant Deathblade: 68
Eldrazi: 66
B/R Reanimator: 56
Grixis Control: 47
Esperblade: 44
41 Points: Burn, Lands
UWR Stoneblade: 38 (moved UWR Control's 9 points here. It was basically UWR Stoneblade with MD Blood Moon)
Czech Pile: 37
Aluren: 36
Food Chain: 31
Jund: 31
Dredge: 27
Aggro Loam: 26
U/B Reanimator: 22
20 Points: Dragon Stompy, Eldrazi & Taxes
19 Points: Maverick, Merfolk, Nic Fit, U/R Control
16 Points: Esper Delver, Tin Fins
15 Points: BUG Leovold, Reanimator Depths, UWR Delver
Shardless BUG: 14
4c Delver: 10
9 Points: Canadian Thresh, Imperial Painter, Mono-Red Sneak Attack, Slivers, Tezzeret Control, UWR Landstill
8 Points: Junk, U/R Standstill
7 Points: Dark Depths, Pox, Splinter Twin
6 Points: 12-Post, Belcher, Big Eldrazi, BUG unclassified, BWG unclassified, Devoted Maverick Combo, Doomsday, Esper Deathblade, Oops, All Spells, TES, U/W Blade Control
2 combo decks, 3 tempo decks, and 1 aggro/prison deck. Next 3 decks down the list are also tempo and combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
I'm aware the meta is not at all stable and we shouldn't read too much into it. Nonetheless - yuch!
I agree with you completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
I'm desperate for some sort of hard control list to still be viable, but all my testing is leading to a lot of losing. I'm starting to think CounterTop was a necessary evil for Legacy to remain "balanced".
I, for one, would be really happy to see a non-control, non-combo aggro deck rise in the new metagame. I feel like it's time for aggro to get some time in the sun, and I hate white cards.
Anybody playing Burn tested Harsh Mentor? Preliminary impression is that it feels good, man.
EDIT: DracoOccisor, how is it more unbalanced now that there isn't a single best deck? I'm not trying to be snide; I just don't understand why people think it's worse to have a number of combo decks and aggro-control decks vie for the top slot than it is to have a "gatekeeper" that loses to that one deck in twenty that has a favorable matchup.
It actually did. Both (blue) Blade decks and Standstill were strictly worse in that you didn't just win games because you could go T1 Top, T2 CB (and that 1, 2 I win combo was just as effective later in a game). There's a very real difference between having to draw and pace out the right answers and tapping a land or artifact to completely invalidate any advantage a new turn gave an opponent - for a lot of decks you may as well have been staring down Volt. Key + Time Vault.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDK
"The Deck" control types that weren't miracles didn't have a degenerate combo themselves and they didn't have good ways to beat that CB/SDT combo while trying to play the same style of draw-go magic. These non-miracles decks have always been good enough to compete versus the field...where they'll never have to face miracles; you do have that part correct.
Miracles was the best deck, but we generally had a better variety of play-styles. Hard control took 10-20% of the meta, and the other 80-90% was a mix of tempo, midrange, and combo, with prison (Lands) occasionally making a splash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Our current stats show the best decks to be almost entirely combo and tempo.
A format where every non-combo deck is aggro-control is not very diverse. Some people are fine with this, but some of us were hoping that a new hard control deck might emerge and/or linear aggro decks might shine again. Not only is this not happening so far, but on top of that the format's other control deck (Lands) seems to be in a lull.
Again, the new meta is still in its infancy. But preliminary reports are not very encouraging.
Eh, give it some time. Git Probe is dictating the meta (Grixis Pyro, SnT, ANT) and then you have Elves running around saying "your fair deck isn't good enough, lower your floor." You may not like this next part, but this is where UB Reanimator should really start to exert its positive influence on the meta and weed out the really offensive linear stuff. Eventually we should see combo-control (UB Reanimator and SnT) start especially destroying B/R Reanimator's meta share moreso because of the environment they foster rather than their head-to-head matchup vs B/R.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Now you can also assess the meta from different points, and it would be totally fair to say the meta looks like x because of Grixis good stuff vs Chalice/Turbomoon. There's also plenty of decks doing just fine like Turbo [Depths], Food Chain, and Infect...but I think you'd be harder pressed to prove these decks really warped the meta around them. Then you have your commonplace assassins doing just fine, the tempo stuff which you've referenced (I'd include counterburn aka U/R Delver prime among that group).
From my viewpoint in legacy, we'll have combo-control lay down the law, then you'll have ANT & Elves browbeat people into making good decks, and the Delver stuff is just gonna be there doin' its thing. At this point it should be more clear to DnT, Lands, Blade, and perhaps even Standstill what it is exactly that they should be doing.
edit: I will say that Sanctum Prelate isn't doing anyone any favors in the control department; that internal strife of DnT x=2 Prelate vs Lands doesn't help either of you. Now you get more of this RUG Lands durdle nonsense with EE + recursion which really cripples Lands ability to exert its influence upon the meta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
What about these predict miracles list showing up? I'm sure as soon as people hop on board with these lists that people will either find a weakness or it will prove to be a strong control deck.
Actually I just saw that list (since my last post). Hopefully it will have some staying power.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...gue-2017-05-19
@Fox,
Absolutely I will give it time!
However, I do not think the Reanimator or S&T are combo/control. The commander ntrol elements are sparse and primarily there to protect the combo.
Combo control would be something like RGCL or Spiral Tide. Decks that are dedicated to defense and stalling the opponent before trying to "go off".
The last 3 weeks is the first time we have had an unsolved legacy meta in 5 years.
Get used to it.
Enjoying this dynamic shifting meta.
Having a best deck =/= a solved meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormod
I am enjoying the dynamic meta very much - but I'll enjoy it a lot more if and when hard control starts putting numbers! I'd like to see some aggro too.
I'm genuinely curious as to what the stats on top-8s by the new crop of T1s would have been a month or two ago if Miracles's share of the meta were removed from the total. In other words, if, say, 15% of the meta before the ban were Miracles, if one were to excise the deck from the total (leaving us with a total comprising 85% of the actual total), what would the resultant percentages look like for the other decks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
I know what you're saying about how the field doesn't look great at this stage; I just think that with Miracles gone, simply comparing pre- and post-ban top-8 percentages might not be telling the whole story.
I'm totally prepared to be proven to have no idea what I'm talking about, too.
That's an easy conversion, if I understand you correctly (eg, a deck with an 8.5% total share had a 10% share of the non-miracles decks). Those would be the decks that did well in a Miracles meta though, not sure what value that data would have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
Yeah, not many decks are still hobbling themselves with Abrupt Decay (because its not good compared to 1 mana kill spell + SCM). Changes are taking place at the mana base and color inclusion level, and control doesn't get to hide behind 6 basics anymore. I don't think you can make direct comparison anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
Meta talk is so fucking lame, i'll enter a tourney with dredge and hammer-spike your entire fnm. Seriously, spend more time playing your deck that you enjoy than worrying about what potentially could be across from you.
Are you really going to dominate with Dredge when you are basically in Deathrite Shaman: The Meta? 4 deathrite 2 surgical is all over the place