4 Card Blind: The Silkster Seasons

Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Thoughtseize, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck, comment:

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Blazing Shoal, Blazing Shoal, Volcanic Salvo, comment: Goblin Smash! - WL
dte: Thassa's Oracle, Island, Daze, Mox sapphire, comment: - DL
Reeplcheep: Cavern of Souls, Thassa’s Oracle, Leyline of Sanctity, Razortide Bridge, comment: Interaction is overrated - LL
Silkster: Underground Sea, Cabal Therapy, Chronomaton, Daze, comment: who needs negation anyway? - WL
FTW: Subtlety, Force of Negation, Strip Mine, Chronomaton, comment: Subtle variations - DL
Asthereal: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs, comment: bit late, had a chess tourney - DL

2w3d = 9 points

Sadly, I still outperformed actual politics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

I think the deck is legal. Shoal can't be cast until there is a Goblin in play.

Chancellor triggers on the first upkeep. In response, ceiling deck can play Lotus + Burning Inquiry + Ravager. There is no legal target to Shoal yet. After the stack resolves, there is only a 1/1 haste Goblin vs 3/3 blocker.

---

Indeed, you're right!
I'll edit :)

GoblinSmashmaster Results for "Round 2: Turn 1 decks"

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Blazing Shoal, Blazing Shoal, Volcanic Salvo, comment: Goblin Smash!
That's me on Goblins! :)

dte: Thassa's Oracle, Island, Daze, Mox sapphire, comment:
Goblin smash! then Thassa 3-3

Reeplcheep: Cavern of Souls, Thassa’s Oracle, Leyline of Sanctity, Razortide Bridge, comment: Interaction is overrated
Goblin smash! 6-0

Silkster: Underground Sea, Cabal Therapy, Chronomaton, Daze, comment: who needs negation anyway?
Goblin smash! then discard 3-3

Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Thoughtseize, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck, comment:
Goblin smash! then discard 3-3

FTW: Subtlety, Force of Negation, Strip Mine, Chronomaton, comment: Subtle variations
you use the force :( 0-6

Asthereal: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs, comment: bit late, had a chess tourney
Goblin smash! then sphere 3-3

18 goblin points!

Asthereal's results for round oh crap I forgot about this:

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Blazing Shoal, Blazing Shoal, Volcanic Salvo WL that's a big gobbo. :smile:
dte: Thassa's Oracle, Island, Daze, Mox sapphire WL
Reeplcheep: Cavern of Souls, Thassa’s Oracle, Leyline of Sanctity, Razortide Bridge DD damn that Leyline! :tongue:
Silkster: Underground Sea, Cabal Therapy, Chronomaton, Daze WL
Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Thoughtseize, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck WD
FTW: Subtlety, Force of Negation, Strip Mine, Chronomaton LL
Asthereal: Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs <-me, considering a rook sac

Total: 15 points?

Do we want to change the rules so that cards in all ceiling decks are banned? To prevent black lotus being played every odd round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Do we want to change the rules so that cards in all ceiling decks are banned? To prevent black lotus being played every odd round.

---

Sounds like a good idea to me.

I think the format will naturally get powered down each round.

Lotus can't do too many shenanigans while losing to Thoughtseize + Mayor. All T0 and T1 decks are already banned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Do we want to change the rules so that cards in all ceiling decks are banned? To prevent black lotus being played every odd round.

---

I'm not convinced that we'll have dominant lotuses every other round, and I also don't think it would necessarily be bad if we did. If we started repeating bigger parts of decks, then that would be a problem. I'd also rather not keep a banned list, preferring to either: 1) ban just Lotus, or 2) change from Vintage to Legacy. If we start getting repetition from they key role players like Chancellor of the Annex, Force of (blue), Thassa's Oracle, and Laboratory maniac, then maybe it would be better to just ban those specifically. Either way, I don't think the change will be necessary this week...

The next ceiling deck is: Bayou, Thoughtseize, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mayor of Avabruck.

For this week, these 4 cards are banned. I'll settle for whatever I've got Sunday/Monday and do my best to check for legalities, but don't depend on me because I completely missed how close the Goblin deck was this week.

Edit: FTW's post appeared while I was writing mine. I'll chalk this one up to "great minds think alike!"

