Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...3698027444.png
BOOM!
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
6, T, sacrifice this: Put 3 colourless 1/1 eldrazi scion creature tokens to the battlefield. They have sacrifice this: add 1 to your mana pool.
at least you don't need 7 lands like for the other one .
I realize Crystal Vein already exists, but this is 1 more mana than Crystal Vein.. delayed for a turn.
I guess it is also terrible .
…
DID ANYBODY NOTICE ,
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...9496859446.png
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/lg/301.jpg
this guy?
He's a 4/4 that Sol Ring's you . He doesn't draw cards like Hedron Archive but he's a 4/4 .
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Return to Zendikar might just push this deck up a tier. But I'm guessing, we will be dumping Metalworkers from our lists as our reliance on artifacts falls some more.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wilkin
It's not win more if the first dude gets countered/plowed etc.
I think it's worth looking at for sure. I wonder how many creatures you would need to run to make it worth it. Looking at my version of MUD, I only have 1 Sundering Titan and 1 Blightsteel Colossus main. I'd need more 7+ mana creatures IMO. Hey Myr Enforcer is a 7 mana dude that is usually cast for much much cheaper j/k.
Too bad it wasn't 6 mana and up. That would be nuts, triggering after every cast Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite etc.
I would not necessarily add more +7CMC robots unless you want to completely wreck your curve. If I want to abuse this card, I'd probably get rid of Blightsteel Colossus to play more robots I can reasonably cast, like Platinum Emperion, Platinum Angel, Myr Battlesphere, Sundering Titan, or a lower-end Eldrazi. Conduit of Ruin can act as a pseudo +7CMC beater, albeit, not a robot but an Eldrazi, which may not work well in a Metalworker strategy deck. With Conduit of Ruin, you can do something like:
Turn X - Cast Ugin (8 mana), crack Sactum of Ugin to search for Conduit of Ruin
Turn X+1 - Cast Conduit of Ruin (6 mana) to search for Myr Battlesphere
Turn X+2 - Play Sanctum of Ugin from grave with Crucible of Worlds, Cast Myr Battlesphere (5 mana), crack Sactum of Ugin to search for Conduit of Ruin
Turn X+3 - Cast Conduit of Ruin (4 mana) to search for Sundering Titan
etc.
With the stock 12-Post Metalworker list, I don't think there is much use for Sactum of Ugin. To be honest, I think our sister deck, Turbo Eldrazi, may have more use of this card, because they have ways to search for specific lands (via Crop Rotation and Expedition Map) and able to stabilize their manabase against Wasteland better with cards like Pithing Needle and Trickbind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Troll_ov_Grimness
He is also just Palladium Myr + Bear. I think the main issue with this card is that you can't use its ability immediately, is not as powerful as Metalworker (which is worth the risk), and is not a robot. Being Bolt proof is relevant though.
Frankly, unless there is a Eldrazi as powerful and cost efficient as Ugin, I don't think I will be interested. It wouldn't bode well with our strategy, which is based off of Metalworker and artifacts.
If you guys want to design a Mono-Brown Cloudpost deck that forgoes Metalworker, that's a different topic entirely.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clark Kant
Return to Zendikar might just push this deck up a tier. But I'm guessing, we will be dumping Metalworkers from our lists as our reliance on artifacts falls some more.
Yeah... this wont happen. That's the point of the deck. If we want to play bad eldrazi, then we'll play bad eldrazi but it wont be called MUD or metalworker.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
MUD doesn't have to include Metalworker or Grim Monolith
these are the two cards I see being cut for Hedron Archive (with draw 2) and the 4/4
this gives the deck more ramp effects (Sol lands)
Thran Dynamo floods you out . doesn't draw, doesn't cantrip.
