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I think with the little rise of Mono Red Chalice in Legacy, Ur Delver will become slightly a better Delver deck or a better choice compared to the other Delver builds. Since Blood Moon effects do not bother us the big challenge against it is CotV and Trinisphere while other Delver decks have to fight through all of it. I allready played against Mono Red Prison and it always came down to me finding hate cards or not. The matchup is very even though.
Is Riddleform too slow?
i've recently started playing this deck for about 2 months now.
i brought this to my weekly grinder, went 2-2 (got some store credit for my effort).
the major change was the shift from 3 YP's to storm chasers, and +1 probe, +1 chain for forked bolt & fireblast.
4 delver
4 swiftspear
3 storm chaser
1 grim lava
2 tnn
4 probe
4 ponder
4 bs
4 daze
4 fow
1 vapor snag
4 bolt
4 chain
2 pop
4 tarn
4 strand
3 volcs
2 island
2 mountain
board
2 flusterstorm
2 surgical
2 pyroblast
2 pyrostatic pillar
2 rough//tumble
1 needle
1 grafdigger's
1 sulfuric vortex
1 smash
1 vapor snag
game 1 vs esper delver: lingering souls was bothersome. tnn decided each game's outcome & top deck (by bs) bolt in game 3. 2-1
game 2 vs jund: i won game 1. game 2 & 3 became difficult once goyfs resolved late in the game. 1-2
game 3 vs bug control: i dont remember much from this game, but it felt awful facing leovold, tnn backed by decay and pushes. 0-2
game 4 vs aluren: never played this match. game 1 loss because he combo'd with the strix & harpy. game 2 & 3 was won by landing pyrostatic pillar.
Deathrite all day. Kill on the spot.
I think i need 2 blood moons in the board, but what to cut?
Hi people,
How do you feel that this deck is positioned these days? I'm considering if I should pick up Legacy again, and this would be a perfect entry deck if it's good enough.
Strictly speaking I also came to ask how fun this deck is to play over time, but I can't imagine that playing a Daze/Brainstorm/FoW deck could ever get boring.
I also started my journey with this deck. I think it is good enough to get some wins. It is one of the more straightforward decks, so after some time I started changing some of the cards to increase the fun factor. You can easily switch between more aggro or more controlling build. Looking back, I am glad that I went this route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havrekjex
Ur Delver is in a good spot right now. With the rise of Red Stompy/Prison and combo decks like Turbo Depths you have a really good chance to outrace your opponent very early and to just concentrate on countering the most important spell. Ur Delver has not a positive matchup against Turbo Depths and Red Prison in general (more like 50/50), it is just that these decks are designed to beat Delver and blue decks and you provide a very stabile manabase and a very aggressive game plan so Ur Delver has sometimes even a better chance than its brother in Grixis. Also the heavy burn strategie gives you a REAL plan B against any deck so Ur Delver is not as limited as people might think. Grixis Delver is still the better deck but this is mainly because of the variety of decks you can meet. Black offers incredible good sideboard cards so there is postboard always a better chance with Grixis than Ur. Grixis shines against the variety of decks, becuase it can play aggro, control, mana denial, big creatures, fast creatures, counter, etc. Ur Delver is more limited but also more straight forward than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havrekjex
To the fun part: For me Ur Delver is the most fun Delver deck to play. I like to see how my Swiftspear grows and if I manage to "combo" my opponent with Brainstorm, Gitaxian Probe, Bolt and Fireblast. With Ur Delver you are one of the last remaining TRUE aggro decks which at least for me means something. Also Ur Delver is able to switch to a Aggro-Control build when adding more counterspells and hate cards against combo decks so you dont play the aggro role all the time. Ur Delver is very skill intensive imo, you need to do your math right and need to know when to go full in and when to wait. T1 creature is not always the correct play, little details matter because we dont really have any creature which provides a body like Gurmag Angler.
