I just received an Underground Sea and a Tundra. Would there be any reason to splash black or white into the deck?
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I just received an Underground Sea and a Tundra. Would there be any reason to splash black or white into the deck?
No, there has yet to be a reason where the costs outweigh the benefits.
For completeness' sake:
Orim's Chant was sorcery-speed Tide's best hope against instant-speed Tide, but instant-speed itself hasn't ever had a reason to splash.
I think the reason for no splash is basically that there's a 10% chance minimum that you will see the dual in a game, even if you don't want to and be forced to play it (it's probably closer to 15% of seeing it, compensated by any "mana floods"). About half the time, Goblins will have the Wasteland. With the game between the two being such a race, any land getting wasted basically ends any chance of you winning the game. So, you're throwing away at least 5% of your games that you have a chance in against the most played deck in the format, in a matchup that's already 50-50. Ick.
edit: As Goblins is probably the only matchup that really needs work that can be easily fixed, the only reason I can see to splash is for some wishable mass removal, namely:
Firestorm
Sandstorm
Rain of Blades
Scorching Winds
Wail of the Nim (um, no)
so every other color does have an option, but could any other wish target be any help? White has Orim's Chant/Abeyance and Pure Intentions (Sirocco. Heh. But probably the danger of cool things.) Red has REB and artifact destruction. Green has Moment's Peace. These might be worth it, but if anyone's tested it, they'd know better than I would.
Even a straight trade of Firestorm for Evacuation (this DOES solve the True Believer problem) without even REB may be worth it. It can even let you win small (ie don't force them to draw a card when you've milled them) vs goblins when they're about to attack for lethal (if you honestly don't have the 1 extra mana for Words, of course). This is all theory though, and that wasteland percentage is frightening.
I guess the best support for Firestorm is the following:
Turn 1:
You: Land, EOT dig
Them: Mountain, Lackey
Turn 2:
You: Land, EOT dig
Them: Mountain, swing, drop warchief, play piledriver, fanatic/nothing
Turn 3:
You: Fetch
Them: Mountain, Matron->Piledriver, swing for the winz0rz
You: Fetch Volc, High Tide, Wish (tapping Volc for R), Firestorm for 2.
Now, you ARE giving up 4 cards. But you're at the least gaining parity, and possible card advantage in a scenario like this. You might even strand a Ringleader in hand if they don't have the last mana source. You significantly hurt your own hand, but you still have a much better chance than straight up trying to combo. Fizzle from drawing too much land? If you have 4 mana and the wish, you can make those lands do something.
Hi, I'm new, and I've just started reading this thread. I've got a question for Deep6er (or anyone else who'd like to answer it for me).
You were discussing flash of insight on page 5, and an "anti-fizzling" trick of yours. I don't quite follow...
"All you have to do is freeze yourself and then once you've hit the flash, interrupt the stack, stack your deck, and win the game"
What do you mean by "interrupting the stack"? Don't you have to chose all the targets for brain freeze before they resolve? Doesn't this mean that if you're unlucky you might just end up milling yourself for a lot of cards, made useless in the graveyard? And isn't there a risk that you mill too many vital cards so that when you hit flash there are too few cards left in your deck in order to go off and win?
Btw... what is the "Mike Long impulse draw 4" trick?
Thanx!
You have two Flash of Insights in the deck. The chances of removing every vital spell before you hit the Flash is low.
In order to prevent this occurance you stop the other copies of Brain Freeze resolving once the Flash is in the graveyard.
So the stack will be from top to bottom
Flash of Insight
Brain Freeze Copies that haven't resolved
Original Brain Freeze
As for the "Mike Long impulse draw 4" trick?
It is a job suggesting that he was cheating.
As for splashing red for removal.
That is awful.
For Goblins you have the blast plan games 2 and 3 and FOW game 1 to slow them down if need be. Discarding your hand to stop Goblins for a turn is not the way to win with a combo deck that wants cards in hand.
Can Ray D 3 or anyone else post a working (as in not dead) link to a thread were the sorcery speed solidarity deck list is posted? Or post it here? All I've encountered so far is dead links. Pretty please, with sugar on top, I'd really like to see it.
Here. And its called Spring Tide.
So, in playtesting for the GP, I have begun using solidarity. In all of my testing though, solidarity has been loosing almost everything to all of my test decks except RGSA. My burn, for example is 95-5 against it. Since solidarity has been doing so well recently, this surprises me.
I am running the list posted by "Jeska" a few pages back, with a few minor SB alterations. I seem to absolutely HAVE to have a high tide(or draw into one) to go off anytime before like turn 7. To go off turns 3/4, I often have to have a perfectly sculpted hand, and draw into the right cards. I have been using all of the little tricks and statistics (brain freeze yourself to get a flash of insight=tech), but haven't had any luck whatsoever.
I'm asking for tips and technique on playing this, because I can't understand for the life of me how this deck is doing so well! Am I unlucky? Giant sampling error? Just plain don't know how to play the thing (I hope)? Or does the deck just suck this hard? Convince me otherwise!
Ben-
@ Killer White Rabbit: Just for clarification that is Deep6ers build (He invented the deck). That is the optimal build out right now (as far as I`ve been told). When I started out playing Solidarity I lost alot. The best advice I could suggest is just stick with it, the more you play it the better you become with it. Since I learned how to play it and play it correctly I have been undefeted with it (and I`m playing the same build as I posted a few pages back).