Strip Mine is way more annoying than Lotus.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Strip Mine is way more annoying than Lotus.

---

Strip Mine + Channex is "banned" though.

A lot of Tier 1 strategies from the last 2 rounds are autobanned by having to LL to the ceiling deck. And banning Strip Mine would have 0 impact on the format anyway.

Then next round we have to LL to whatever Goblin deck LL to Thoughtseize Mayor (or possibly something weaker than that), so the power level should keep declining.

So I like silkster's ruling for now. We'll see how the next round or 2 goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Then next round we have to LL to whatever Goblin deck LL to Thoughtseize Mayor (or possibly something weaker than that), so the power level should keep declining.

---

I would bet that the power level will not really decline.
But I am quite curious to see whether I am wrong or right, and it should be fun in either case.

I would even bet that if someone were to submit something purposefully very weak (memnite, go!), power level would climb back in 5-6 rounds.

I do think a discussion is worth having, but I don't like having it during a round because it reveals what you think is going to happen that round. When I post the lists on Tuesday, I plan to list a few ban options to discuss while people do their results.

a27241e9533cc19e6ca8a6a74f951c955e96a748a082d7e6e8c9435b073ad7fa

Deck locked in. I'll check for illegal entries now quickly and send PMs if I see any.

Just realized my entry might be illegal. Give me a minute, I'll send in something new.
EDIT: Done.

Edit2: LOL...
False alarm, just use my first entry. I'm too tired for this crap. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asthereal

Just realized my entry might be illegal. Give me a minute, I'll send in something new.
EDIT: Done.

Edit2: LOL...
False alarm, just use my first entry. I'm too tired for this crap. :rolleyes:

---

I was wondering about that. One other player also submitted an updated version of a deck with a reference to the previous one not being legal, but I think it was legal. Okay, going back to the first entry.

Ceiling Season - Round 3

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins
dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment:
Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please
Asthereal: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond, comment: Too early for supercat?
Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios
FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window
Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good
Asthereal: Inkmoth Nexus, Mountain, Blazing Shoal, Greater Gargadon, comment: attempt nr 2, should be legal this time

Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge; no Lotuses please

Over the last 5 days, I've gone from thinking "no bans necessary" to "oh darn, we're going to have to ban things" to "nevermind, no bans necessary" to "hmm, maybe a ban would be good". I think at this point I would default to not banning anything, but I'm open to suggestions.

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins
LL
dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment:
LL
Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please
Asthereal: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond, comment: Too early for supercat?
WW
Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios
LL
FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window
LL
Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good
LL

6 points. After noticing that 3/4 of Reeplcheep's previous deck was incredibly hard to stop (would have gone 30/36), I once again outthought myself and tried to beat it instead of just playing it, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with (near*) surgical precision. I've done this so many times and every time I swear that I've learned my lesson and I never do. smh

*would have been the perfect 0 before Asthereal's last minute switch. With season score dropping the bottom two, it should be the same anyway.

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins
6-0
6

dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment:
Me, not that subtle

Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please
6-0
12

Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios
6-0
18

FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window
6-0. Why is subtlety out?
24

Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good
6-0
30

Asthereal: Inkmoth Nexus, Mountain, Blazing Shoal, Greater Gargadon, comment: attempt nr 2, should be legal this time
3-3, whether it is infection or supercats.
33

Good score, but never got to use subtlety:/
3cb would have worked the same, 2 cb would have been ok.

FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins
Freebooter gets rid of Pyrokinesis, then Bitterblossom out-tokens you. WW 6-0

dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment:
Good choice to beat Strip Mine & Chancellor. Very bold to have only Subtlety (pitching threat) as interaction. I guess T1 decks & discard were banned so T2 Thassa without interaction is fast enough.
You have the right answers. Strip Mine kills 1 land, you have a 2nd, Freebooter misses, Thassa wins. LL 0-6

Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please
Freebooter takes March, the Bitterblossom out-tokens you. WW 6-0

Asthereal: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond, comment: Too early for supercat?
When you try to go off T2, Strip Mine kills Sanctuary in response to trigger. Bitterblossom wins. WW 6-0
Edit: If it's the other deck, Strip Mine kills Inkmoth, Freebooter exiles Shoal, and Bitterblossom races Gargadon.

Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios
Strip Mine pays for Chancellor tax on Lotus, then Bitterblossom + 1/2 flyer beats a 2/2 & 1/2. WW 6-0

Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good
Mirror. OTP Freebooter takes Elspeth and I win without even playing BB.
OTD you play T1 Elspeth. I play Bitterblossom off Lotus and save Mine to answer Desert (if I expose Mine to yours, Desert kills all my tokens). I think Elspeth still races Bitterblossom.
WL 3-3

27 points (9 wins, 3 loss)

Just to be clear: my entry is the Supercat. I know it's bad but I love the combo too much. :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Then next round we have to LL to whatever Goblin deck LL to Thoughtseize Mayor (or possibly something weaker than that)

---

Hey! :(

GoblinSmashmaster Results for "Round 3: Turn 2"

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins
That's me still on Goblins! :)

dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment:
Thassa :( 0-6

Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please
Goblins smash! 6-0

Asthereal: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond, comment: Too early for supercat?
Goblins smash! 6-0

Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios
Goblins smash! 6-0

FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window
Bitterblossom :( 0-6

Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good
Goblins smash! 6-0

24 goblin points!!!

Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins - LL
dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment: - LL - Should have just played two Strip Mines.
Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please - WW
Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios - WW
FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window - WL
Asthereal: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond, comment: Too early for supercat? - WW - Supercats hate Strip Mine.

7w = 21 points

I got to play Elspeth in a real round, so that was good.

Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Force of Virtue, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, comment: Cheerios
I thought ignoring chancellor/strip mine could excuse a terrible deck.

Wrath of Pie: Black Lotus, Strip Mine, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Desert, comment: Pithing Needle was too good LL
GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek, comment: Meek goblins - I sacrificed power for evasion LL
dte: Saprazzan Skerry, Saprazzan Skerry, Subtlety, Thassa's Oracle, comment: Hey, a good deck, that’s unfair! - LL
Silkster: Plains, Strip Mine, March of Otherworldly Light, Chancellor of the Forge, comment: no Lotuses please - 1/2 Beats 1/1 WW
FTW: Strip Mine, Black Lotus, Bitterblossom, Kitesail Freebooter, comment: Subtlety is out the window - LL
Asthereal: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond, comment: Too early for supercat? - chancellor takes fast bond and win the race. WW

4W 0D 8L =12 points

Asthereal's scores confirmed. I indeed race dte OTP and the rest just screws up my Supercat plan.
I guess it indeed was too early still for the Supercat. No raegrets tho. :tongue:

Does that mean the Supercat becomes the next ceiling deck? Plz? :laugh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

Does that mean the Supercat becomes the next ceiling deck? Plz? :laugh:

---

Banned list =
Strip Mine
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Thoughtseize
Trinisphere
...

This should be interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Banned list =
Strip Mine
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Thoughtseize
Trinisphere
...

This should be interesting.

---

I see only strip mine and FoW (assuming a pitch) as banned.
The others would be playable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FTW

Banned list =
Strip Mine
Chancellor of the Annex
Force of Will
Thoughtseize
Trinisphere
...

This should be interesting.

---

Trinisphere is technically still playable with storage lands.

True, I suppose the others are technically playable... but not playable as normally intended. There has to be a self-induced handicap. Either way, it means a powering down of the format and no need for forced bans.

My apologies to Asthereal (and also everyone else) for my mixup. I just wanted to make my posts and not dwell on how close I was to an actual winning deck. I was so sure this time that people would just jam Thassa's Oracle, and ironically I still lost to the deck that I was targeting.

There has been no discussion of a banlist independent from the ceiling deck. I had thought that it would be my goblin+March deck, and I came to this thread ready to defend myself from playful accusations that I intentionally submitted a terrible deck just to make the ceiling lower. In any case, things are moving, decks are changing, so there's probably no need for a ban-list at the moment. I think we might as well see where this goes, and if people decide that they're sick of Lotus, Strip Mine, Oracle (and its maniacal replacement), then we can do this season over again either in Legacy or with a short perma-banlist.