Hedron Archive is going to change the deck a lot I think
I think the 4/4 will draw removal, so it's good . More of a hate magnet than Metalworker
he's also a creature to reveal with that new removal spell
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Troll_ov_Grimness
MUD doesn't have to include Metalworker or Grim Monolith
these are the two cards I see being cut for Hedron Archive (with draw 2) and the 4/4
this gives the deck more ramp effects (Sol lands)
Thran Dynamo floods you out . doesn't draw, doesn't cantrip.
Hedron Archive is going to change the deck a lot I think
I think the 4/4 will draw removal, so it's good . More of a hate magnet than Metalworker
he's also a creature to reveal with that new removal spell
Without Metalworker it can still pass off as MUD/Stax.
Without Grim Monolith as well, there's no way that can be called MUD.
And when you add your Eldrazis, it sounds like you'll conflict with Lodestone.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
The list I've been playing has for 7+cmc spells:
2 ugin
2 sundering titan
1 platinum angel
1spine of ish sha
1 blightsteel colossus
I may test a one of sanctum of ugin in place of the third vesuva, but I'm not sure I see it being worth it since most of the time these guys are forgemasted for rather than cast.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Anyway to add the new Ugin's Insight into here? Or is the double blue too much of a restriction?
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZEROorDIE
The list I've been playing has for 7+cmc spells:
2 ugin
2 sundering titan
1 platinum angel
1spine of ish sha
1 blightsteel colossus
I may test a one of sanctum of ugin in place of the third vesuva, but I'm not sure I see it being worth it since most of the time these guys are forgemasted for rather than cast.
my list runs that +1 platinum emperion. That's the perk of having 4 vesuva. I'll remove a cavern of souls for a sanctum, because cavern as powerful as it is, is not relevant in all matches like the sanctum. if I feel it became too slow, I might lower the curve and go 2-2 on cavern/waste and remove 1 vesuva and 1 city for sanctums. That will reduce the amount of T1 chalice, but I managed to cash in with a list with 2 cities MD in both tournaments I used it, although it wasn't tested thoroughly.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Troll_ov_Grimness
MUD doesn't have to include Metalworker or Grim Monolith
these are the two cards I see being cut for Hedron Archive (with draw 2) and the 4/4
this gives the deck more ramp effects (Sol lands)
Thran Dynamo floods you out . doesn't draw, doesn't cantrip.
Hedron Archive is going to change the deck a lot I think
I think the 4/4 will draw removal, so it's good . More of a hate magnet than Metalworker
he's also a creature to reveal with that new removal spell
We play Metalworker and Grim Monolith specifically to ramp into big spells as soon as we can, by turn two or three. A ramp spell that cost 4 or 5 mana does not help in that regard. Those spells serve as mana stabilizers in the mid game. They serve a complete different purpose. You can compare Hedron Archive and Kozilek's Channeler to Thran Dynamo, sure. But comparing those two cards to Grim Monolith and Metalworker is a stretch.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...889910421.jpeg
Blighted Cataract
Land
T: add 1 to your mana pool.
5U, T, sacrifice this: Draw two cards.
that blue mana symbol
wizards what the heck..
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Yeah, this set honestly is too "colorless" based rather than artifact. i dont think we'll get much from this one.
Alright, as i said i would, tournament report from worcester this past weekend. Little history first, I started magic in 96 and played until 02, then took a looong hiatus until i picked it up again last year around the time Khans came out. I play mostly Legacy but dabble in limited and standard. i definitely prefer constructed formats. Ive been playing this deck since Jan 2015 after playing a bunch of janky sneak attack decks following my return. so...
