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Indeed, a good player will only play/reanimate his Ooze with Devourer and Triskelion in the graveyard. And if he does so, you'll be dead before gaining priority again. I would recommend some Graveyard Hate ( I prefer Tormod's Crypt) and a Krosan Grip as soon as you have the mana and a Survival to target.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpT
Forgive me, the Ooze is a different story because of their dominating the Stack.
Otherwise, SCG Opens are the only metagame where survival is running amock. There's no real tech for Zoo against Survival, just a game plan. If it is the case that one sees so much survival, zoo probably isn't the deck to be playing.
Hi I have been pondering playing this deck. But is it realy not a good deck to play with survival around?
Moving forward please comment on this list. I'm planning on playing it on the comming tourney. Got it from deck chek. I may change some cards but I would keep the core. thanks a lot!
Mainboard:
Creatures :
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Others :
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Basilisk Collar
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands :
2 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
60 CardsSideboard:
1 Blood Moon
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ghostly Prison
3 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
15 Cards
Do you anticipate a bit of Surivival? If so, it's probably not the best deck. It's slower than normal Zoo, and speed is what beats Survival.
This deck just went 5th place even with a survival infested meta. Saw the list from the recent worlds legacy public event. So i guess zoo can still do well even with survival around?:smile: any comments on the list will be appreciated?Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Mainboard:
Creatures (21):
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Others (17):
3 Chain Lightning
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
Lands (22):
3 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
2 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
60 Cards
Sideboard:
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
15 Cards
zoo reborn? ^^
Hello, I'm trying to play another version of Zoo, this quite interresting to play with. So I'm wondering if you have any ideas to devellope the concept :
Lands (23):
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Taiga
2 Plateau
2 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arid Mesa
1 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
Creatures (23):
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Steppe Lynx
4 PLated Geopede
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Vinelasher Kudzu
Spells (13) :
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Crop Rotation
2 Sylvan Library
Sideboard (15) :
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Umezawa's Jitte
The whole plan of the deck is based on lands, make a big steppe lynx or a big plated geopede, or both, attack after a fetching and cast crop rotation to make a 8/9 steppe lynx and a 9/9 plated geopede, and if able, cast a lightning bolt ending the game. Knights also helps us to make our Landfall creatures bigger, Vinelasher Kudzu may be not the better choice for this version, let me know what you think.
A possible turn 3 win in zoo make our matchups better against Survival/Vengevine-like,Combo : doomsday/TES/ANT. The deck is faster and we keep the spirit of a zoo deck, he remains very good against merfolk, dredge, etc...
This sideboard is the one I uses for pretty every version of zoo, Red blast for everythings Blue, bojuka because we have 4 knights, relic because of the leyline, krosan : CB/Topther, Mindbreak : it's always hard against combo, and jitte for mirror matchups, goblin, merfolk, vengevine, etc...
Sorry if my english is not at best, I'm french, have a nice day :)
Here in italy (at least before the daily b/r that eradicats the problem at the source) zoo still harvest good results even if there are a lot of madness.deck (especially when talking about uw, gw version is a bit more complicated to beat). Here is my list:
2x Grim lavamancer
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Path to exile
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Sylvan Library
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothiils
2x Arid Mesa
3x Plateau
2x Taiga
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Wasteland
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
Sideboard:
2x Pyroblast
2x Krosan grip
2x Path to Exile
2x Pithing Needle
3x Gaddock Teeg
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Bojuka Bog
This list respond to the gameplan "remove the big meany, play the big meany" , six removal effects are what i was looking for when facing a 4/3 haste that returns from his deadland, and knights and tarmo are just the biggest beating machines that green can give us :) add to this wasteland and u can start to understand why uw madness wasn't such a problem...a 2nd turn wasteland + bolt on hierarch/bird was sometimes enough to slow my oppononent enough to race him to victory.
one major problem that i saw through testing is that configuration improves the mu against madness (now almost dead) and other decks like the rock (here still played) or control decks like jacestill but it is a little worse aginst consolidated mu like merfolks (especially the ub version with perish) and goblin. Also t.e.s. and enchantress get terribly worse as we cannot race them fast enough to kil before they start off to combo and/or lock us.
As a little example of MU last sunday i ended 10 over 50 in a tournament, amd my mu's was :
turn 1 mirror (2-0)
turn 2 Faeries Stompy (2-1)
turn 2 t.e.s. (1-2)
turn 3 Italian Zoo (2-0)
turn 5 RB Goblin (1-2)
turn 6 Enchantress (win by drop)
The most noticeable mu was against italian zoo (playing with steppe linx) where my opponenet couldn't even put a threat on table that got removed immediately after :9
Seeing as the Survival decks are going to be much less of a factor, what direction do you guys think would it be best to take Zoo in to adjust for the new metagame? It's probably impossible to predict for sure, but I would guess that merfolk, countertop, and lands (as well as zoo itself) will see an increase in popularity.
Thoughts?
I almost think playing Vengevine as a 4 drop is viable.