The ceiling deck for the next round is: Savannah, Selesnya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond.
(Which means that these 4 cards are banned next round.)

There haven't been as many illegal decks as I expected. I was using the back-build season as a comparison where decks were legal based on winning against something, but those decks were so bad and used so many overly complicated cards. I'll confirm my deck some time on Sunday or Monday and then check legality of submitted decks. Feel free to submit and resubmit whenever.

If you don't get a pm in the next five minutes or so, then your deck looks legal to me.

887148ec7b48cc050a4a69809d75b49f36da2258314d818f336fc0eedbcfb0d2

It looks like all the submissions are in. One deck that I thought was illegal got fixed in a way that I'm happy about. It's a close calculation, so hopefully I didn't mess it up.

I have a unique Tuesday commitment, but I should only be 10 or 20 minutes delayed.

Ceiling Season - Round 4: Savannah, Selesneya Sanctuary, Steppe Lynx, Fastbond

Reeplcheep: Mox Tantalite, Mana Confluence, Angel’s Grace, Thassa’s Oracle, comment: We must go even slower
dte: Black lotus, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Bazaar of Baghdad, comment: T1 emrakul can chumpblock the cat to live another turn. Please do not play TOracle.
Asthereal: Karakas, Simic Growth Chamber, Detention Sphere, Oko, Thief of Crowns, comment:
Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Chronomaton, Spell Snare, Sunlance, comment:
Silkster: Black Lotus, Show and Tell, Hushbringer, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: too many wrong answers so it's time for questions
GoblinSmashmaster: Sacred Foundry, Goblin Lackey, Sunlance, Morophon, the Boundless, comment: Goblin smash -2
FTW: Saprazzan Cove, Thassa's Oracle, Subtlety, Commandeer, comment: FoN too strong

Reeplcheep: Mox Tantalite, Mana Confluence, Angel’s Grace, Thassa’s Oracle, comment: We must go even slower
0-6, TO

dte: Black lotus, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Bazaar of Baghdad, comment: T1 emrakul can chumpblock the cat to live another turn. Please do not play TOracle.
Me, chosing the wrong deck this week ;)

Asthereal: Karakas, Simic Growth Chamber, Detention Sphere, Oko, Thief of Crowns, comment:
0-6, karakas.

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Chronomaton, Spell Snare, Sunlance, comment:
6-0
6

Silkster: Black Lotus, Show and Tell, Hushbringer, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: too many wrong answers so it's time for questions
0-6, I did not plan for the mirror
6

GoblinSmashmaster: Sacred Foundry, Goblin Lackey, Sunlance, Morophon, the Boundless, comment: Goblin smash -2
6-0
12

FTW: Saprazzan Cove, Thassa's Oracle, Subtlety, Commandeer, comment: FoN too strong
0-6, TO. I hesitated with this deck with Teferi's Isle instead of cove. Should have picked it :)

12. Recursive T1 emrakul as next ceiling deck?

Reeplcheep: Mox Tantalite, Mana Confluence, Angel’s Grace, Thassa’s Oracle, comment: We must go even slower
Just copying Dre’s homework and then tweaking it to beat the mirror.

dte: Black lotus, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Bazaar of Baghdad, comment: T1 emrakul can chumpblock the cat to live another turn. Please do not play TOracle.
Played thoracle WW

Asthereal: Karakas, Simic Growth Chamber, Detention Sphere, Oko, Thief of Crowns, comment:
T3 thoracle WW

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Chronomaton, Spell Snare, Sunlance, comment:
Snared LL

Silkster: Black Lotus, Show and Tell, Hushbringer, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: too many wrong answers so it's time for questions
Hushed. LL

GoblinSmashmaster: Sacred Foundry, Goblin Lackey, Sunlance, Morophon, the Boundless, comment: Goblin smash -2
Thoracle WW

FTW: Saprazzan Cove, Thassa's Oracle, Subtlety, Commandeer, comment: FoN too strong[
I thought I would be able to ww this one but I didn’t forsee commandeer. DD

6W 2D 4L for 20/36. Better than my previous performances at least.

