I've noticed that having the tokens makes getting a lethal order-hoof way easier to do. Not sure if it's winmore or not. Haven't really seen that many situations where Beck was better than a glimpse due to hivemaster. I keep trying anyway!
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I've noticed that having the tokens makes getting a lethal order-hoof way easier to do. Not sure if it's winmore or not. Haven't really seen that many situations where Beck was better than a glimpse due to hivemaster. I keep trying anyway!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
Well if you have a very combo heavy meta, you could always play Gu elves with FoW in the sideboard. It's a lot more grindy, but do able.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Wirewood Hivemaster
4 Zameck Guildmage
2 Quirion Ranger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Regal Force
4 Beck//Call
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Brainstorm
2 Crop Rotation
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
SB
4 Force Of Will
4 Mindbreak Trap
11 Blue cards maindeck then siding in the 4 FoW and 4 MBT gives you 19 blue cards, making pitching to FoW very easy.
I think that getting so heavy in blue still won't make our combo MU favourable, right? I'd really prefer trying to deal with that using Therapies, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevaftw
Then again, it might be just right. Test it if you like it:wink:
It also seems that hivemaster is nice against blade control, as their Engineered Explosives miss both hivemaster and its tokens.
What's the latest stock list for deathrite / elves?
3 brainstorms? No symbiote/visionary? Emrakul? Forbidden orchard doesn't do enough. You're forgetting Coiling Oracle too. Prevents running more than 2 cradles though (sub with rotation) so you don't accidentally legend rule yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevaftw
Most people are still using Matt Nass and LSV's GP Denver list. The main differences are slight tweaks to the mana base (i.e. cradle/rotation split, number of basics, or utility lands) and the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Roughly this. Maindeck Shaman and especially Teeg are flex slots. Most run a Titania instead of Teeg main. A second Craterhoof instead of Regal Force is also an option. Anticombo spell splits in the board typically 4 therapy, 2 trap or 2/2/2 therapy/seize/trap. I just like my discard.
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Llanowar Elves
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 Gaddok Teeg
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
2 Crop Rotation
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Gaea's Cradle
Sideboard
1 Progenitus
1 Natural Order
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Scavenging Ooze
Ok, i've tested quite a bit and glimpse is just better. Even with the added value of having the creatures from hivemaster and GSZ to draw cards, it doesn't justify the problems of the cost of the card.
While testing this however, I did fell in love with hivemaster. The tokens are awesome! They support the beatdown plan, and often made the difference when combo'ing into a hoof. I felt like the extra creatures I got from hivemaster improved my Jund MU, so there's that at least. Also, pendelhaven is a real boss in that MU. My current list:
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Heritage Druid
3 wirewood hivemaster
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn elves
1 Birchlore Rangers
1 scavenging ooze
1 qasali pridemage
1 Regal Force
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
2 Crop Rotation
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Pendelhaven
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Gaea's Cradle
I didn't know what else to cut to add a fourth brainstorm. The idea was that since I cut natural order I needed something to help filter for cards I needed or to draw into FoW plus blue card against combo. I cut symbiote/visionary because of the using zameck guildmage as a slower draw engine with the benefit of a semi permanent lord effect. Also, the hivemaster and forbidden orchard was there to play along with beck. Coiling Oracle wouldn't be a bad idea if you wanted to keep in wirewood symbiote.Quote:
Originally Posted by nudon
Is Elves Combo more focused on Natural Order than any other card in the deck? I'm just curious. :)
Depends a lot on the hand and the matchup, but it's super important yes.
Hello folks,
Yesterday I played at a 27-man, 5-round tournament with Elves:
Round 1: 2-0 vs. Sneak and Show
Round 2: 2-0 vs. Affinity
Round 3: 1-2 vs. TES
Round 4: 1-1 vs. RUG Delver
Round 5: 2-0 vs. BWg
I ended up doing 3-1-1.
(Unfortunately, the tiebrakers gave me the 9th place, sending me away from the Top 8.)
If anyone is interested, on the following link there's the exact list I played, accompanied by a detailed report:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/elves-2013-04-14/
I hope that those who read it, enjoy it.
Sincerely,
- André
@andre could you explain your reasoning when you side out your birchlore ranger when bringing sideboard cards with splash colors? Ilike cabal therapy, abrupt decay, teeg, etc).
