[Deck] U/R Delver

I'm testing an experimental list, with white for steppe lynx (in order to have a third guy in addition to delver and guide) and lightning helix (that is so useful against mirror and burn).

4 Steppe Lynx
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin guide
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain ligtning
3 Lightning helix
3 Thunderous Wrath

3 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plateau
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Arid Mesa

Still tuning the sideboard, but it will look like this:
3 submerge
3 surgical extraction
3 flusterstorm/mindbreak trap/something vs combo
2 smash to smitheerens
2 sulfuric vortex
2 reb

You should take a look at this thread then: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...u-x-Blue-Sligh

How do you guys deal with a turn 0 leyline of sanctity?

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Originally Posted by Jacemindbreak

How do you guys deal with a turn 0 leyline of sanctity?

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Sulfuric Vortex you.
And Delver damage.

This deck tends to run out of steam. How come no one runs reforge the souls as a 2 or 3 of?

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

This deck tends to run out of steam. How come no one runs reforge the souls as a 2 or 3 of?

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7-8 Cantrips + Snapcaster + Grim Lavamancer + every topdeck has a high chance to be exactly what we need: Damage or something to dig for it.

Reforge the soul would just make us mulliganing more often, or hoping we didn't draw it the turn we did. For arguments about brainstorming Miracles, see the last pages.

Btw I won a GPT for Ghent today with UR Delver and I will post a short report later or tomorrow.

I also won GPT Gent :smile: (didn't even know it was GPT, I thought random legacy event with high entry). Can't use byes, I won a spot in national team so money goes elsewhere :laugh:

20 lands (people are trying with 18-19, I believe in less mulligans)

4 Delver
4 Snap
4 Guide
3 Lavamancer

4 Bolt
4 Chain
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Price
3 Force
3 Pierce
1 Daze

Cards I was juggling at last minute was Fire/ice, Fork Bolt, Thunderous Wrath (all in Chain Lightning spot because I hate that card) but I didn't want to destroy deck with random tinkering.

Side:
3 Submerge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Force
1 Pierce
2 Smash to Smitheerens
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Reb
1 Echoing Truth

And my team just won against Ireland in football. Life is good :wink:

Congratulations, I won the GPT with a similar list:

Creatures (14)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Lavamancer

Countersuite (8)
4 Spell Pierce
2 Daze
2 Force of Will

Burnspells (11)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress

Cantrips (8)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Lands (19)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Island

Sideboard (15)
2 Force of Will
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Submerge
2 Red Elemental Blasts
2 Smash to Smithereens

Round 1 vs BUG Control
Game 1: He goes down to 8 and I topdeck a lethal PoP.
Game 2: I make a pretty stupid mistake by fetching for a mountain first (didn't want to lose my first land to Wasteland) and Volcanic second, just to not have Spell Pierce mana up to protect my just played Delver and the T1 Goblin Guide against Deed. Luckily I draw enough fuel and he even makes some mistakes, like discarding the wrong card to his Liliana and miscounting his lands to not be able to flashback Spell Pierce with Snapcaster.

1:0

Round 2 vs Punishing Blade
Game 1: Three Goblin Guides. The End.
Game 2: He manages to get a Batterskull on the field at five lifepoints.
Game 3: Everything is getting countered until he gets his Punishing-Combo online and I just draw 4-5 Fetchlands..

Flusterstorm demolished me in the last two games.

1:1

Round 3 vs Dredge
Game 1: He mulligans to 3 and cannot do anything against a turn 2 flipped Delver plus backup.
Game 2: My starting hand contained two lands, two Surgical Extractions, a Snapcaster and a Delver, which flips on turn 2 again and I draw two additional Delvers.

2:1

Round 4 vs UWG Counterbalance with Engineered Explosives and Chalice
Game 1: A single Guide paired with burn and counters gets him to 0.
Game 2: I run out of options with him at two life, but Elspeth + Army on the board.
Game 3: Chalice gets countered and Goblin Guide + Delver are scary enough.