Here we go
List:
Creatures
4x Metalworker
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Kuldotha Forgemaster
3x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Platinum Angel
2x Sundering Titan
1x Blightsteel Colossus
Artifacts
4x Grim Monolith
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Trinisphere
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Staff of Domination
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Coercive Portal
Planeswalkers
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Lands
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
3x Vesuva
3x Cavern of Souls
2x Wasteland
Sideboard
2x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Spellskite
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Staff of Nin
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Karn Liberated
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
R1- Miracles
G1- i start off strong. hitting my land drops and dropping early chalice and a bunch of dudes. i manage to get him down to 2 life, but he has jace on board and has leveled my board with StP+terminus. he ultimates jace and i lose the game at 37 life.(had 6 glimmerpost 4 real 2 vesuva)
G2- Very similar. i had hardcast blightsteel twice, he Jace bounced, i have him at 5 with a lodestone golem after he StP the other lodestone and blightsteel in hand still after he snap kept his Senseis top scry(i know hes keeping a terminus on top in case i cast blightsteel again.) he terminuses my lodestone and ultimates jace i play blightsteel into a counterpell and lose.
SB tech- in- x2 revoker, x1 spine of ish sha, x1 Karn; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 wurmcoil, 1 ugin, 1 crucible of worlds
0-1
R2- Elves- my opponent is Danny Jessup, this should be interesting.
G1- i drop chalice not knowing what hes on, he plays verdant catacombs pass, dont rememebr much after this but rec sage and craterhoof make sure im dead by t4
G2- t1- tomb-monolith-3sphere, t2 tomb, lodestone, he decays the sphere, and goes off with craterhoof
SB tech- in-x2 ratchet bomb, x2 ensnaring bridge, x1 staff of nin, x1 steel hellkite; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 platinum angel, 1 chalice, 1 crucible, 1 coercive portal, 1 sundering titan
0-2
little bummed at this point, my losses felt inevitable
R3- Merfolk/fish idk
G1- Mull to 5, keep a hand with 3sphere, lodestone, titan, city and vesuva- i lose very quickly.
i stop here for a second to ask my deck not to crap itself anymore as i didnt really want to 0-3 drop
G2- drop turn 1 metalworker, on t2 lodestone t3 forgemaster, pass, EoT get blightsteel, swing for the win- Alright thats what im talking about
G3- i stick an early metalworker, and lodestone, he clogs up the board with merfolk and bounces one or two of my dudes with harbinger of tides, i promptly play ugin, blow out his board and hardcast blightsteel the following turn.
SB tech- in- x2 ratchet bomb, x1 staff of nin; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 crucible, 1 coercive portal
1-2
R4- Merfolk again- good ole x-2 bracket
G1- t2 cercive portal, t3 metalworker and 3sphere off of a monolith, t4 forgemaster and two chalice on 0, pass, EoT blightsteel FTW
G2- i play a t2 wurmcoil off 2 monlith, he phantasmal images my wurncoil, we stare at each other awkwardly for a minute, he attacks, i block, same the following turn, but i cast a metalworker, he plays some fish and passes back, i play staff of domination and combo off
SB tech- Same as above
2-2 picking up some gas, but have a lot of work to do
R5-Death and Taxes
G1- he does standard DnT things(Mom x2, wasteland, stoneforge, batterskull) but lets me untap with an active metalworker, i play staff and go off.
G2- same shenanigans, for some reason didnt board out Mom, i play lots of post mana, a greaves, then hardcast a blightsteel colossus and equip greaves, he blocks with most of his dudes and dies the next turn
SB tech- in- x2 Ratchet bomb, x2 revoker, x1 staff of nin; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 coercive portal, 1 staff of dom, 1 platinum angel, 1 titan; may have also pulled a wurmcoil for another crucible
3-2
R6- Omni-Tell- opponent is Bob Huang, writer for CFB who just wrote a very nice piece on the history of legacy.
