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3 MD Dismember is probably a good call since it trumps the mirror and could get rid of annoying creatures like 4/5 Goyfs or Anglers, among other things. I like that he cut down MD Wails. The flexibility is nice, but often not enough. I found myself either with no relevant sorceries to counter or stuff like a flipped Delver beating my ass. All while I sadly stare at a freshly drawn Wail.Quote:
Originally Posted by conboy31
Shouldn't this deck move to the Established section? Looks like in a while it will be even in DtB one.
It will be once a deck is hammered out. We are still in the building phase. Optimal lists are not yet known and a primer is not yet written. Once that's done I will move it over.
I think there are now more or less 2 variants:
The colorless variant played by many at Philly and a "colored devoid" variant being W/UW/GW or Bant centered around Displacer and cutting Mimics and/or Endless Ones.
The variant with Lodestone Golems is a more extreme version of colorless. Most decks mentioned here can be put into either of the categories.
The philly variants were based mostly off of Kevin Toolan's Eldrazi Shops article http://southfloridamagic.com/the-evo...eldrazi-shops/Quote:
Originally Posted by hofzge
I believe after the article, Toolan cut the trinis for 2 Jittes (first for a sword and a jitte, then cut the sword for more jitte), but it seems that the players at philly cut the wails for thorns and reduced the endbringer count.
Someone should write a primer, that's right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
As for the building phase, I disagree. It seems to me that it's quite usual to have different takes on an established archetype. Let's put aside for a while colored versions, the core of the colorless eldrazi is quite known. Of course there are different choices... do you want to run trinispheres, or thorn, or even move them to the side? Do you want to play maindeck wail, dismembers, equipment?
But is the difference between European Version of Miracle (4 ponder) and Losset's one (creatures) any less different?
Are Death and Taxes "free" slots less different than our ones? (Spirit of the Labyrinth, Crusader, Vryn, Serra, ecc).
It's possibile that a "better" choice emerges, but the deck performed well with many takes... at some point it becomes personal choices on the metagame you expect and your personal style (more controllish, more aggro, etc)
Right - see Nic Fit with all the different versions or even Death & Taxes with the common white based stuff can transform into Imperial Taxes (RW) which don't need different Threads. The Core Elements for Eldrazi will be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by talpa
---------------
Fun Fact: I saw a creative "colorless" BR Brew at our local shop yesterday. It contains Dusk Stalker(!) and Lodestone Golem for a full 20 (Smasher, Stalker, Golem, Endbringer) Big Beater package to support Mimic - notable with 8 Haste "right into your Face" Boys. Various Decks struggled against this onslaught.
If you can give me a Primer, with the options on what should and should not be in the deck, a writeup of all relevant matches you can expect to face and a future direction of the deck I will move it. (Or you could post it right into Established and skip the middleman) The thing is, right now we are at the spark stage. Granted nothing really changed for U/R Delver after that so I am happy to admit I am being too defensive, but right now there is a spread of options and of counts in decklists.Quote:
Originally Posted by talpa
Also, you want to run Thorns, the 3Ball shuts off Eye and that seems stupid. The only deck that is really going to punish you for that switch badly is Elves and Chalice is hell on them. I guess there is DnT too, but they are going to likely lock you under your own 3Ball and fuck you if you draw wrong or just play a Vial if they draw right.
Please forgive me if I couldn't explain myself (english is not my first language): I completeley agree with you, but I don't feel adequate to write the primer myselft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Also for the second part, I agree with you. I run thorns and given the frequency in which I even board them out I am considering moving them to sideboard. But. Someone which I really estimate as a good mud player is playing trinis in Eldrazi, and someone who was capable of doing top8 in SCG Philly also ran them, so clearly it's not as stupid as it seems, meaning, it's obviously a big downside, but someone can legitimately consider the trade-off with the upsides.
I may be able to write a primer (depending on time this week). If anyone wants to add certain content please feel free to message the information to me.