3:1

Round 5 vs Infect
Game 1: I didn't know much about this matchup, so I kept an aggressive hand and got poisoned to death at turn 3.
Game 2: Turn 2 flipped Delver presents the clock and burn + counters in combination with Snapcaster keep the board clean.
Game 3: Goblin Guide shows me his draws and I can keep him from attacking with Submerge and Lavamancer.

4:1

Semi-Finals vs Dredge
He concedes after five minutes of brainstorming, because he won't attend to the GP.

Finals vs Infect (same player as before)
Game 1: Turn 2 infect kill. :/
Game 2: He mulligans to 6, but draws 7. The judge chooses two random cards, which he has to shuffle back. He is still snap-keeping, which makes me worry, but I draw a shitload of burn to keep him from doing anything noxious.
Game 3: I draw the ultimate starting seven against Infect: Land, Submerge, Force, Force, Chain Lightning, Spell Pierce and Brainstorm. I don't draw a second land for quite some turns, but he isn't able to fight against my hand and can only get me to 9 poison (desperate attack), before a Delver and double Guide swing in for lethal.

I will most likely go up to 4 SnapM und 20 lands, because they were really good this time.

Question. Chalice basically kills this deck.

So is it a good idea to play the new M13 card Smelt for artifact removal or keep smash to smithereens. Or Ignot.

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Chalice basically kills this deck.

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Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow

Question. Chalice basically kills this deck.

So is it a good idea to play the new M13 card Smelt for artifact removal or keep smash to smithereens. Or Ignot.

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Just think about what Smelt can do against Chalice @ 1...

@H3llsp4wn: congrats and nice deck list (thank you for sharing).

I run my Sulfuric Vortex maindeck and PoP in the Sideboard; but that is Meta specific as I see more U/W Stoneblade and less RUG than most Meta's I guess (most guys here run their Basic Lands first to thwart Wastelands, etc).

I do run 4x Snapcaster; but only 2x Grim. I also run a little more control with 3x FoW, 3x Daze, 3x Spell Pierce but slightly fewer Ponder with only 2x in this spot. This allowed me the 20th land as I also found I needed it.

The deck is fun, but right now there are a few too many Izzet Delver decks in my area so mine will probably stay on the shelf for a while as I run my Solidarity or something else that flies under the radar.

Good discussion but what is with the concern on Chalice, it's not an auto loss for us as we do have a control suit to prevent it, etc. If we worried about everything that might hurt us, we would never play at all.

The discussion is about what can be done against a resolved Chalice @ 1. Countering with 2-3 FoW isn't always an option, so our artifact removal comes into play.

Smelt and Crush cannot do anything in this situation, but Smash to Smithereens and Shattering Spree can. Of course, Chalice isn't the only or the main reason to play artifact hate (hello Jitte and Batterskull), but it's additional value.

Supreme, I'd definitely play a combo-deck in your meta over a heavily modified UR list (because it's weaker in the mirror match). :)

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

The discussion is about what can be done against a resolved Chalice @ 1. Countering with 2-3 FoW isn't always an option, so our artifact removal comes into play.

Smelt and Crush cannot do anything in this situation, but Smash to Smithereens and Shattering Spree can. Of course, Chalice isn't the only or the main reason to play artifact hate (hello Jitte and Batterskull), but it's additional value.

Supreme, I'd definitely play a combo-deck in your meta over a heavily modified UR list (because it's weaker in the mirror match). :)

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Obviously I played against MUD in the Legacy Open Sunday. Crush was the worst, but I got there anyway. Costing 1 was relevant in the matchups I wanted it for though.

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Originally Posted by Andrew.Schneider

Obviously I played against MUD in the Legacy Open Sunday. Crush was the worst, but I got there anyway. Costing 1 was relevant in the matchups I wanted it for though.

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Are MUD and friends getting more popular in the SCG Open? I could imagine playing Smelt, but I'd curse myself, if I lose to a Chalice. :/

How did you do in the Open this Sunday? Mind posting a short list of the matchups and results?