G1- get my lock pieces countered but he does t3 SnT, he goes for emrakul, i go for blightsteel, he passes, i attack, he blocks and now has a 4/4 emrakul, i manage to get 7 permanants on board so when he swings with emrakul i can keep blightsteel and win
G2- i get him down to 4 with a whole bunch of tax effects and 2 3sphere on board, he combos off and wins
G3- t2 or 3 staff/metalworker combo
SB tech- in- x2 ensnaring bridge, x1 emrakul; out- 1 wurmcoil, 1 titan, 1 ugin
4-2
R7- Death and taxes
G1- t1 city-monolith-metalworker, t2- sundering titan for nothing since his first land was a cavern of souls, he StP the titan after i get to attack with it once, t3 staff of domination, go nuts
G2- cast a t2 or 3 forgemaster but first have to dig up staff of nin to kill a mangara of coronder, draw a lightning greaves and a monolith, play both, then the following turn forgemaster up blightsteel, equip greaves and win
SB tech- close enough to the above
5-2
R8- Grixis control- nice guy, neither of us will make top 16 so we ID guaranteeing us both top 32. play a couple games anyway
G1- i get a t1 chalice, t2 lodestone, but have totally check out at this point and miss like 3 chalice triggers. i lose to an army of pyromancer tokens
G2- i dont even remember, no notes taken, i mulled into crap at 5 cards and didnt do much.
SB tech- in- x2 ratchet bomb, x1 spellskite, x1 steel hellkite; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 platinum angel, 1 staff, 1 coercive portal
5-2-1, 25th of 169 for the day
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
I've always felt like Elves is a complete coin-flip. Especially now that they have reclamation sage. That used to be a pretty favorable MU.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
R1- Miracles
SB tech- in- x2 revoker, x1 spine of ish sha, x1 Karn; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 wurmcoil, 1 ugin, 1 crucible of worlds
I'd SB Blightsteel Colossus out since Sundering Titan is always the best target and Miracles has good answers against Blightsteel. Answering Sundering Titan usually means a net loss of 5-6 Lands. I would have kept Ugin in too. If you had 4 Wastelands, Crucibles are worth keeping in because Wastelands are pretty strong against a mana hungry deck that is Miracles. I think Wurmcoil Engine is better than Platinum Angel because Wurmcoil Engine is much more aggressive, and Miracles can answer Platinum Angel pretty well. I don't think I'd had cut the Forgemaster.
Quote:
R2- Elves
SB tech- in-x2 ratchet bomb, x2 ensnaring bridge, x1 staff of nin, x1 steel hellkite; out- 1 forgemaster, 1 platinum angel, 1 chalice, 1 crucible, 1 coercive portal, 1 sundering titan
I would not have taken out the Forgemaster or the Chalice. Putting in the Ensnaring Bridge is questionable because it probably stop you more than the elves player, since they can either a) go under the bridge, or b) blow it up when it is convenient for them.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
@ZEROorDIE: pretty good performance especially after almost getting 0-3 dropped. :eek:
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Thanks for the tips. My thought process on keeping the angel was defense against clique, TNN, entreat, while I get very little value from wurmcoil if it gets countered/terminus/swords to plowshares.
Do you ever think its right to board out forgemasters in any quantity?
And tips against elves? Historically I've done pretty well against miracles, bit I almost always struggle against elves.
I'm still debating the MD crucible. It wasn't really that relevant, I was expecting a lot more wastelands than I saw and I only play two in my deck. I also can't say enough about coercive portal. Every time I've resolved that card, it marked the beginning of the end for my opponent and I can usually get it down a turn or two faster than staff of nin.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ZEROorDIE
Do you ever think its right to board out forgemasters in any quantity?
And tips against elves?
I'm still debating the MD crucible. It wasn't really that relevant,.
1. I never drop below 3, but there's games where i'll shave 1 just when we want a piece of faster hate.
2. Multiple chalice/ trinisphere, and SB grafdigger's cage if you have it, they can't Green sun or natty order through that. They are a deck that entirely built on board position. If you can land a contaigon engine, they're fucked. It used to be a favorable match-up. It's not the case anymore. They have access to a lot of stuff.
3. I wouldn't MD crucible, because wasteland is getting worse and worse at the moment. (thanks delve spells).
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Quote:
Thanks for the tips. My thought process on keeping the angel was defense against clique, TNN, entreat, while I get very little value from wurmcoil if it gets countered/terminus/swords to plowshares.