Elves T1: Fetch, Bayou, Deathrite, go
TES T1: Duress
Sees: Green Sun, Mindbreak Trap, Deathrite #2, something
Takes: Mindbreak Trap
???????????????
Elves T2: GSZ X=1, get Deathrite #3
T3 the Elves player topdecks Gaddock Teeg
What are these plays, I don't even know. Why would you go for a third Deathrite when the GSZ gets a Turn 3 Teeg, guaranteed? Which surely impacts winning far, far more than the third Deathrite ever could. Getting the third Deathrite is essentially just handing the game to TES (who previously handed the game to you by not taking your GSZ. Dunno why you'd care about MBT with Silence.dec)
Well, in general I regarded Birchlore Rangers more of as a "(not green)-colored mana backup" in case a Wasteland disrupts my mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by trevaftw
So, on the MUs that I did not expect a Wasteland to destroy my Bayou/Savannah, I sided him out, expecting that it would not harm me much, since I still had 9 fetch lands to find the relevant dual land.
I did consider cutting one Heritage Druid on some MUs, but ended up instead prefering to maintain it's full playset and cut the Birchlore Rangers, since the Druid would help me maximize the odds of comboing - and it also serves as an excellent counterspell bait.
To be honest I confess I have some difficulty and plenty of hesitation when sideboarding, so it may be that I am wrong on many of my siding plans - but I always tried to keep in the deck the central pieces of the combo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Hi,
I agree on you on the superiority of getting a Gaddock Teeg from a GSZ, than a DRS, on this MU.
However, the situation was that I did not have enough lands (nor fetch lands on both GYs) to cast a GSZ this turn.
So, instead of hoping to draw another fetchland on the next turn to cast the GSZ for Gaddock, I opted to cast the zenith right away to get something that (I thought) might help on the game.
But seeing it now, I agree with you on considering it as a not optimal choice of play.
(I'm sure I did lots of misplays during the tournament, and I'm glad that by writing the report and getting a feedbak can make me see more clearly which ones were the mistakes, and how to avoid them next time.)
...
On the Trap issue, I'm not certain, but it might be that he did not had the Silent at hand and was not willing to risk me interrupting his combo before he draws into one.
Or it could be the case that he did not know Elves lists that splash W for Gaddock, and since I had not fetched a Savannah, he might have not seen that coming. (I know that there is also the case of an Elves player having a Gaddock on SB without having a Savannah on the deck, but still, I'm just speculating that the previous thinking might have crossed his mind.)
Or, even if he expected a Gaddock from my SB, since he saw that I did not have the mana to cast a GSZ for it, he might just have opted to discard the garanteed hate card, in order to clear the path for his combo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
In what list did you test Beck//Call and why was Glimpse better? Your decklist doesn't mention Beck/Call nor a mana base that's specifically built to take advantage of the fuse-cost.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...6&d=1365394219
You are able to use your 'glimpses' (Beck // Call's in this case) to draw 4 cards immediately, even though you don't have a bunch of cards in hand. It's not just the fact that Beck has an enters the battlefield clause over glimpse's 'whenever you cast' clause.
The list you quoted is my current list, after dismissing the use of Beck // Call. There were several problems with playing just Beck // Call and some tropicals. The first really big thing that made it worse is that you will have harder time using this for a 'value glimpse'. The extra mana means one less card value. Secondly, which is big, is that you can't cast it off heritage druid mana. The only way to pay for it is either with deathrite, birchlore rangers or duals. This puts us way more in a certain splash than only deathrite shaman does for black. It allows your opponent to shut you down way easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
And finally, comboing gets a bit harder. When I combo, I'm often very tight on mana in the first few creaturedrops after a glimpse of nature. Quite often, I use my last floating mana to get out a new elf which can tap for mana. This means that there are many situations where a glimpse would get you the game while a Beck // Call does not. On the other hand, however, there aren't that many situations where Beck // Call brings the game in your favor where a glimpse wouldn't.
I don't think Beck // Call should be dismissed altogether, since it does have applications as you mention. But I might have been playing the wrong configuration. For me, it occured way more often that I wished a Beck // Call to be a glimpse than the other way around.
Why did you make a swap with Glimpse, and not play both together so as to have 5+ copies of "glimpse"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hencules
Hi!! i have no money for duals :( , so what is the best mono-G build to do?
would it be competitive?