I found that running Trinisphere significantly worsened my Storm matchup just because I couldn't cast it turn one. There was a very real chance of me having to pass or play something irrelevant turn one and then get my sphere Duress'd (I then died the next turn). Thorn alleviates this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by talpa
Primer or not, this is the list i've been playing now:
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Cavern of Souls
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 2 Duplicant
SB: 1 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Dismember
It is a fairly stock list, but some explanations of my choices:
- 26 lands, no accelleration pieces. After discarding diamond relatively early, i also decided to discard SSG and gemstone cavern. Gemstone was just literally unplayable as a 2-for-1 against wasteland, and SSG made our threat density too low for my tastes for what it gave us in exchange. Upping the land count to 26, increasing the number of utility lands (wastelands, factories) make the deck a little bit slower especially in the ability to deploy a T1 lockpiece, but increase greatly the resiliance to wasteland and decrease significantly the number of times where cards get stuck in your hand. With no SSG, you also increase the number of actual cards you are playing. I think urborg is extremely important to avoid killing yourself too much vs delver lists. Delver lists , grixis especially, which run delver, dazes, anglers , pyromancers and strix are a big problem for this deck and i think are extremely well positioned in the meta, being able to beat most other delver lists (thanks to DRS/angler) and going even with eldrazi lists. 26 lands with no accelleration pieces also allow you to play both wastelands (important in the mirror, vs combo and lands) and factories (good to close out games especially with jitte), and to activate eye of ugin the most often over every other configuration of 24-25 lands + accellerators (with the exception of lists playing monolith which are just wrong imho).
SSG may still be actually right though, especially if you expect a lot of dazes.
- 1 dismember, 3 warping wail: dismember is a really good card in this deck especially as it cost just :1: which you often can't use for anything else. The big problem is that 4 life AND tomb is a pretty big deal, and the MU where you want to dismember things are often teh MUs where you also care about life totals (vs anglers, delvers, and other eldrazis). I'm honestly tempted to try something else, but in colorless that's hard. The 3-1 split is the one i'm testing right now, but 2-2 or even 3-2 could be correct depending on the meta and other things. Other possibilities for removal playable in this deck are Wasteland stranglers and Bearer of Silence. The Wails are removal first, sorcery counters seconds, and jitte carrier third. I play 3 because i think that the meta will see an increase in sorcery spells, with combo moving toward SnT and tempo playing more Painful Thruths.
- 2 umezawa's jitte: this is considered part of the removal suite and why i feel comfortable with only 1 dismember. At 2 mana it can come down with a single land, and if it connect even once it will probably win you the game vs delver lists, D&T, elves and whatsnot. Having factories mean it is a much more live card vs a deck like miracle. You never want to see 2, and you often don't want to see even a single one, but it's still a card that is really powerful in mirrors and fair creature decks. At 26 lands, you often can animate and equips factories more easily than 24 or 25 land lists with moxens.
- 3 Revokers, 2 Endbringers: those are the usual 4-5 flex creature slots. Revokers usually name Tops (and get removed fast) or DRS (and often get removed just as fast) or SFM/batterskull (and i feel this is the best card you can name especially after chalice) , but they are still a source of disruption that can help you a lot when your opponents are low on answers. I play 3 because i almost never want to see 2 of those as they are good as a side-dish but not as a main source of board damage. The 2 Endbringers are something that i still don't really like and side out in most MUs, but they are a concession to the many players i've seen play the deck and found Endbringer amazing in a lot of games. I'm also expecting the meta to go toward Show and Tell more heavily and Endbringers is possibly the best maindeckable card vs SnT decks. With 26 lands, you almost never have problems playing him either.
- 3 Thorn of Amethyst instead of 4: my reasoning was that i'd rather have 1 thorn and 1 warping wail than 2 thorn in my games, especially against cards like Stoneforge mystic, show and tell, or terminus. This may not be correct, and +1 thorn -1 wail may be more correct. Time will tell if the clunkyness of having to leave mana open is worth the additional versatility and better option a wail offer over the 4th thorn.
- Sideboard choices: 6 graveyard hate cards that cost 0, 4 of which can be played on T0. Extraction would be such a good card, but in too many MUs you want both chalice and grave hate (reanimator, lands) so i don't think it's a viable alternative, especially considering lands.
The 2 duplicant are here for SnT decks which i believe will get more played as answer to both this deck and land decks, but are also a card that can be played in other slow MUs and remove possibly cards like Marit Lage, Anglers, Goyfs and KotRs, whereas Ashen Riders is unplayable out of hand. This is obviously wrong if SnT lists are more of the Omnitell variant as duplicant does nothing there.
The rest of the sideboard is pretty self-explanatory. 2 more dismember for the mirror and decks with goyfs/anglers, 2 ratchet bombs 1 more wail for delver /pyromancer decks , with added utility against combo (EtW and countering sorceries in general). 1 More revoker vs SFM/vial/top/DRS/mana critters decks, the 4th thorn vs combo and heavy non-creature spell decks.