As for your turn 7 problem, I dont know what to say there, I can go off turn 4 consistently. At times I have gone off on turn 3.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I haven't seen any discussion about this, but is it possible to cast High Tide on the opponent's turn, after end of turn triggers, and have an untap with High Tide still in effect? This could help Spring Tide tremendously, and benefit Solidarity in some instances. Playing the mirror match and sometimes against Lamestill I have a tendency to combo during my turn. This is because when playing against another Solidarity player, I often pass by Resets in an effort not to be caught with useless cards when he tries his thing. High Tide and Turnabouting the other player when your hand is just right would put you at a huge advantage.
As far as the burn matchup goes, that should be at least 50/50 pre-sideboard. You are almost certainly playing the deck wrong if your figures are that bad. The funny thing about a storm combo deck like Solidarity is that there are so many decisions to make that you can't just grab the deck and start winning. It really is a deck that you have to be taught to play well. My play style comes from my own judgements and the little tournament experience that I get. I make bad decisions, but some styles of play with Solidarity are worse than others.
Some things that I've seen really bad (worse than myself) players do:
Fetching without a spell to cast in longer matchups: Against decks like Landstill, Wombat, and Solidarity you really want to hit lands drops. Fetching decreases your chances of drawing land. If you fear Stifle, that Stifle isn't going anywhere anyways. The same situation is true for not fetching while going off. Drawing into a Brainstorm/fetch combo is not as beneficial as not drawing lands.
Fetching before Brainstorm: Half the reason fetchlands are in the deck is for Brainstorm. You'd better have a phenomenal hand if your going to do this.
Not casting spells, only dropping lands: I've seen Solidarity players do this, on the basis that they'll have a higher storm count when they go off if they don't put all those spells in the graveyard the first few turns. I liken this to losing cards to Millstone.
There are plenty of other bad play mistakes that I see made, such as attempting to kill early or Mystical Tutor, but those you can quickly learn from.
You are wrong.Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I haven't seen any discussion about this, but is it possible to cast High Tide on the opponent's turn, after end of turn triggers, and have an untap with High Tide still in effect? This could help Spring Tide tremendously, and benefit Solidarity in some instances. Playing the mirror match and sometimes against Lamestill I have a tendency to combo during my turn. This is because when playing against another Solidarity player, I often pass by Resets in an effort not to be caught with useless cards when he tries his thing. High Tide and Turnabouting the other player when your hand is just right would put you at a huge advantage.
Until End of Turn does in fact mean until the end of the turn. You are thinking of things that trigger AT end of turn.
I took this to mean that you fetch immediately before playing draw spells, instead of holding off in the hopes that you will draw a Brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by herbig
I will argue that you almost always should hold off on fetching, because drawing a Brainstorm is both more likely and more desirable than drawing 1 less land due to the thinning effect.
Taking 1 land out of a deck with 14 or so left in it does not decrease your odds of drawing a land much at all (less than 2% in most cases). That small change does not translate into a high chance of actually seeing 1 less land until you have drawn quite a few cards (and probably won).
The Brainstorm + fetch combination is worth drawing an extra land, anyway, because it allows you to get rid of the 2 worst cards in your hand (probably lands). So, it is close in effect to drawing 2 less lands.
Overall, fetching beforehand decreases the quality of your topdecks, instead of increasing it, because the damage it does to the power of Brainstorm outweighs the small effect of the deckthinning.
While Obfuscate Freely is correct all that analysis is meaningless once you reach a point that you are going to cast an untap effect. Then you are no longer talking about potential thinning and card quality but mana that you are losing. Pissing away mana so you could make a possible future brainstorm better is silly.
I agree with Ewokslayer completly. There really isn't too much of a reason to hold back on your little fetchlands. Hell, my version plays 8x fetch and I still generally pop them off when I draw them, mostly becuase I do like the awesomeness of having my mana there right then, and also having lots of cards to dig with for more mana. Lately, though, I've started to wonder about the mirror match. I've heard how horrid it is (It's one of those things where you will only get through the first game), but how exactly do you play against the mirror match? Do you usually try to upkeep turnabout the oppoenet if you think your hand is that good? What cards (other than twincast) Shine in the matchup? What cards are lame? If I am serious about bringing this deck to philidelphia, I need to know this information.
In my experience the worst card to have in the mirror is Reset. Since you can't really be sure when someone is going to make a move, Reset's restriction of only being play after your opponent's upkeep makes it dead. Turnabout, Force of Will, Twincast, and Brainfreeze are generally the cards you're looking for. I would usually wait, dropping lands until the opponent combos, so that I don't have to have High Tide, and combo in response to their draw spell. Since there is usually a lot of mana flying around, attempt to hardcast your Forces to save yourself the card. Also remember to use Flash of Insight when you get Brainfreezed.
Well, It really seems like (I've never acually tested the mirror, I NEED some help with that, IM Me for MWS testing) that the mirror is all about trying to get a turn your opponent is weak. Also, remeber that because of how reset is worded, you can twincast your opponent's reset and untap your lands, thanks to the neat way copies work. I think I would probibly side like -2 reset +1 Twincast +1 Turnabout from the board, thanks to wish targets. I think having twincast superiority is probiblyt he key in the match, as both decks can dig for exactly what they need once they are comboing. The stack probibly gets really messy, too.
I think the mirror revolves around one card: Mana Short. It can cut the legs right out from underneath someone who's trying to go off when you play it in response to a draw spell... I don't know if it's a commonly accepted card for the SB of this deck, but if you're expecting the mirror, it's definitely worth packing.
What does Mana Short do that Turnabout does not?
Not allow them to float mana in response. The only time a Turnabout would actually be important is if you did it in response to a High Tide, in which case neither of you has mana.
-Slay