[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by Mantis

That is just not true, they both have their pro's and cons.

Goblin Settler can be Vialed in which is huge. Ruinblaster on the other hand allows you to apply a lot more pressure and thus take more advantage of the tempo generated by destroying an opposing land.

Warren Instigator hasn't been able to convince me just yet.

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Saying the increased 'pressure' generated by a 2/1 utility for 2RR which cannot be vialed in for it's effect over a 1/1 utility for 3R which also hits basics is like saying boggart harbinger can generate more tempo than goblin matron, presuming the card disadvantage is as negligible as the many drawbacks of ruinblaster. With the new UG fetchland, thresh decks will likely be able to include basic forests to play their threats and basic mountians to play their sweepers, thus furthering the gap between ruinblaster and settler.

@ 'gator: test the card before posting, or explain, in your experience testing, why 'gator does not warrant inclusion.

Lightning crafter has not been discussed at length in this thread. Daze, terminate, thoughtseize, and earwig squad all have. I'm not attacking people for thinking outside the box, only suggest they read the thread and save flame wars and repeating posts already covered.

I'd say there's no problem with discussing those cards if they come right alongside test results and improved matchups because of the inclusion of those cards.

I haven't been extremely impressed by Warren Instigator either, it's quite simply another lackey effect it's not going to revolutionize the deck but it's easily the best 2 drop alongside piley.

A 2/1 with haste is a much more significant threat than a 1/1 and frankly I wasn't planning on boarding either Ruinblast or Settlers against Threshold anyway. If a deck such as 43 lands starts seeing more play I can definately see Ruinblaster or Settlers being played but not right now, so we best save this discussion for a more relevant time. If you think Harbinger is to Matron what Ruinblaster is to Settlers I can assure you that view is very skewed and incorrect. They are actually fairly close in powerlevel with Ruinblaster being better in some situations and Settlers in others. If you need examples feel free to ask.

Perhaps you should pose specific question to garner some attention for Lightning Crafter. I'll start one for everybody to reply: Does Lightning Crafter shore up any specific weaknesses Goblins has right now?
Is Lightning Crafter too narrow or not?

As for Gator I will test it more once it gets released, as there is still tournament for me next week so the attention goes towards that tourney first.

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Originally Posted by Mantis

Does Lightning Crafter shore up any specific weaknesses Goblins has right now?
Is Lightning Crafter too narrow or not?

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Decks with Moat and/or propaganda effects, tribal decks with jitte in the MD or SB, the mirror.

As a tutorable 3/3 that bolts, I would say he's less narrow than Wort, Boggart Auntie or sharpshooter, both of which have been in the MD of decks with proven tournament sucess (not to say the slots were correct or justified, but clearly the deckbuilders possessed some metagame judgment, as they managed to top8). Assuming he champions a matron or a ringleader, (I think this is fair, as he is usually tutored by matron) he is still CA even if he's removed before you untap with him, and accomplishes two goals goblins wants to achieve: sending 3 to the dome every turn, or removing blockers for drivers to swing through. (realistically, even goyf with the help of incinerator)

How do you guys think that the new fetch lands will change the strength of Wasteland in the Goblin deck? Will wasteland become less important once decks will be able to fetch the correct basic lands more easily? Will Rishadan Port become more important than Wasteland?

I think that Port will not became more important that Wasteland, card that we should probably keep using.
People will have to fetch for duals still. You can´t think that Wastes will have no targets. Off the DTB we have decks playing Wastelands, Factories, Mutavaults...

Goblin is a good exemple of what may happen to other decks.
We have always had Rg and Rb Fetchs, but I rarely see a list packing Forests or Swamps.

I want to be the first to say fuck the new goblins! They suck! The deck kicks ass just fine right now with Chieftain being the newest beat stick in the deck. It's good. A 2 drop 1/1 isn't, the 2/1 sucks to. Fuck Port to. The deck isn't meant to be cute, you're suppose to blow up lands and creatures and bash face.

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Originally Posted by true story

I want to be the first to say fuck the new goblins! They suck! The deck kicks ass just fine right now with Chieftain being the newest beat stick in the deck. It's good. A 2 drop 1/1 isn't, the 2/1 sucks to. Fuck Port to. The deck isn't meant to be cute, you're suppose to blow up lands and creatures and bash face.

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As someone who doesn't even play this deck, I can tell you, "Yes, Instigator is good." He's not quite the 'New Jesus Goblin,' but he's pretty damn close.

Rishadan Port is also good in the right list, although I think Wasteland continues to be the better card.

On the other hand, I think you're right about the 2/1 kicker dude, I wouldn't want to run him myself.

Anyhow, from a weed powered Magic player to a rum powered Magic player, there's my two cents, USDA.

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Originally Posted by FoulQ

GOD FUCK WILL YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT TERMINATE?!!? Although I agree that rancor is not good enough and makes lackey/instigator too important. But rancor has been discussed a million times. Just like freaking terminate.