Folks. Kudos on your excellent showing this weekend.
I have been brainstorming proper hate. I'm hoping to get some insight from your perspective. It may be helpful for you to hear from mine. Maybe.
I am thinking Ensnaring Bridge mostly because it seems to work well in D+T and dodges the vast majority of your hate. Really, just Ratchet Bomb. It is proactive, so that is kinda better against Thought-Knot Seer. Thorns make it more, but I bet you pull the Thorns against D+T. Thoughts?
Also, Hall of Gemstone seems like a strong lock. Maybe for Elves, hitting you on turn 2. You can All is Dust that one though, and it is really narrow hate.
Baleful Strix and Delve creatures are a significant problem for this deck. As well as KotR fetching stupid lands (mazes, tabernacles, wastelands etc...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Ensnaring bridge is probably one of the best hate card. Ghostly prison is decent too. Moat is a killer but cost probably too much for D&T, more of a Miracle sb card. Back To basic too. Hall of gemstone is hilarious, but does nothing against any other deck and it's in green.
Veteran Explorer is also really annoying.
Not sure that Hall of Gemstone works on colourless mana?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Oracle text:
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player chooses a color. Until end of turn, lands tapped for mana produce mana of the chosen color instead of any other color.
?Quote:
Originally Posted by Krasman
You can't produce colorless since colorless is not a color, and as such, you can' cast half your deck with hall of gemstone down. It's still a super narrow answer.
it doesnt say you can't produce colorless. it just says COLORED mana switches to that chosen color. nothing happens to colorless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gheizen64
Mmh, that seems strange indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren
It seems everywhere I go I'm breaking worlds, literally. Pulled 2 World Breakers from the draft and beat everything down to a pulp with it. :x
I really like this list. I'd probably still try to squeeze in the Karakas into the MD, maybe cutting 1 Endbringer.
A couple of questions about the SB:
- Lightning Greaves: What are they for? Spot removal? Speed? Both?
- What's people's experience with Winter Orb? Where is it brought in?
- Oblivion Sower? Mirror tech, I assume, since it has a bigger butt than everything they have and it can ramp you even further?
Are you thinking of moving towards a colorless build, or are you going to stick with GW?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I like the idea of playing Eldrazi Displacer in this deck. It gives you an out to stuff like Marit Lage and Emrakul, and breaks ground stalls in the mirror.
I really don't see why this deck can't just play 2+ Karakas and 3-4 Displacer as long as it is playing a playset of Caverns and, say, 2 or so Mox Diamond.
I like the GW build, but given its shittiness in the mirror (which is still highly relevant), I'm reconsidering my options. City of Traitors is probably better right now due to speed, but clashes with the color requirements of the GW build. That might change when the meta shifts more towards decks like S&T, Reanimator and friends. Since it still runs a number of Displacers, this particular build catched my interested, as it looks about the same as the thing I wanted to try out.
Losing the flexibility of the SB and World Breaker kinda sucks, but whatever works, works. Some of its SB choices still look very weird, though.
I think about -1 Endbringer +1 Karakas MD
+1-2 Karakas, cutting something SB
- 2 Oblivion Sower (unless I hear good arguments for its inclusion) +1 Endbringer + 1 Displacer (both are also good cards in the mirror, except more flexible everywhere else; more Karakas post-board helps the higher Displacer numbers, too)
and maybe some All is Dust as catch-all solution if I find the space.
I don't think you need to warp the deck too much. There's no reason to go all the way to splash two additional colors. I just think you can slot Displacer in as a 3-of or 4-of, play Karakas, and the deck might be better than the stock colorless list because Displacer does so much, and Karakas is always useful in Legacy.
It's a trade-off. How often can you play double Reshaper T2 from Eye + Sol Land? Because otherwise, it's just a glorified chump blocker more often than not. Displacer brings the same power for the same mana cost to the table, plus very powerful utility. I just don't know how to cram enough Karakas copies into the list since 1 Urborg seems nice in a mainly colorless list. 1 Karakas might be easy to justify to go up to 25 lands, but 2/26 lands is already getting iffy, at least for the MD configuration.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Edit: This would be the list I have in mind:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
2 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
2 Karakas
1 Dismember
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Eldrazi Displacer
1 Endbringer
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 All is Dust
3 Warping Wail
This way, I get enough (semi-relevant) cards to side in vs Eldrazi when Chalice and Thorn are pretty much useless. Are 3 Macabres enough? I don't know, but it worked for Gerry Thompson, so there's that. I put in Wail since I still want ways to combat Elves and stuff. And Wail seems like the broadest hate one can apply that is also relevant in other matches.