What I like about facing Miracles is that you can have a very slow start and not have to worry about dying, and you can build up your manabase at ease.Resolving a planeswalker or a Staff takes you very far, and creatures are generally low impact (Revokers, and even Lodestone sometimes)
Quote:
Do you ever think its right to board out forgemasters in any quantity?
Against decks that don't have any solution to Forgemaster combo, No.
Against decks with solutions to Forgemaster (Stifle, Null Rod, Revoker), take him out as long as you replace him with stuff that's not vulnerable to the same things. For the most part, you'll end up only taking one out.
Quote:
And tips against elves? Historically I've done pretty well against miracles, bit I almost always struggle against elves.
I feel like Elves is our worst match up. Tips? Its combo vs combo. Win the die roll, keep a hand that can Chalice/Trinisphere early (Chalice preferred) and combo off before GSZ/Decay can get you.
Quote:
I'm still debating the MD crucible. It wasn't really that relevant, I was expecting a lot more wastelands than I saw and I only play two in my deck. I also can't say enough about coercive portal. Every time I've resolved that card, it marked the beginning of the end for my opponent and I can usually get it down a turn or two faster than staff of nin.
Yeah, 1 Crucible SB is good enough.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
Mostly agree with the points above.
Quote:
My thought process on keeping the angel was defense against clique, TNN, entreat, while I get very little value from wurmcoil if it gets countered/terminus/swords to plowshares.
Why not Steel Hellkite? It can block against an entreat (it can actually force your opponent to double block with entreat too) and can solve TNN. Though, I don't think Miracles plays with TNN. I don't like Angel in this match-up because it really just reads as a 4/4 Flyer for 7CMC.
Quote:
Do you ever think its right to board out forgemasters in any quantity?
The only time I really bring out Forgemaster is against RUG Delver, and some Stoneblade builds, because of Stifle.
Quote:
And tips against elves? Historically I've done pretty well against miracles, bit I almost always struggle against elves.
Aside from what's stated above, against creature heavy metas like when both Elves and DnT were DTB (pre-Treasure Cruise), I would have 4 Revokers, 2 Jittes, and 2 Torpor Orbs in my SB. Revoker pretty much names Symbiote 80% of the time, Heritage Druid 20% of the time. Jitte can be worn by an early Metalworker, Revoker, Golem, or Mishra's Factory and slowly eat away elves. I normally save a couple counters because Symbiote and Visionary are public enemy #1. I even like Jitte in the Infect match-up. Torpor Orbs pretty much prevents Elves doing anything truly relevant until they find an Abrupt Decay. Pre-TC, in my MUD Stompy build, I would have 4 Vault of Wispers and 2 Urborg (which goes nice with Ancient Tomb) for two MD The Abyss and two SB Engineered Plague. In my Daretti build, I have to 3 Whipflare in my SB. Back when DnT and Stoneblade was all the rage, I would play with two copies of Phyrexian Metamorph (MD) to copy Stoneforge so I can fetch for my own Batterskull (MD), Jitte (SB), SoFaI (SB), and SoLaS (SB).
Quote:
I'm still debating the MD crucible. It wasn't really that relevant, I was expecting a lot more wastelands than I saw and I only play two in my deck. I also can't say enough about coercive portal. Every time I've resolved that card, it marked the beginning of the end for my opponent and I can usually get it down a turn or two faster than staff of nin.
I really like Crucible in this meta because Wasteland lock is pretty strong despite of the Delve mechanic. Your deck don't take full advantage of Crucible though, so it is probably better for you to put it in the SB.
Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)
I'm finding wasteland to be such a double edge sword right now. I'm not running the full 4 for that reason. It's an extremely clutch land when it needs to be. But my meta has so much lands and Omni-Tell. It's almost a dead draw.