Shattering spree still seems like the best option here. Sorcery speed Smelt that can blow up Chalice at 1 and 2? I mean Vexing Shusher is still a card, but this deck doesn't really seem like it can afford +1 cmc on everything, and it's really not applicable in other matchups.

I don't like the sorcery speed, which is why I don't run Spree.

Augur of Bolas

This is a great card to help dig and find answers and burn.

Great for chump blocking and great for just dealing damage if need be.

What do you guys think

Augur of Bolas doesn't as easily let you hold up mana for countermagic and decide what combination of instant-speed spells to cast in any situation, but Snapcaster does both of these things. Users here seem skeptical enough of Snapcaster for being too slow, not always running 4, so why should we play a replica that doesn't even reliably get an extra spell? Augur is also a terrible attacker.

Any creature that can block is "great for chump blocking." A 1/3 is not "great for just dealing damage." And only "if need be" is the wrong way to approach this, since a burn deck should always be seeking to deal damage efficiently.

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

Are MUD and friends getting more popular in the SCG Open? I could imagine playing Smelt, but I'd curse myself, if I lose to a Chalice. :/

How did you do in the Open this Sunday? Mind posting a short list of the matchups and results?

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I don't think they're very popular but I saw at least 2 people playing it. I did pretty bad in the invitational in the Legacy section but I did well enough in standard to top 64 and money. In the legacy open Sunday I started 6-0 (playing u/r of course) and then lost 2 win and ins in a row. Drew in round 9 for top 32. I may go through my note pad later in the week to post the matchups. I know I didn't like playing against reanimator the 2 times I did in the invi.

Thanks and yeah, Reanimator is a pain in the ass, especially now that it's seeing more play again.

I am still pondering about 1-2 Gilded Drake in the sideboard, if SnT and Griselbrand continue to show up in high numbers.

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Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn

Thanks and yeah, Reanimator is a pain in the ass, especially now that it's seeing more play again.

I am still pondering about 1-2 Gilded Drake in the sideboard, if SnT and Griselbrand continue to show up in high numbers.

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Gilded Drake is insanely funny and appropriate for those match ups. Nice and I would love to see more people playing that hoser card.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by SupREME-10

Gilded Drake is insanely funny and appropriate for those match ups. Nice and I would love to see more people playing that hoser card.

Cheers

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I had a gilded drake in the board, it was pretty good.

Andrew - I can't find your list on the SCG decklist page, could you post it? Would you change anything to the main or side? I'll be playing U/R in Detroit and am just trying to optimize the list first. My current sideboard idea is:

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Submerge
2 Crush
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Mind Harness
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Gilded Drake

I like the Mind Harnesses because I can bring them in against Maverick or against red decks like Burn and Goblins (otherwise the boarding plan against Burn is just sad), but I'm thinking about dropping the Vortexes and bringing the Crushes up to 3 or 4, to make sure I don't lose to Batterskull or Jitte.

How was Crush, compared to Smash to Smithereens?

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Originally Posted by kihachi

Andrew - I can't find your list on the SCG decklist page, could you post it? Would you change anything to the main or side? I'll be playing U/R in Detroit and am just trying to optimize the list first. My current sideboard idea is:

3 Surgical Extraction
2 Submerge
2 Crush
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Mind Harness
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Gilded Drake

I like the Mind Harnesses because I can bring them in against Maverick or against red decks like Burn and Goblins (otherwise the boarding plan against Burn is just sad), but I'm thinking about dropping the Vortexes and bringing the Crushes up to 3 or 4, to make sure I don't lose to Batterskull or Jitte.

How was Crush, compared to Smash to Smithereens?

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Yeah, they never post mine unless I top 8. Not sure why Glen Jones hates me haha. This is what I played on Sunday:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Red Fetches
4 Blue Fetches

Side:
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Submerge
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Crush
1 Gilded Drake
1 Force of Will

Mind Harness is probably a good call. I think it goes in place over submerge though, not sure you need both. I think cutting vortex is a bad idea. I didnt realize at first but it really trumps grislebrand, turns off the only relevant part against us. Same with batterskull. I liked crush, but smash is probably a little bit better most of the time. Hope that helps :)

Hah, Glenn Jones, he plays U/R too! He should be making a point of posting the decklist...

