So... how are we going to resolve the typo of me putting the uncastable deathbloom thallid instead of deathspore thallid? man i wrote it out correctly in my spreadsheet and everything.
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So... how are we going to resolve the typo of me putting the uncastable deathbloom thallid instead of deathspore thallid? man i wrote it out correctly in my spreadsheet and everything.
Assuming no change, I get 2 points, losing to everything except H.
For me, I do not see the harm in shifting, it is obviously a typo and it is uncastable. If it was a less good but legit creature it may be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
And if legionnaire is the first play after channel? No force, legionnaire race from 16 life. Force, and eldrazi takes it. So fow channel and enchant land for the draw, 4-1?Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I thought it was a neat tech with innocent blood in cases where you'd have to play a creature before casting innocent blood to win :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
I don't care.
1. Asthereal (TO): Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
The "I copied your deck" mirror. Whoever is on the draw FoWs the first threat to avoid losing the race, forcing a draw. DD
2-2
2. Reeplcheep: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathbloom Thallid, innocent blood
As submitted, I can FoW Innocent Blood and race Factory with my 3 power threat. WW
If updated to the castable Thallid, I have to Force that threat for many reasons, and I can't beat Innocent Blood + Factory. LL
6-0 or 0-6
3. dte: Plains, Cenn's Tactician, Gideon's Lawkeeper, deftblade elite
Agree with dte's math, WL
3-3
4. alphastryk: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
This is me
5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Wildfield Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
FoW on Borderpost wins it. WW
6-0
6. H: Mountain, Reckless Waif, Forge Devil, Death Spark
I don't see a way for me to win outright, but I can force a draw by FoWing the Waif and turning it into a staring contest (Forge Devil shoots itself if there is no other option). DD
2-2
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
If you go for Channel, I let it resolve and FoW the Eldrazi, leaving me ahead on life in the 3/1 race. If you opt to lead with turn 2 Legionnaire instead paying the 2 life, it becomes a pure race as I always need to hold FoW until your life is low enough you can't Channel into the Eldrazi. Your 3/1 would attack on your turn 3, and my 3/1 would attack on my turn 4. Those are the same "kill turn" however because you start at 18 life which is one less attack, but somewhere in there I should always be able to change gears and play a second threat to turn the race farther in my favor. WW
6-0
8. silkster: Forest, Lush Growth, Granger Guildmage, Utopia Mycon
Don't see a path through here, as I can't beat either Lush Growth or Granger Guildmage + Mycon (for slow red mana), and I can't FoW both. LL
0-6
9. Tylert: Island, Aether vial, Qasali pridemage, Faceless butcher
FoW on Vial wins it. WW
6-0
10. maxx!: Keldon Megaliths, Gruul Turf, Sparksmith, Tin Street Hooligan
I don't see a way to win here - I can't interact with Megaliths and it kills all my threats eventually no matter what I do. LL
0-6
11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Phantasmal Terrain, Infiltrator il-Kor
FoW "mirror". Don't see a way this isn't DD in any permutation.
2-2
Total: 33 or 27
Ha, everyone can see I hardly thought my list out, I didn't even realize Waif was on uncommon. I'll try to get my analysis written up later today though.
Good point. I lose that race by 1 lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by dte
Channel Legionnaire / S2
17 / S1
14 / 13
...
2 / 1
dead
But if I FoW the Channel pitching Terrain, I can race! Stalling Legionnaire by 1 turn is enough.
Channel eats FoW / S2 (F=19)
Legionnaire / S1 (G=18)
16 / 15
13 / 12
...
4 / 3
1 / 0
Win!
I think that means he has to lead on Legionnaire first without Channel. I can't race that, so I have to Force it. Then I need to Terrain his land to stop Channel.
WD 4-1
Yeah, I also wondered if it was meant to be tech with Innocent Blood. Deathbloom Thallid is much better than Deathspore Thallid vs Channel Eldrazi, for example. I thought maybe he forgot it was 3cc, or the land was supposed to be a double land like Ancient Tomb, changed to Factory at the last minute forgetting about the mana implications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
This is a weird situation where the typo is another Peasant-viable card with different abilities. In the past it was a functional equivalent (wrong 0cc dork) or just a typo that linked to no card at all, so it made no difference for how the deck operated.
I'm fine with giving him the switch this time. But going forward I wonder what the rule should be. What should we do when the typo is a different, legal Magic card? Oops I typed Chain Lightning but obviously meant Lightning Bolt because it's an instant!
We can all avoid these glitches by just checking the card tags in the message to Asthereal after hitting "send". It takes 5 seconds. I've had to catch myself in a few errors. I've caught typos that linked to no card. I've caught illegal pauper decks with an uncommon (one had Reckless Waif!). Just check your card tags and then resubmit if it came out wrong. Remember to message Asthereal directly (Forward or new message) and do not hit Reply!!