Behold your latest 1-of candidate: Bonus Round.
Makes an exciting late game finish.
One could do double PoP, and add more juice to our prowess critters.
Too expensive? Thoughts?
Yeah... I don't see this deck planning on winning games where it plays 5 mana sources. I think one should avoid spells that 1. Cost 3+ and 2. Do nothing on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonorous
Did anyone tried Manamorphose in UR Delver? I was testing a prowess version with chart a course, but some days ago i have brewed with UR Delver in Modern and have included Manamorphose in that deck instead of banned Gitaxian Probe. Then i have tyied a "new tech" in Legacy deck instead of Charts. I think that the substitution increased the speed and power of our prowess creatures. I really enjoy the manamorphose so far. Any thoughts?
The general opinion is that Manamorphose is not good in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Listlik
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...archid=4531479
Hello mates,
I 4-0'ed a small (18 people) paper tournament in my LGS.
My list is below.
Notes:
I accidentally put only 14 lands in the deck and luckily it was enough.
Grim Lavamancer beats creature decks.
Young Pyromancer beats UW control.
Chart a Course is super cool.
Matches:
Infect
WB Thalia, Mystic, Chalice, Sinkhole, Wasteland
another Infect
UW Miracles with Mentor and Back to Basics
The decklist:
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Brainstorm
3 Chain Lightning
1 Chart a Course
4 Daze
1 Fireblast
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
2 Price of Progress
1 Spell Pierce
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Young Pyromancer
Sideboard:
1 Dismember
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Pithing Needle
1 Price of Progress
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Vapor Snag
Yeah thats so true. Lavamancer main is such a beast vs. all creature decks. Also he works against stuff like 4c control because he either pings or shoots Strix, Shaman, Snapcaster which is great. Lavamancer is a card which is dealt with immediately or your opponent seems to be in a bad spot because Lavamancer takes over the entire game. Young Pyromancer is also a card your opponent MUST deal with otherwise he floods and dominates the battlefield. YP is just waaay stronger than Stormchaser Mage. The only good thing about Stormchaser is it has evasion and haste so it is sometimes better vs. combo and you can combo yourself in a turn with multiple prowess triggers when YP had to wait. I currently play a 2/1 split with YP/Stormchaser. Chart a Course on the other hand I really dont like. It costs 2 mana which feels clunky for a spell which just draws cards, also it does not trigger prowess so I could never play with that card in the right way.Quote:
Originally Posted by jattra
Has anybody ever tested Eidolon of the Great Revel in the sideboard? I think the card could work wonders... You have a threat T2 vs. Storm which can't be disrupted T1. So you could focus on your beatdown plan while protecting Eidolon to be removed which prevents the opponent to get into Storm. Against Elves Eidolon is probably even better, the whole turn with Glimpse of Nature will not work anymore. Also against all control builds like 4c and Miracles, which live by cantriping, playing cheap removal spells and Snapcastering, Eidolon will be also extremely strong and an even faster clock than Sulfuric Vortex when not dealt with. Of course these decks have answers against it, but 4 damage for 2 mana would be allready enough to close out the game in these matchups. With a little luck Eidolon would go for 6+ damage which should be the obvious winner in that matchup. I definitely gonna give it a try, I just do not have space anymore in my board. This is my current sideboard for UR Delver:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vapor Snag
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Abrade
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Pithing Needle
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Blood Moon
I could maaaaybe cut the Smash to Smithereens for the Eidolon but that would decrease my chance of an early removal for Chalice of the Void, which is more crucial for that deck. I like playing 3 artifact removal spells to fight against Chalice, Trinisphere, Bridge and various Equibments.
Thank you for your input.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
The card is not here to trigger prowess. Draw two for two is good. Dig to find threat if all yours chups got removed during the longer game is also fine even though you have to discard a card. I am happy with it as I am not fully focused on prowess. You also can attack with an elemental token into anything and draw two.