I am pretty sure Harlan's team (NRG) was actually sourcing my playtest group's list. The sideboard graveyard hate was slightly different, but they arrived at a very similar maindeck. I was working with Paul Lynch and Michael Scheffenacker on refining the list, and they did a deck tech on the local Twitch stream (SnapCasters) the night that they both went 3-0-1, drawing with each other in the last round. You can check the stream for the deck tech, although the list they had there is out of date.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
After that, they started fielding messages from lots of players about the list, including (apparently) a call from someone in Brazil trying to break the deck.
The maindeck differences were: we played 2 Endbringer, 4 Thorn, and 4 Wail; they played 3 Wail, 2 Dismember, 2 Trinisphere, an extra Jitte, and an extra Metamorph - changes our group was discussing in the week leading up to Philly. They also played an extra land in the third Factory, and swapped a City for an Eye.
The sideboard is also very close - we were messing around with Surgical Extraction, Faerie Macabre, and Pithing Needle for Lands hate, but were kicking around Leylines and Winter Orbs since they would let us still put Chalice on 1. It appears they found those answers sooner and were able to test them. They also played Ratchet Bomb where we had our 3 Dismembers, although Ratchet Bomb was a recent cut for us.
All in all, it seems clear they were basing it off of our list. The difference between Revokers + Jittes, and Moxen + Endbringers, is pretty stark. There's also much more similarity in the sideboards. It looks like GerryT's 2nd place list was closer to the SFM Shops list, though.
I'm busy at work tomorrow and then we have a weekly Legacy event tomorrow night, but I'm happy to answer questions people have. I can also try my hand at a primer, and I can talk to the team about possibly contributing to one. I'll also be more available later this week.
Harlan and crew's list was actually from The Brainstorm Show's podcast. I sent them the list a week or two before the tournament, and each player changed 1-3 cards. Not that it matters too much, but it was a little frustrating that Kent Ketter did a deck tech with 74 cards of the list I sent them and did not mention the podcast. We have an episode on the deck at thebrainstormshow.com. -WilsonQuote:
Originally Posted by Delvis
Hey guys. Longtime lurker on this forum, time to get off my ass and start contributing. Thought I'd report in on my experience with a variation of the deck this weekend at the open. Played on nearly zero testing aside from a 3-1 FNM the night before, deviated from the colorless version, and ran into some match ups I didn't want to see with any version of this deck, but I figured despite the lackluster performance, I can give some feedback on some of the cards, etc.
Anyway, here's the list I ran:
Creatures - 20
3 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Lodestone Golem
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
Artifacts - 11
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
Instants - 4
2 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
Land - 25
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Karakas
3 Wasteland
3 Eye of Ugin
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Caves of Koilos
Sideboard
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Mind Stone
2 Disenchant
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
1 Warping Wail
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Worship
Played against:
R1 - Combo MUD (super early blightsteel all three games) 1-2
R2 - Maverick 1-2 (yeah....not a good time)
R3 - Goblins 2-0 (way easier than I thought it would be)
R4 - Painter 2-1 (wins through early blood moons)
R5 - Burn 1-2 (never saw threats after locks were up game 3)
R6 - Grixis Omni-Tell Storm 1-2 (mulled a lot and died to an early omni/petals/grapeshot g3...)
R7 - Burn 2-0 (lock and smash)
R8 - no show
R9 - Food Chain 1-2 (of course I played against food chain to finish the day)
Off the bat, the more typical colorless version probably would have won me a few matches I didn't win just due to consistency/speed (namely MUD, the weird omni deck and food chain), but I really wanted to run a version that had more play to it and wasn't dead in the water to blood moon early. Displacer was great all day, but I was really expecting to run into more Miracles/Shardless/Delver/ANT/Elves/Sneak and Show/mirror/etc where I think it would have really shined, especially in conjunction with Thought-Knot. Given my mana and mox diamond set up, I never had any problems casting white spells when I needed to, though I did have to mulligan a lot due to openers with no lands for some reason. Lodestone performed pretty well also. It's nice having one of your bigger threats to trigger mimic in the face of T1 blood moon that doesn't require waste mana and also functions as an additional lock.