What if he plays Legionnaire first OTP? When do you deploy the 2nd one?Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
T1 Woodlot / Skerry
T2 Legionnaire (G=18) / suspend 2
T3 Attack 17 / suspend 1
T4 Attack 14 / Attack 15, suspend 2
T5 Attack 11, Channel Eldrazi (G=7) / Attack 4, suspend 1
T6 Attack for exactly 11 lethal
Suspending it on turn 4 is too soon as you lose to Channel.
T4 Attack 14 / Attack 15
T5 Attack 11 / Attack 12, suspend 2
T6 Attack 8, Channel Eldrazi (G=4) / Attack 1, suspend 1
T7 Attack lethal
Turn 5 is too soon.
T5 Attack 11 / Attack 12
T6 Attack 8 / Attack 9, suspend 2
T7 Attack 5, can't Channel / Attack 6, suspend 1
T8 Attack 2 / hit for exactly 6
That's close. You just barely have one turn to get there fast enough.
I'm surprised this version does better against Channel. I went for Terrain over the 2nd threat because I thought it would be better against combos lol.
maxx!: Keldon Megaliths, Gruul Turf, Sparksmith, Tin Street Hooligan
1. Asthereal (TO): Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
You can't stop Megaliths. 6-0
2. Reeplcheep: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathbloom Thallid, innocent blood
I'll just assume this is Deathspore Thallid for now. My lands are slow, so you have a little time. I'll look at me OTD first.
R: Swamp
m: Megaliths
R: Factory, Thallid
m: Turf
R: 1 spore, attack (m=17)
m: Sparksmith, Megaliths
Now you have some options, but I don't think any of them win. You can Innocent Blood now and sac your Thallid, but then my Hooligan trades with Factory if you ever attack and I just kill you slowly with Megaliths. You can Innocent Blood and sac Factory instead, but then once Megaliths gets online it kills your Thallid and any Saprolings and eventually you. If you don't play Innocent Blood now, I Sparksmith your Thallid and play Hooligan, and then we're back to the first scenario where Megaliths gets me there while Hooligan waits to block Factory. 6-0
3. dte: Plains, Cenn's Tactician, Gideon's Lawkeeper, deftblade elite
Deftblade Elite is sick tech. Once Sparksmith is dead, I can't kill CT and I certainly can't race it. 0-6
4. alphastryk: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
Megaliths gets me there every time. 6-0
5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Wildfield Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
You can Sculler before I play any spells, but it's not enough. If you take Sparksmith, Hooligan comes down and shatters Sculler on ETB. If you take Hooligan, Sparksmith and Megaliths combine to kill Sculler. After that, it's Putrid Leech vs my team. From my side, I just attack with Hooligan every turn. If you block, I'm happy to trade, and if you try to activate Leech then I can Smith it in response. If you try to attack back, I can block with Sparksmith, activate Sparksmith, and activate Megaliths to put 4 damage on the Leech. 6-0
6. H: Mountain, Reckless Waif, Forge Devil, Death Spark
I don't think I can beat this. Waif will always flip, and I can't kill it without one of my Goblins, which both die to your other 2 cards. 0-6
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
This deck is solid. I don't even come close here. 0-6
8. silkster: Forest, Lush Growth, Granger Guildmage, Utopia Mycon
Granger Guildmage makes this tricky. You can Lush one of my lands to shut off Megaliths, but then you can't activate Guildmage for a long time. Double checking the math there (me OTP):
m: Megaliths
s: Forest, Mycon
m: Turf
s: Lush, 1 spore
m: Megaliths
s: Guildmage, 2 spores
m: Sparksmith
s: 3 spores, make R and kill Smith
You're just fast enough and my lands are just slow enough. And here I thought I was cleverly playing around Lush Growth. Nice deck. 0-6
9. Tylert: Island, Aether vial, Qasali pridemage, Faceless butcher
OTP Hooligan shatters your Vial before you can do anything with it. OTD you can land Pridemage, but Sparksmith shoots him down. 6-0
10. maxx!: Keldon Megaliths, Gruul Turf, Sparksmith, Tin Street Hooligan
This is me :]
11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Phantasmal Terrain, Infiltrator il-Kor
I couldn't beat the Lush Growth deck, but I can beat the Phantasmal Terrain deck. You can shut off Megaliths, but I can still play both my Goblins. If you FoW Sparksmith, I either kill your il-Kor with Megaliths, or just cast Tin Street and attack you 10 times (depending on what you pitch to FoW). 6-0
6+6+0+6+6+0+0+0+6+6 = 36
Happy to see so many FoW/il-Kor decks and at least one Vial deck. Disappointed that I couldn't beat the Lush Growth deck (Utopia Mycon was not on my radar).