The card is obviously awful against fast decks and mana denial decks (looking at you D&T).
By coincidence, I put one Eidolon in my sideboard for the next week. I am also optimistic about that card.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
With gitaxian probe now banned, how much more of an incentive is there to move towards a wasteland/stifle build over a prowess build? No more DRS makes me think Grim Lavamancer goes down in value quite a bit, but I'm not as sold on whether or not it will end up making me like the land hate more. I'm guessing that right away, people might try to run stretched manabases to keep playing similar strategies to what they had built already, but I'd bet that trend dies down as they get punished and people put together more thought out and adjusted decks.
Either way, I'm starting to warm up to Young Pyromancer/ Chart a Course shenanigans now.
- If you want to play Wasteland and Stifle you should move to Canadian. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes this deck Wasteland and Stifle package better than Nimble Mongoose which Ur does not have. Canadian plays very very different to UR Delver, and just playing a downgraded version is not the plan imho. For example against decks which play a high removal density the best Canadian players board Delver out to give your opponents dead cards with their Bolts, Pushes, etc. Canadian is concentrating A LOT on playing 1 creature and protecting it (Nimble Mongoose has Shroud, Goyf and Mandrills are very difficult to remove, so is TNN). Against combo Canadian does play aggressive with Delver and Wastelands. Ur Delver is a TEMPO DECK, you will never board out Delver or even try to play that strategie like Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldsrocket_27
- Grim Lavamancer is probably buffed with the Shaman ban. A lot of blue decks are missing a powerful cc1 creature now with Shaman ban. All the decks which allready played red can now fill it in with Lavamancer, not 4 obv, more like 1-3 depending on the build. I probably go up to 2 Lavamancer main in Ur Delver now since we have 4 free spots of Gitaxian Probe.
- Going down the YP route now is not smart. I always played YP instead of Stormchaser because we allready had a prowess creature and YP flooded the board sooo easy in our deck with 4 Probes. Now with the Probe ban, you will play YP turn 2 and say go. Your opponent has waaaay more time to set himself up which can be quite crucial and also to slow. I mean 2 YP can be still good but the general YP game plan as sooooo weakened by the Probe ban because YP was at its best when played 2 Probes right after it. Now even if YP was removed, you could have Dazed just for another token, so YP is removed while you will hit back with Bolt power next turn.
I think in general it will be a meta call of Ur Delver how to play and be build. Right now I am thinking about adding more Burn spells into it and also maybe a single Spell Pierce. If Reanimator becomes SUPER strong which is not a good matchup for us, I will run 9-10 counter spells main + adding Vapor Snag. All this we dont know right now. I am also thinking about Price or Progress, will it stay main? Because PoP is extremely weak against combo, we played it because of the 4c Shaman junk shit all over the place and Lands. All of this is gone now (except for Lands), if Dredge becomes a thing again it can also play manaless so I am really afraid of how good PoP will be in future. That means cutting PoP cut also mean adding Wastelands so your mana will increase in the deck and will replace 4 Probes, the rest is maybe untouched. This is just pure speculation but shows that now Ur is in a spot which the cards will stay the same but it will fight against completely different decks so we dont know the good cards in the new meta yet.
I can say that with DRS and Probe getting banned today that I will be returning to this deck again. I have it on MTGO but rarely play MTGO, and this may make me play the deck on MTGO more often. I'll also get to updating the Primer if @Chatto is still around to enable me to do so.
I'm interested into why you feel the deck is better positioned now, as I thought with the amount of 4C decks and running PoP the deck was well suited. Are you looking at playing a deck that swaps the probes for more burn, or a more controlling Stifle, Young Pyromancer build? I personally feel that a slower Young Pyromancer build is just a worse RUG delver deck, I'm curious what other people's thoughts are?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
I am considering cutting one Bedlam Reveler (was running two, now down to one) and replacing it with a Snapcaster Mage for some extra reach.