I lost game 3 to burn in R5 to a goblin guide that flipped 7 lands to my hand while I also drew 7 more on the subsequent turns while I had his spells past a first bolt on my mimic locked out, so I'm not really sweating that matchup. Amethyst and Chalice just go to town in those games. The R7 match against burn went according to plan and Endbringer can really just keep you afloat and safe while you're waiting for smasher/TKS/lodestone to show up and finish the job.
Obviously not the day I envisioned, I didn't play all that great, and the matchups were less than ideal, but the deck was fun and the games were quick which is a nice bonus since I typically play miracles =). Not sure I'll stay on this deck, but any questions, let me know.
Damn, I've been away from the thread (uni, etc.) and all of sudden we're here as one of the top contenders in the metagame. Sweet. For those looking to write a primer, feel free to use what I wrote some time ago here:
https://deathandtoolbox.wordpress.co...ldrazi-stompy/
And incorporate it. I also think the Primer should try and mention card choices/pros&cons from the splash builds (GW, RG, UW, MonoWhite, MonoBlue, maybe?), which may/may not be more relevant as the metagame progresses.
@Patrukenphat7 I was also pretty sad to see your credits get no mention. The Leylines, Traps and Contortions really stick out as being hallmarks of the list you elegantly outlined on the podcast. Your Eldrazi episode I also think should get some mention/link within the primer.
Anyway, now that we're moving into territory as a metagame staple I'd be happy to contribute to any housekeeping in terms of Primers etc., whoever's looking to do so is free to hit me up. Also expect a heavy feature in This Month in Legacy, for those who read it.
Greaves can be used to improve Endless One (aka a big dude that dies to decay) and Endbringer (upgrades to a "Planeswalker")Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I am not sure about Winter Orb, i don't see the reason why i need it vs Control (already a good matchup - and better cards can be played at side), but maybe it works vs lands IF they don't get speed with Mox/Exploration (...)
Oblivion Sower seems to be a Mirror-Tech, you can abuse other Eldrazi Lands and block Smashers all day long - you can also try Duplicant or Wurmcoil Engine, but both (since no Eldrazi) can sometimes be slower.
Yeah - i think Displacer is a great tool to improve problematic situations BUT you need to fix the Mana for him (...), see my thoughts below:Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
-----------------------------------
I thought about the SCG performance and all the builds that are flying around here. We got a nice discussion (over 30 pages for "Development"!) and should already mentioned each angle of attack against Eldrazi - the meta will adapt: one way or another.
I will try the following ideas (a mix of a lot of builds) for my next Eldrazi runs:
Land (25)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Wasteland
3x City of Traitors
3x Eye of Ugin
2x Karakas
1x Plains
Most numbers are common and set in stone - personally i like 3 City/Eye to avoid more bad draws/starting hands. Since this build (see below) will also include Eldrazi Displacer, more "white" Mana is needed. Karakas is the perfect fit here, because it improves Sneak&Show, Reanimate and (to a minor degree) Lands. The single Plains (hey Basic!) can also be the more common Urborg, but first i wan't to max out the chance to cast Displacer. Playset Wasteland to complete the Tax-Elements, improve the Mirror (we learned that Eldrazi are weak vs Manadenial) and gives a way to fight port and other annoying lands. Without White you get 3 slots for Mishra or other stuff - but as i explained, this colorless build will try to fit in Displacer.
Creature (22)
4x Eldrazi Mimic
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
3x Eldrazi Displacer
3x Lodestone Golem
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
2x Endbringer
First we get the common colorless stuff: Playsets Mimic, Seer, Smasher - secondly not only the established Endbringer to control the Battlefield but also Displacer as a little brother (cc3 vs cc6). It is more or less the Slot from Matter Reshaper and i think Displacer (if the mana works) is the stronger one. That little Guy won me many games on its own and is a great way (against creatures) for a manasink. Now the uncommon slots: I will try Lodestone Golem, because (if you got the right lands) he is another good 4drop (which means Turn 2+) besides Thought-Knot Seer that can win Games on its own and brings some synergy with Thorn, Wasteland and will also trigger Mimic(!) as another 5-Power dude. I put him over Endless One, because he has more raw power for "only" 4 Mana. I also included a pair of Phyrexian Metamorph, because it will allow you to copy Seer, Smasher, Golem and Thorn and can also be abused with Displacer or simply copy annoying Stuff from your Opponent (Mirror?!).