I didn't do the math and didn't realize it was quite that close!Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I think the extra threat is only good vs this exact Channel list (which I guess is the most common list), as you need to race an opposing 3 power threat while holding FoW to fend off the Eldrazi. Intuitively, having the land destruction definitely seems like it would work our better against this type of combo though.
I of course did not have time to check the decks...Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Most seem cool with the switch, and so am I.
Anyone opposed?
Fine with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
No problem here, not like any potential points would do me much good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Me: silkster: Forest, Lush Growth, Granger Guildmage, Utopia Mycon
1. Asthereal (TO): Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
In my mind, this is the strongest deck. It shuts down all of the non-sense, and it even beats many 3-spell decks because of its 10-turn clock, which is faster than two 1-mana 1/1's. This is the deck that I warped my deck around beating, the one that I thought FTW was talking about above.
6 points
2. Reeplcheep: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathbloom Thallid, innocent blood
I'm sure when I check the other replies that this was supposed to be Deathspore Thallid, a card I almost played this week. As is, I get out of control first. I'll revisit if need be.
6 points
I think it'sDDWDWW if the change is allowed. Dang, it's complicated. I think it comes down to the fact that the caster of Innocent Blood has to make the choice first.
3. dte: Plains, Cenn's Tactician, Gideon's Lawkeeper, deftblade elite
Cenn's Tactician (along with Chronomaton and Vial) are my accepted weaknesses for beating what I thought of as the top decks.
0 points
4. alphastryk: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
6 points
5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Wildfield Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
Putrid Leech is too big too fast. I think this is bad. Maybe you thought my Guildmage taps, but it does 1 damage and has a useless white ability.
I also thought Force would scare away Borderposts.
0 points Inconsistency, at the moment. I don't think careful scrutiny will be on my side, but I'm wrong all the time, so here's hoping!
6. H: Mountain, Reckless Waif, Forge Devil, Death Spark
Yikes. Things are not looking good for our hero. I expected more Swamp decks and fewer Mountain decks. I think the instant speed of Death Spark meaning that I need 3 blockers to kill the Waif buys you enough time to win, though I'm not completely sure.
0 points
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
Lush Growth putting in work.
6 points
9. Tylert: Island, Aether vial, Qasali pridemage, Faceless butcher
I figured the strength of Force of Will would sufficiently disincentivize Vial.
0 points
10. maxx!: Keldon Megaliths, Gruul Turf, Sparksmith, Tin Street Hooligan
We both race to turn 4 to activate our pingers. I can get mine active a turn earlier by playing Lush Growth on my own land, but then I lose to the Megaliths. WL
I thought that I had to Lush the Megaliths, not realizing that I can Lush the Turf to take you off of using Megaliths too.
6 points
11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Phantasmal Terrain, Infiltrator il-Kor
An interesting twist! On my play, I try to cast a creature. If you counter, you get locked out and lose to the other. My turn-2 Lush Growth reduces you to one card, which isn't enough.
On your play, if I lead on a creature, you let it go then lock me and race. So I lead on Growth, it gets countered and you lock me out for a draw.WD
4 points
34 points
I figured I'd take one or two Cenn's or Chrono losses, but didn't expect Vial to show up again.
Except that we didn't allow the change of wrong 0cc dork. But I didn't think that was a great precedent. And I just checked, and it was against Reeplcheep too. :frown: That one was rough. I don't think Reeplcheep is gaining anything from these mistakes, so we should change it. The really interesting thing would be if there was a third card called like Deadbloom Thallid, and then someone could argue after the fact about whether they wanted the Deathspore or the Deadbloom. Honestly, I think I'd be more impressed than mad if someone found a way to try that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Stupid messaging system. :tongue: Yeah, I always preview my message and hover over the cards as a final check.Quote:
e can all avoid these glitches by just checking the card tags in the message to Asthereal after hitting "send". It takes 5 seconds. I've had to catch myself in a few errors. I've caught typos that linked to no card. I've caught illegal pauper decks with an uncommon (one had Reckless Waif!). Just check your card tags and then resubmit if it came out wrong. Remember to message Asthereal directly (Forward or new message) and do not hit Reply!!
Math against Deathspore Thallid with the Thallid on the play:
R: MF (playing the swamp gets locked out and loses)
S: Forest, Granger Guildmage
Casting Innocent Blood will get locked out and Mycon>Factory. Doing nothing gains no ground and will lose to the Mycon, so:
R: Swamp, Deathspore Thallid
S: Forest, Utopia Mycon
My game plan is now to Lush Growth my own Forest and shoot the Thallid before it can germinate. Reeplcheep can activate Factory then cast Innocent Blood. But R makes the choice first. If Thallid gets sacked, I sack the Guildmage and Mycon takes over. If Factory gets sacked, I sack the Mycon, will ping the Thallid just in time, and then attack 20 times.