Anyway, I guess the Mind Harness/Submerge count in my sideboard comes down to, do I want 4 SB options vs. Maverick and 3 vs. Dredge, or vice versa.

Two questions for everyone: What all do you bring in Sulfuric Vortex against? And what do people think of Vexing Devil?

Are there any Thunderous Wrath lists putting up much results ?

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Originally Posted by menace13

Are there any Thunderous Wrath lists putting up much results ?

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http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/bus...ide=&strict=on

Hi guys,

I'm contemplating running UR Delver in a upcoming tourney and if I do well then maybe GP Gent as well. I'm a constructed player first and legacy player second and because of this I'm a bit wary to purchase Force of Will's since their price is pretty steep.

The question pertaining the matter is the following: Is the Dave Shiels built (not running FoW) worse than the stock versions? And if not in what manner is it different?

My first inclination is that the Combo MU's are effected in a negative way by removing FoW from the main deck. Removing force how ever does give you more reach and the option to be more aggressive to the more controllish built when running force.

Is it wrong to opt not to run force in order to save some money as supposed to running (probably) a better built?

Hi!.

Running FOW's is a big point of discussion, there's some people who argues running Spell Pierce+Daze MD plus Flusterstorm on SB is the correct way to go because FOW is a 2x1 against us and every blue card in the deck is important ir order to not running out of gas.

Other, like me, think FOW is the best defense against combo, for me, is not a question of number of counterspells-i only run 8 post side-, is a question of quality, yeah, FOW is a 2x1, so against "fair" decks you side them out. Personally i don't like Daze at all in this deck, so running Spell pierce+FOW makes me feel more safe against unfair decks.

I think you can be succesfull without FOW anyway, try without them in different combo matchups -S&Tell and Storm- if you find Daze is inefficent without mana denial and really bad on the draw (as i found) buy the FOWs:wink:.

If you are going to a GP and continue to play Legacy, I'd strongly recommend you to buy the FoWs, as you are most likely going to need them in nearly every blue deck.

I asked Dave at the invitational why he didn't have them in his list. His answer was that he couldn't find any to borrow before the tournament. He said he was planning on playing my list, but that he didnt really miss them during the tourney (dodged combo)

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Originally Posted by Barnie25

Hi guys,

I'm contemplating running UR Delver in a upcoming tourney and if I do well then maybe GP Gent as well. I'm a constructed player first and legacy player second and because of this I'm a bit wary to purchase Force of Will's since their price is pretty steep.

The question pertaining the matter is the following: Is the Dave Shiels built (not running FoW) worse than the stock versions? And if not in what manner is it different?

My first inclination is that the Combo MU's are effected in a negative way by removing FoW from the main deck. Removing force how ever does give you more reach and the option to be more aggressive to the more controllish built when running force.

Is it wrong to opt not to run force in order to save some money as supposed to running (probably) a better built?

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He guys,

Thanks for the input and quick responses. My meta (Dutch) is usually riddled with combo decks so I'll try to obtain them though legacy is not my primary focus.

I just want to thank Andrew S. for bringing this deck to spotlight.
Just won another tournament with that and it is so much fun (obv).
Fun fact: first and second were ur delver, third was ur delver (changed Ponder and Price for Factory, Waste and Standstill).
I am trying to find a slot for fourth Lavamancer (maybe all my matches and testing were skewed but they were excellent).

Congrats!

Is there a webpage with decklist posts and/or tournament reports?

Congrats

And thanks for sharing the deck list above.

If your meta is a lot of u/r you should definitely add a 4th lavamancer. It's the best card in the mirror, with snapcaster being a close 2nd.

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Originally Posted by FANAttIC

I just want to thank Andrew S. for bringing this deck to spotlight.
Just won another tournament with that and it is so much fun (obv).
Fun fact: first and second were ur delver, third was ur delver (changed Ponder and Price for Factory, Waste and Standstill).
I am trying to find a slot for fourth Lavamancer (maybe all my matches and testing were skewed but they were excellent).