Rest (13)
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Dismember
2x Mox Diamond
1x Crucible of Worlds
Besides Chalice most colorless Eldrazi Builds want to run Thorn. I also included 3 since the build also contains 3 Lodestone Golem and Metamorphs to copy for more Tax if needed. Since Thorn isn't good against any matchups 3 should be good enough with the other cards in mind. Dismember is needed vs Mirror and Gofy (a problem we already discussed) so it seems to be Maindeck stuff which complete the Package of Displacer+Endbringer to control the field from the beginning till lategame. Mox isn't the best card, but i feel it is needed if you also want Displacer. It will also ensure that you can get rid of multiple Eye/City and allow you to ramp into T1/T2 plays if you can only start without Tomb/City. Two copies should avoid a bit that you draw multiple for bad topdecks/starting hands etc. Since the build don't need full color support, the number should be correct. Crucible for me is also an autoinclude in this build, it works well with Wastelands, City, Mox and is simply another compatible element with Thorn/Golem/Chalice. I don't see why i want Crucible only at Side, if one of the major problems for Eldrazi can be Manadenial and the common colorless builds also uses 3-4 Wastelands.
Sideboard (15)
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x All Is Dust
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Warping Wail
2x Wastes
Not all is set in stone, but i tried to cover some weak spots. Leyline will catch Graveyard-Combos very hard (Turn 0, can't be countered, not easy to remove) and will also work against Lands/Loam to avoid recurring Wastelands. Sadly i must reduce Warping Wail (since the Maindeck is more "tap out" every turn) but i still like some copies at Side. Since the build contains Spells like Dismember/Displacer/Endbringer Main, you don't need much more Pointremoval. Wastes come in vs Moon and Manadenial (note: Miracle brew also with From the Ashes!), since the build don't run any Mana-Stones. I am not sure if All is Dust is needed in this build (otherwise a great Spell for Eldrazi!), maybe you can try a copy of here Ulamog/World Breaker, since Stuff like Moat/Bridge/Humility will be a thing once Eldrazi are full established - i for myself basically don't want to loose against that stuff. We can also talk about stuff like Jitte, Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine, Oblivion Sower or Duplicant against the Mirror or other Decks with Big Dudes etc.
------
EDIT: @ChemicalBurns: Thanks for the link :cool: - and you are right, don't miss the color Splashes for further development.
Played again my weekly with almost the same list I used last week (on page 27)
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Reality Smasher
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Endless One
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Endbringer
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Warping Wail
2 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Plains
1 Karakas
SB:
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Rest in Peace
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Winter Orb
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 All is Dust
Went 2-2-0
R1: Storm lost 0:2
Both games were prety close, g1 lost due to misplay on my part, g2 was ridiculous, I had CotV @1 and @0, Trinisphere, and Thorn of Amethyst on the table..... Decay, Decay, Decay, Krosan Grip ruined my day..., anyway game was awesome and pretty close. Had troubles with land drops.
R2: Shardless BUG lost 0:2
g1 land screw
g2 mulligan and then land screw again!
Both games involved hand City, Eldrazi Temple and Mox, and then never saw another land, opposing Wasteland sealed the deal.
R3: UW Mentor control
g1 CotV @1 seal the deal, g2 land screw, g3 long lasting grindy matchup, Displacer saved the game and Endbringer took last chunks of life from my opponent (with Bridge on table).
-
R4: High Tide
g1 CotV @1 and he has no outs, g2 CotV @1 FoWed, second CotV @1 FoWed, third CotV @1 stick and Smashers finished game as supposed to.
I don't know if it is me, or deck, but its land drop consistency is somewhat weakest point, because last time I had land flood. Well in all honesty, this comes from long time TA player.
From the comments, white splash is something I want, because it just gave the deck many answers, namely flipped delvers, Emrakuls, Marit Lage etc. Next time I might consider Lodestone Golems from MD.Ghost suggestion, in place of Phyrexian Revoker as they underperformed.
Not sure about the Phyrexian Metamorph MD, as Mimics won't copy its p/t since it is blue.
Deck is really strong when it gets going, apart from those land screws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosaic
Metamorph should work with Mimic.
706.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s
characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode,
targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The
“copiable values” are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name,
mana cost, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or
loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned
face up” abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down.
Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not
copied.