Re: 4 Card Blind
I thought fow, infect, vial & eldrazi were the decks to beat, so brought hard removal and uncounterable threat. Seems like everyone went from hexproof to extra bodies though :(. Assuming deathspore thallid:
2. Reeplcheep: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, DeathSPORE Thallid, innocent blood
1. Asthereal (TO): Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
You can't fowworkshopfactory, and the rest trades. 6-0 for 6/6
3. dte: Plains, Cenn's Tactician (CT), Gideon's Lawkeeper (GL), deftblade elite (DE)
You trade lawkeeper with blood, deftblade with thallid, & cenn beatsworkshopfactory. 0-6 for 6/12
4. alphastryk: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
See above. 6-0. for 12/18
5. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Wildfield Borderpost, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
You can't stop thallid, and I eventually kill everything. 6-0. 18/24
6. H: Mountain, Reckless Waif, Forge Devil, Death Spark
You have to commit to the board first because ofworkshopfactory. Devil trades with blood, spark trades with thallid and then the werewolf & the assembly-worker stare at each other.2-2. 20/30
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
Your extra blocker instead of the protection spells jukes my sac tech. If you let me double block legionnaire or get to three counters I can clear the way for innocent blood.
OTD
land, land (20/20)
channel + both dudes, thallid. (8/20)
attack, counter (8/9)
attack with just eldrazi, counter (1/20)
lose
OTP
land, land (20/20)
thallid, channel + both dudes. (20/8)
counter, attack with just eldrazi (8/12)
counter, attack with just eldrazi (8/4)
counter, ping, activate workshop using itself, blood, win with the thallid.
To prevent this, you must attack to trade on t3, [strike]which leaves me with nothing when I blood[strike] but I still have time to wait until t5 to blood and have something left over
4-1 for 24/363-3 for 23-36
8. silkster: Forest, Lush Growth, Granger Guildmage, Utopia Mycon
I thought vial would discourage lush growth. My pinger kills your guildmage and your token producer if you lush growth me, so you are forced into lush growth-ing yourself. Workshop forces you to commit mycon to the board to be sacc'd, and then granger and workshop trade. 2-2. 26/42
Edit: Your analysis is correct. APNAP strikes again. 0-6. Also what is the strikethrough syntax?
9. Tylert: Island, Aether vial, Qasali pridemage, Faceless butcher
Oof. Quasali being cheaper than butcher means that I can't get my thallid back. Butcher & workshop stare at each other. 2-2. 25/48
10. maxx!: Keldon Megaliths, Gruul Turf, Sparksmith, Tin Street Hooligan
Your pinger is active on t4 and mine is active on t5 :(. 0-6. 25/54
11. FTW: Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Phantasmal Terrain, Infiltrator il-Kor
Smart variant on the deck. You can't win, but you can answer both my threats. So much for workshop dodging counters. 2-2. 27/60
Interesting round. both FTW,Tylert & Goblinsmasher played variants on the level 0 decks that juked my plans. Respecting infect lost me a lot of points against all the people who were greedy with no t1 interaction.
28/60 points. Or 2/60 I guess.
Lots of sloppyness. 27-60
Idiot me missed the "just cast Putrid Leech and not care about Lush Growth" line.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
You mean Mishra's Factory not Mishra's Workshop. Careful!
I thought Putrid Leech might be too fast, but I was forgetting that Factory blocks as a 3/3.
It's funny that you thought Vial made Lush Growth unplayable. I thought the real threat was FoW, and FoW makes Vial unplayable.
Strikethrough syntax is just "strike", not "strikethrough". I got there eventually.
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Porcelain Legionnaire
Your extra blocker instead of the protection spells jukes my sac tech. If you let me double block legionnaire or get to three counters I can clear the way for innocent blood.
Your analysis seems to give you DL for 1 point, but I think you're actually WL. After putting a 1/1 and a 3/3 in front of the Legionnaire, you can either wait for a third counter before casting Innocent Blood (so you'll have a 1/1 left over) or you can cast Innocent Blood while your Factory hides among your lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Alternately, you can find the BB Code tags here.
Yeah, we were on the same page. When you said you played around the two big answers instead of playing something flashy, I knew you were on an anti-FoW deck and that I would have been better off with my Cenn's Tactician deck instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by silkster
You counted this as 4-1, but your analysis says DL which is 1-4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
Silkster has this as 3-3, so let's find out OTP.
T1 Factory / Woodlot
T2 Swamp. Thallid / Channel. Legionnaire + Eldrazi [G=8]
T3 1 spore, pass / Attack with both. Legionnaire gets double blocked, killing 3/3 Factory [R=12]
T4 2 spore, attack / Attack with Eldrazi [R=4, G=7]
T5 3 spore. Saproling. Innocent Blood, sacrificing the Saproling and killing Eldrazi.
Win.