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played the following to 4-1-1 at the Legacy Side event (24 people) at GP Van and placed 3rd:

4 Volcs
2 Island
2 Mountain
11 Fetches

19 Land

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
3 Price of Progress
2 Fire // Ice
1 Thunderous Wrath

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage

3 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

42 Spells

Sideboard
2 Submerge
2 Gilded Drake
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Pyroblast
1 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm


the draw was unintentional against BUG control. loss was to merfolk. beat sneak'n'show, reanimator, UW miracle, and vial dead guy. i hadn't played in 2 months and wanted something easy mode, and the deck was pretty good to me all day. i had a couple awkward mulls to 5, including game 3 on the play against merfolk :/ but otherwise just about everything is keepable.

i got to live the dream twice with gilded drake: put one in off a show'n'tell, got a griselbrand, drew 7 in response to his subsequent show'n'tell and found a force. top decked the other one after reanimator played the last card in his hand (animate dead, on iona, naming red). card is such a beating. i had every tempo play against the miracle control deck, and the merfolk match was really, really tight.

the vortex was probably the loosest thing in the sideboard. that could have been two smash to smithereens as i got wrecked by a jitte by merfolk and only just avoided getting wrecked by one from dead guy. in the main i might prefer another land and the 4th snapcaster over the 2 Fire//Ice.

the special bonus moment of the legacy event was watching Jackie Lee play the sneak'n'show mirror and HARDCAST HER GRISELBRAND. she won.

For me, Vortex was excellent. It demands special kind of answer from the opponent if he ever wants to interact with the enchantment (and he have to, otherwise the game got a lot more interesting :cool:). It solves problems like Jitte, Bskull and Gbrands lifelink.
Side slots are tight but there is allways room for 2 Vortex and 2 Smash.

Played this deck in Detroit yesterday. First I'll post my list, then some matchup information, then some questions.

First, the list:

Dudes: (14)
4x Delver
4x Goblin Guide
3x Snaps
3x Grim Lavamancer

Spells: (28)
4x Bolt
3x Chain
2x Price
2x Forked Bolt
4x Force
4x Pierce
1x Daze
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder

Land: (18)
2x Island
2x Mountain
3x Volcanic
2x Mesa
4x Tarn
3x Strand
2x Misty

SB: (15)
2x Smash to Smithereens
2x Price
2x Sulfur Elemental
3x Submerge
3x Confusion in the Ranks (you're gonna have to look this one up)
3x Surgical

The matchups:

I've found this build to be able to beat most things. It certainly beats all the random jank I've found on Cockatrice (my main way of "testing", if that word can truly be used for it), and beat most of the random decks I played in Detroit (ended up at 5-3 for 46th place). I placed 2nd in a local GPT for Atlanta with this build (of 18 players), conceding in the finals to a guy who was actually going to the GP.

That's about all I'm going to say, although if you have any questions feel free to ask.

The questions:

1) I have a lot of trouble with Sneak/Show. Confusion in the Ranks is my tech for that matchup, but so far in all my testing it's actually never hit the battlefield. It seems really good if it gets there, but it just simply never seems to ever actually get there. I like it because it hoses both Sneak and Show, but if it never actually hits play it's just bad. Failing that, my plan is basically just the same plan as every other matchup: Race and Pray. They're awfully hard to race though...

2) Even more than Sneak/Show, I feel like I can't ever beat Miracle Control, or, more particularly, Countertop. Does this deck just straight-up fold to countertop, or is there some way you guys have found to fight it? I can't think of anything aside from bringing in Sulfur Elementals and praying that they stick and last.

Those 2 decks were my 2nd and 3rd losses in Detroit, and while I'm pretty sure I misplayed in game 3 against Sneak/Show and possibly could have won, the Miracle Control matchup wasn't even close. My first loss, if anyone's curious, was in round 1 to Jon Johnson's Elves (he made T16 so you can see his list). I'm pretty sure I have a sound strategy for that deck and he just outdrew me, though.