I have never thought that the Stifle/Wasteland version of UR Delver was that great. Honestly, if you wanted to play Stifle and Wasteland, you should just be playing Canadian Threshold, especially now that DRS is gone. I am going to be testing the UR prowess build of the deck, with Stormchaser and Swiftspear. Honestly I feel that since the deck slows down a bit, I might be on Reveler main deck to get the extra push in the late game that you will inevitably need sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by coff33bit
What would you replace probe with in the prowess version of the deck ? Is preordain good ?
I'm thinking about initially trying +1 blue fetch land (for a total of 16 lands of: 3 VI, 4 Tarn, 3 blue fetches, 2 red fetches, 2 islands, 2 mountains), +1 Preordain, +1 Forked Bolt, and +1 Gut Shot.
Also on the idea board is moving my Lavamancer to the main deck, replacing one of two Reveler's with a Snapcaster, or 1-2 Chart a Course.
Gutshot ? You expect to see more 1 toughness creatures ?Quote:
Originally Posted by coff33bit
yes Preordain is okay, but definitely not 4. You can add maybe 1-2 Preordain + 1-2 more burn spells or 1-2 more creatures. That should do it probably, the build will be significantly slower but it should work for either Prowess and YP.Quote:
Originally Posted by SIeepwalker
I think DnT and RUG delver will be on the rise so being able to deal with Mom, Delver, Thalia for 2 life is appealing. This is of course subject to change based on how the meta shakes down. Gut Shot can also be thought of as a 2-3 damage spell because of the Prowess creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by SIeepwalker
I've allready been testing after Probe ban against various builds and came to a couple of conclusions:
1. We lost quite A LOT of speed. Many turns I had Swiftspear and a Delver on the board, played Ponder, Bolt, Gitaxian Probe and finished of with a Fireblast while having a counter back up. That was a spell count of 5 (with counter spell) in which Swiftspear came for 6 (!) damage, Delver for 3 and another 7 from Bolt and Fireblast. Obv. this is was happening with only 2 mana and you were ALL THE TIME able to finish your opponent that turn. Without Gitaxian Probe it will be less likely because you dont have a free spell anymore and also more risky because you will not finish with that much damage anymore because you can not grow Swiftspear and Stormchaser (so having 2 mana means actually 2 spells so Swiftspear is "just" another Delver/Bolt). Also digging through your library so fast and easy gets way harder. Because of this the deck becomes a definitely grindier. This hurts THE MOST against control decks and grindy decks such as Stoneblade which go for the long run. Because you will loose to card quaility in general (late Swiftspear topdeck is just not that good) and you are missing a little bit of damage in the first turns so on side you are not so fast anymore to kill them turn 4 for example but you do not have the cards for the late game. Against aggro-control and fast decks it is not hurting that much or as much as you think, the deck did not change as much in its role for example against D&T or Canadian Thresh.
2. With Deathrite Shaman out of the format Legacy is missing a HUGE one drop. That means back then being on the draw while your opponent was starting of with a Shaman the right play to do was ALWAYS to immediately Bolt it, no matter if you played against Grixis or 4c control (there is a case against Turbo depths which you wanted to play creature first). Since this tremendous 1 drop is gone leads to Ur Delver which has to deliver actually more one drops to take the aggressive part in it. Still being on the draw facing a turn 1 Mother of Runes is a must for Bolt T1 (also maybe Goblin Lackey) but since this is less likely than T1 Shaman Ur Delver needs to be the deck which plays T1 a creature. Starting of with Ponder just got a lot worse than before imo.
3. Stormchaser Mage often came for 2 when I played it with Probes, now it only comes for one somehow. So sad because 1 week ago I joust bought a couple of Foil Stormchaser (my bad) but I dont see a world which Stormchaser is nearly as good as before. While Swiftspear still comes for 2-3 consistently Stormchaser is just different. Young Pyromancer also lost its best friend with Probe but since the deck gets grindier, I think YP is the way to go even though it is also quite weakend. Obv not 4 but 1-3 can be playable depending on the build even without Probe.