706.2a A copy acquires the color of the object it’s copying because that value is derived from its
mana cost. A copy acquires the abilities of the object it’s copying because those values are
derived from its rules text. A copy doesn’t wind up with two values of each ability (that is, it
doesn’t copy the object’s abilities and its rules text, then have that rules text define a new set of
abilities).
Went 3-0-1 at my local store (the draw was ID in round 4).
R1 - Miracles
Game 1 - Eldrazi rolls game 1 with Mimic, Thought Knot and Smashers.Sided in O Sower, Null Rod, All is Dust, Karn. Sided out 3 Thorn and Jitte.
Game 2 - Lots of cat and mouse. I have two Mimics and tap out to cast Endless for 4, rather than hold onto Warping Wail, he tops for Terminus. He stalls with his repeated Karakas, Venser, Clique shenanigans. However, Wasteland and Ulamog stop his bouncing tricks for me to take the game.
R2 - Miracles
Game 1 - Eldrazi rolls with Smashers, Endbringers, and other fatties. SB - same as before.
Game 2 - He beats me with repeated snapcasters for Swords (after removing Chalice). I All is Dust to wipe his board. Later he follows up with From the Ashes, killing all my lands. I don't recover in time.
Game 3 - Eldrazi rolling hand with Mimic, Thought Knot and Smashers.
R3 - DnT
Game 1 - Turn 1 Chalice for 1 turns off Swords. He has a hand with Stoneforge and other lands. Gets rolled quickly. Side in Tsabo's Web, Powder Keg, Spacial Contortion. Side out 3 Thorns.
Game 2 - I remember he swords my early Thought-Knot and eventually had 2 Serra Avengers. My Mimic sits there. Avengers beat me to 4 before I Eye of Ugin to get Ulamog. He didn't see that coming and Avengers were removed. I gain 10 for my trouble and stabilize after that with more Eye activations.
R4 - Elves
We draw. We play sample games and I beat him thoroughly. Game 1 - Chalice for 1 followed up by major beatings. Game 2 - Powder Keg turn 1 puts the breaks on an aggressive plan. I follow with Thought Knot which shuts his game down. We played about 6 games and I won 5, including situations where Warping Wail counters Natural Order or DRS.
4 Eldrazi Mimic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Warping Wail
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SB
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Sower
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Powder Keg
1 Null Rod
3 Trinisphere
1 All is Dust
1 Dismember
1 Karn Liberated
1 Amber Prison
1 Tsabo's Web
@MD.Ghost I stand corrected, thanks!
4-0d my local legacy last night(well 3-0-1 but we played just to see how it would go.)
2-0 food chain- I just had the nuts both games even keeping in the dark game 1 a hand with eye, temple, sol, mimic, though knot, reality smasher dismember. G2 would have gone a bit differently had he used fierce empath for gurmag instead of tasigur(he thought he had mana to activate and return murderous cut) but I still had 2 back up reality smasher to close the game out
2-1 oops all spells- game 1 I lost before I even got to take a turn. Next game I blew him out with a chalice on 0 and curved into mimic and smasher. G3 I got him by t1 revomkng his 2 lotus petals and slowly beating with mimic and revoker
2-0 mirror- he was on Gerry t's list. Dismember was a champ here. Don't remember all the details bit him failing to crack his wasteland early didn't help. G2 I cast 1 dismember for 4 life and a second off of his urborg to take no damage
2-1 shardless- g1 was quick curved mimic into thought knot and top dexked endbringer, g2 an early goyf took it, g3 was more interactive and very close. A top deck smasher against his strix took it home.
I'm still running spirit guides and trinisphere, no reahapers and a 2/3 split of wasteland to factory. Also the meta was wierd last night. Got a bit more testing in on Saturday as well. Infect, DnT are both pretty tough matchups. I lost to infect with an active chalice on 1
Funny story, when trying to shut down two drops with chalice, don't cast mimic.
How do you GSZ for Gurmag / Tasigur?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE
Sorry it wasn't GSZ it was fierce empathQuote:
Originally Posted by Krasman
That makes a lot more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEROorDIE
hey guys,
for the ones who play a gw version. It´s maybe a crazy thought, but how about "berserk". Not only our Endless one gets trample or tks etc. you can destroy any creature your opponent controls in your turn or end of turn for just 1 green mana. Could be worth thinking about. Just a crazy thought ...:cool:
You need to use Berserk in combat; so you are unable to use it as an end of turn removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by josch6083
Also being one mana it does not work with CotV; if you wanted 1 CC cards Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshare would be a better option.