I was wondering if that wouldn't be viable with Fauna Shaman. Maybe Nobles, Fauna Shaman and Vengevines along with some of the normal stuff. Could be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
Maybe Fauna Shaman would work if you turned the deck into some kind of haterade creature toolbox deck, but it's not really in Zoo's nature as a deck currently to want to have creature slots that you either want to sandbag or that you have to wait a while/devote other slots to make them useful, like vengevine. Fauna Zoo might be interesting though, like have like a singleton Burning Tree Shaman, Quirion Ranger, Aven Mindcensor, Gaddock Teeg, Eternal Witness, Magus of the Moon, a couple vengevines, etc etc, with the Wild Nacatl/ little dude basic package.
It seems to me that if survival is gone the incentive for going 'big Zoo' in order to become more resilient to vengevines is diminished, and that perhaps returning to a more 'traditional' zoo list is in order. Here's what I'm thinking:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loam Lion
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Creatures [24]
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
Spells [14]
4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Lands [22]
SIDEBOARD
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
Sideboard [15]
Granted, I haven't really played in a metagame where vengevine-survival was popular, so if I'm misunderstanding the reasoning behind big zoo please correct me.
Fast Zoo was way better against vengevines than Big Zoo because you just killed them the turn before they went off.
And seriously, Steppe Lynx is a key component of why that's possible. Lynx is unreasonably awesome, and if you're not playing him you're not doing yourself any favors.
Big Zoo seems a lot better without veggies meta... If meta becomes again Zoo - Countertop - Merfolks, big zoo is a lot better than fast zoo...
TES and ANT will probably begone, Countertop in meta can do that...
Big Zoo beats Fast Zoo, and the merfolks matchup is still easy...
The only problem i see, is UBG JaceStill, wich is hard but a proper side can deal with it, although merfolks just rape this deck... so i believe Big Zoo is a right meta call right now...
I also think Big Zoo will be stronger in the new environment. T.E.S turns into the most attractive deck, and hopefully people will gravitate back toward Counterbalance and Merfolk in response. I'll be boarding for Combo, and playing Noble Hierarch + Elspeth.
Pack ajani vengeant too, this dude is so awesome against Counterblance and landstill...Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Catitas: TES will not be gone and is only getting stronger; silly rabbit. Any combo decks (and there are a lot in the meta game right now) palpably gives the edge to traditionally Zoo builds because big zoo is just too slow and not as consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catitas
JVzer0: Playing 4x Knight without any mana accelerant is not a prudent move. In a traditional, non-big zoo build without Noble Hierarch, two seems to be the right number of Knights. Moreover, running Swords to Plowshares over Path to Exile in Zoo especially in traditional, non-big zoo undermines the decks speed and principle objective with burn being a key finishing component. I also question your choice of playing Loam Lion over Steppe Lynx considering your running 11 fetch lands and you’re also playing Sylvan Library to further buttress this choice. In this regard I agree with hungry that Steppe is a sound choice for a traditional Zoo build. I steadfastly maintain my previous position in relation to Steppe Lynx: See page 147, thread #2927 of this forum.
I used to play ANT before survival was banned, and already playtested against countertop, i ended up 2-12, tested half of them with side...TES is even worse than ANT, it has a terrible manabase so it loses even more to merfolks, against countertop the TES manabase is irrelevant, but the matchup still sucks... You said TES is getting stronger why? Time Spiral is a worse diminishing returns, besides that they dont have any new cards, so their power will remain the same, they're not getting stronger...Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney
Even high tide decks none of them are a matchup for countertop...
So yup i believe there will be people playing with them but in a Countertop/Merfolks/Zoo meta they will lose popularity and will be played even less...
Big zoo is a better meta call, beats fast zoo, merfolks and has a fair matchup against Countertop...Still sucks against combo but post board that can be fixed...
Countertop is not finishing top 8 or even top 16 in any recent events and even if it does pick up in popularity with the banning of survival, that is just speculation and hypothetical right now. Sounds like TES is probably not the deck for you based on that record you posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catitas
TES is not worse than ANT and since the banning of Mystical Tutor TES has been a far superior and more consistent deck. At GP Columbus when there was a ton of countertop in the meta, Bryant Cook playing TES dominated that match up consistently. Moreover, two ANT decks topped 8 at the last Star City Games Legacy Open in Richmond. At the Dutch Eternal Championships Eindhoven which saw 207 legacy players the top 2 decks were TES and ANT. At the last two GP’s Columbus saw a TES top 8 and Madrid saw two ANT top 4. This combo deck continues to get better and is growing with popularity and keeps on getting better with time. Now that survival is banned, I suspect even more players will start playing it.
I categorically disagree with you that big zoo is a better metagame call at present time. Traditional Zoo is substantially faster, more consistent and actually has a fighting chance at beating combo. Up until the banning which just took effect today, Big Zoo really could not be survival and fast Zoo could actually out race them and beat them with speed and consistency.
Traditional fast Zoo has an equal if not better match up against Merfolk, has a better match against the vast majority of control and has a much better matchup against combo and was palpably batter against survival. Traditional fast Zoo will also be better then Big Zoo against the new Vengevine u/g/b madness that is replacing survival.