4. Preordain is actually very good and does almost the same as Ponder and Brainstorm, I think it definitely has a place in the deck. I tested 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder and 2 Preordain and it felt ok, not optimal, but quite fine. I realised with 2-3 hand cards Preordain is actually way better mid-late game than Gitaxian Probe, so while the deck lost its early super power it gained late game a little more flexibilty.
So my todays lesson is:
The deck lost a lot of speed and combo ability especially in the beginning. The meta gets probably a little slower because there is no 1 mana super dork anymore so Ur Delver can compensate the loss with maybe extra 1 drops or maybe something like Thunderous Wrath for extra damage or "combo effect". Turning away from Prowess creatures except Swiftspear is probably the right call because the deck gets a little grindier and can not play as explosive as before.
Ill keep testing and let you know. Heres my build, cheers:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Young Pyromancer
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Bedlam Reveler
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
1 Forked Bolt
2 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
Thanks for the writeup, IamHANDSOME! Interesting reading. What targets do you anticipate in the new meta for the Grim Lavamancer to make him playable in main? Also, isn't Lavamancer + Reveler in main a bit of a anti-synergy?
The point is to add more cc1 creatures for a solid T1 play. I simply want to build the deck more consistent and aggressive at the same time, because the explosiveness of Gitaxian Probe is gone. Lavamancer is an excellent T1 play and also makes damage in later stages when the board does not let creatures to attack anymore. The anti synergie with Reveler is also not a problem because you need them for 2 different matchups, Reveler is better in grindier matchups while Lavamancer is better against creature matchups. I just do not know where to go yet, maybe cutting both Lavamancer for a 2. Reveler because we will fight against grindier decks could also be a solution but Reveler is slowed down also because of the Probe ban. I keep testing it for sure. Today is the last day with playing Probe so enjoy until it you cant.Quote:
Originally Posted by igwtc
How about "mutagenic growth"?
But i'm more concern about wasteland and stifle right now
I think Bomat Courier should be given consideration. I think this card can be so good for a deck like this. Its a one drop, and will go uncontested, provides late game card advantage. i feel like the card was being held back by deathrite shame
lol. Still accurate even if a typo.Quote:
Originally Posted by imreal66
Was a typo, but actually funnyQuote:
Originally Posted by menloe
If we're talking about having good late game, I think Snapcaster Mage is a very viable option. Being able to flashback a PoP or even the ol' Bolt Snap Bolt play is very strong.
I think I want Opt in place of Preordain and the full four Chain Lightning (up from two.)Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
Cheap instants with worse effects than more powerful sorceries seem better in either version of this deck. Might even think about Shock over the additional Chain Lightnings just so I can cast it at instant speed. Sudden Shock looks good too if Miracles goes bananas.
The card is practically a huge flop. Imagine yourself attacking with it 4 times, tapping yourself out and in response it gets killed. So you just made 4 damage in 4 turns and exiled 4 cards you don't even get. Also it is a 1/1, to exile it needs to attack. So many creatures just block it to death, I dont see how the card can ever work. This is Legacy, not Standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by imreal66
Not only that, but the legacy delver deck usually runs 7-12 counterspells pre and post board games, discarding your hand is not something you want to be doing if you have counterspells. Now I think you could possibly argue for including Goblin Guide in a hyper aggressive build over (or in addition) to Swiftspear.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
I've been looking over some of the Japanese UR Delver decks http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/s...hetype=A000344 since the rotation, as they seem to have builds that rely less on Gitaxian Probe. I've noticed most of them are more grindy pyromancer/TNN decks, one player in particular seems fond of running both Fire // Ice, and Dead // Gone. That got me thinking, what is the opinion on Turn // Burn? I know it is more expensive for both sides, but I can see where it could be better in some matchups (as well as worse), and also has some added flexibility of being able to cast both sides. I do really like the idea of running some of these split cards for the added flexibility it provides. Chart a Course is also on my radar, as a possible mid/late game card advantage engine which I believe the deck could easily support.