Reeplcheep: Mox Tantalite, Mana Confluence, Angel’s Grace, Thassa’s Oracle, comment: We must go even slower
WW - Like dte, I was specifically worried about Thassa's Oracle and played around it.

dte: Black lotus, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Bazaar of Baghdad, comment: T1 emrakul can chumpblock the cat to live another turn. Please do not play TOracle.
WW - In my best seasons, our decks overlapped quite a few times, so I take this as a good sign. I was worried about 3 specific cards: Oracle, Chancellor of the Annex, and Force of Negation. I couldn't see how to play around two of them with a single card, but Oracle seemed most important. Here the 1/2 slowly wins the day while we're both too shy to stand up in front of the class.

Asthereal: Karakas, Simic Growth Chamber, Detention Sphere, Oko, Thief of Crowns, comment:
LL - I was kicking myself for a while for not playing It That Betrays instead in order to play around Karakas. It wasn't until the next morning that I realized that Oko can just elk the eldrazi either way. Then I realized that S&T doesn't let you play Oko, but it does let you play Detention Sphere. If I'm going to lose to two different cards, it's a good thing they're in the same deck! Like this prisoner's hat problem.

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Chronomaton, Spell Snare, Sunlance, comment:
WW - I had spell Snare in one of my lists too.

Silkster: Black Lotus, Show and Tell, Hushbringer, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, comment: too many wrong answers so it's time for questions
Last week I hyperfocused on beating what I thought would be the bogeyman of the round, and then just lost to the variety. Which is a good thing for the format!

GoblinSmashmaster: Sacred Foundry, Goblin Lackey, Sunlance, Morophon, the Boundless, comment: Goblin smash -2
WW - Tentacle smash. I figured Plateau to Sacred Foundry was a good switch to gain legality and probably not going to change anything else. If you had been absent today, I was considering just making the switch for you. It's not the best precedent, but it's such a clean change in this specific case.

FTW: Saprazzan Cove, Thassa's Oracle, Subtlety, Commandeer, comment: FoN too strong
DD - For a moment I was excited that Show and Tell does not care at all about being Commandeered. Then I realized that you just took the Lotus and could then use it to cast Oracle. Then I realized that you need to spend the Oracle and Lotus does not help you cast Saprazzan Cove.
LL - Wrong again! I can beat the Oracle, but Subtlety eventually comes down and attacks me.

24 points.

Black Lotus is definitely a bigger player than I thought it would be before the season started, but I'm enjoying the way that it's constrained. Oracle is also a bigger player than I'd expected. The diversity is still looking pretty good and we haven't gone in any loops. We could ban some cards, but I'd rather play this out and then make a new season with a short banlist. I also think that a specific banlist is probably better than just going down to Legacy because we get such gems as Supercat!

For a moment this week I got lost in the weeds thinking that slow lands into Oracle and slow lands in general could be very popular, and I came up with Dryad Arbor, Lotus, Lotus, Gaea's Liege to disrupt lands but not Fastbond. But at that point I might as well have played Gray Ogre and Stone rain off of Lotuses.

If DTE ends up as the ceiling deck, I would like clarification if the random shuffle ends up worse for the emrakul owner or the discard owner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

If DTE ends up as the ceiling deck, I would like clarification if the random shuffle ends up worse for the emrakul owner or the discard owner.

---

Emrakul owner is the shuffle effect owner, worse for her/him.

@Silk: I think you LL vs FTW: you can't S&T, FTW can chose between casting TO with subtlety up, or just casting subtlety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dte

Emrakul owner is the shuffle effect owner, worse for her/him.

@Silk: I think you LL vs FTW: you can't S&T, FTW can chose between casting TO with subtlety up, or just casting subtlety.

---

Ok.

Can’t he just put in hushbringer like against me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Ok.

Can’t he just put in hushbringer like against me?

---

I can, but then I'll lose later to the Subtlety, I think.

This is actually a question about "full information" that I tried asking many many seasons ago and I don't think I really got an answer. I think that the choices for S&T are made simultaneously, so how does one choose if there's no correct choice? If Emrakul loses to Oracle, Oracle loses to Hushbringer, Hushbringer loses to Subtlety, Subtlety loses to Emrakul, then there's no right choice. But Oracle still beats Hushbringer by casting Subtlety 6 turns later. Also, I think the answer to this question is that the NAP gets to know what the AP chooses for the purposes of 4CB.