There's so many things to try.
I've been testing online since Friday non stop with UR, playtime around 11-12 hours in 2 days ^^ A couple of more things I have to add which I can say for sure now:
1. The deck is weakened a lot, but so is the meta. Gitaxian Probe was pretty busted because we were allowed to play a 56 cards deck which was insane in our prowess build. Now with Probe gone the deck is significantly slower, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. You feel your speed loss in the early turns the most. On the other hand there are no real T1 threats anymore, I played vs. couple of Goblins and D&T builds which you need to answer possible T1 creatures, but the format looks like UR Delver being a REAL AGGRO-TEMPO build which can dominate in that category. Also Price of Progress still feels overpowered in our deck which is a good thing. This leads to point number 2.
2. Monastery Swiftspear is still a MUST in the build. So the reason for this is very simple. We are an aggro deck and we need to follow a tempo strategy. The format without Shaman is 1. slower (because all the shells are missing the most powerful dork) and 2. better for combo (because blue decks got worse in genereal, slower in cantripping and finding counterspells and hate cards because of Shaman ban). Means for both you need Swiftspear to 1. make Tempo yourself to follow your aggro plan 2. actually being able to race combo decks. The 2. point is insane, Swiftspear is even when weakened a necessary evil to race combo such as ANT, TES, Lands, even Reanimator and something like Charbelcher. So where Canadian Thresh can be a little slow and have to rely on Stifles, Wasteland and counterspells, Ur Delver can be better by making more damage and being faster in general. I also tested a build without Swiftspears but 3 Lavamancer, 4 Delver, 3 YP, 2 Snapcaster and 2 TNN and the build was just okay but not fast enough to beat several combo decks.
3. D&T with Brightling and Goblins became new decks to beat or lets say bad matchups for us. Both decks can screw us hard soooo I feel that 2 Lavamancer are needed to try to improve these matchups. Also Goblins is not an aggro deck, they play very midrange like so it becomes difficult to fight through Chalice, Vial, Wastelands and several Goblins. Also Lavamancer is a more steady card so it makes the deck without Probe more consistent.
4. Stormchaser and Bedlam Reveler feel like being dead. I could not make them look good in my build since the ban. Reveler looks good on paper but is just awful drawing it early. Also now with having to fight vs. D&T and Stoneblade decks instead of 4c Control Reveler got even worse and Lavamancer is needed. So I cut Reveler and Stormchaser entirely from my list. Its time to play Snapcaster in UR I think.
5. 1-2 Preordain are fine, didn't like to have more.
cheers
If you're willing to lose some % in game one against Reanimator (and other combo decks), going the Sligh route dramatically improves the matchups against decks like D&T and Goblins. The deck is way more aggressive, and doesn't really care about losing Probe. In fact, the loss of DRS is a bigger net positive for the deck, IMO.
you mean a list with Goblin Guide?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanni
R/u Sligh
Lands (18)
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
Spells (28)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Forked Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast
Sideboard (15)
4 Smash to Smithereens
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Seal of Removal
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
Also, I don't think the bans are going to be better for combo long-term. Losing Probe hurts ANT and TES pretty bad... and RUG Delver is going to still police the combo decks.
There is going to be an uptick in Esper Stoneblade, which is strong against combo with its combination of countermagic, discard, and hatebears. D&T will see more play, which is also going to help keep combo in check too.
Reanimator and other graveyard strategies are going to pick up initially because of the loss of DRS, but that will be kept in check by an increase in graveyard hate in sideboards.
Overall, I think the amount of combo will remain mostly the same, with BR Reanimator and Turbo Depths (i.e fast combo) being the hardest ones to deal with for this deck.