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No I won't shut the fuck up about Terminate. Fuck you asshole. My name is Brian Thomas if you ever see me at an event say something! I've been playing Goblins for 16 years(even when they sucked) I know what I'm talking about unlike 99% of the retards on here. I know some people don't like it, fine whatever it's good anyway. I was just pointing out that Terminate is better than Rancor and here you go running your mouth. Can you at least agree with me on that? Sorry if playing good cards offends the gay ass Goblin gods.

Be careful not to sound too intelligent and well-spoken there, True Story, you'll make all the other forum-goers jealous of your eloquence.

At least you're not some kind of barely coherent jackass making unverifiable claims and stating that we can rely on him as an expert while managing to simultaneously provide compelling evidence to the contrary.

For the record, Warren Instigator is, at the very least, comparable to Mogg War Marshal. The effective cost to power ratio is the same (Double Strike versus actually getting 2 power worth of dudes in play). It has an obviously powerful effect, and it has more subtle effects, like sucking up removal that might otherwise be spent on something like a Piledriver or Chieftain, or providing redundancy for removed Lackeys. It makes opposing guys want to stay home, just to stop him from dropping 2 Goblins. Having Double Strike means it doesn't trade with 1/1s like Lackey. In short, the card has enough potential to merit debate, a process which, contrary to (apparently) popular opinion, does not include wandering in and making wild-ass generalizations with no evidence in support of one's poorly stated point.

Fortunately, we can rely on you to avoid that particular pitfall, eh?

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Originally Posted by true story

I know what I'm talking about unlike 99% of the retards on here. .

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You said what I was thinking. Awesome. I wish there was an invite only forum where idiots contemplating Daze and throwing the W splash out the window weren't allowed! :laugh:

Dude, chill. True story.

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Originally Posted by Jayzonious

You said what I was thinking. Awesome. I wish there was an invite only forum where idiots contemplating Daze and throwing the W splash out the window weren't allowed! :laugh:

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It would be nice. Have you read the Natural Order threads? :really:

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Originally Posted by Media314r8

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Originally Posted by Mantis

Does Lightning Crafter shore up any specific weaknesses Goblins has right now?
Is Lightning Crafter too narrow or not?

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Decks with Moat and/or propaganda effects, tribal decks with jitte in the MD or SB, the mirror.

As a tutorable 3/3 that bolts, I would say he's less narrow than Wort, Boggart Auntie or sharpshooter, both of which have been in the MD of decks with proven tournament sucess (not to say the slots were correct or justified, but clearly the deckbuilders possessed some metagame judgment, as they managed to top8). Assuming he champions a matron or a ringleader, (I think this is fair, as he is usually tutored by matron) he is still CA even if he's removed before you untap with him, and accomplishes two goals goblins wants to achieve: sending 3 to the dome every turn, or removing blockers for drivers to swing through. (realistically, even goyf with the help of incinerator)

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The card is real good versus Tribal and general agro and as mentioned can also be an insurance play against sweepers in control by Championing a card advantage Goblin. It's got a pretty big target on it's head, but at the same time that's not a bad thing; opposing decks have to answer it promptly, and when they do you get a 'comes into play' ability in return.

I agree with Media, I like him better than Wort or Sharpshooter in the current environment (in New England anyway; lots of Red based agro, lots of Canadian Thresh and fair bit of UW control).

I'm running one in the Sideboard at the moment, but it's one of the few singleton/tech Goblin cards I'd think about trying to push into the Main.

Here are all the posts you posted about terminate:

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Originally Posted by true story

I'm also running 3 Terminate and 3 Weirdings md. Terminates are always fucking awesome, except when you ringleader into them, they kill Goyfs, Dreadnaughts, Tombstalkers.... You get the picture. Has anyone else tried this? Any thoughts or input people?

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Originally Posted by true story

If I go RG I lose Weirding and Terminate, Gempalm is a poor substitute as it doesn't kill Goyf, Doran, Tomstalker, Naught...

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Originally Posted by true story

Anyone playing black splash should be playing Terminate, it is amazing. Yes I realize it's not a Goblin and Ringleadering into it sucks, so what? Turn 1 Lackey, Turn 2 Terminate whatever they got as a blocker, good game. It's better than Gempalm, Fanatic, Stingscourger, maybe better than Weirdings. True story.

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Originally Posted by true story

Terminate AND Weirdings run shit. True story. Until you at least try it don't act like I'm some dumb fuck and I don't know what I'm saying.

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Originally Posted by true story

I hardly think 3 of each qualifies as a shit ton of removal. I don't play Gempalm cause he doesn't kill big dudes and he sucks when no other Goblins are in play. Besides can you ever have to much removal? Killing shit and bashing face is how I've played every goblin deck I've had for the past 16 years... Fuck it. I was just trying to tell people how good Terminate has been to me, but since you all think I'm retarded fuck off.

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Originally Posted by true story

Terminate + Weirding = The shit. True story. Why maindeck Relic to "deal with Goyf" when you can off him instead?

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Originally Posted by true story

Terminate is how you deal with dreadnaught, true story.

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Originally Posted by true story

I wouldn't suggest splashing a color just for 1 card, but if you're already in black you should TRY it. I run 3 Terminate 3 Weirding, I can't give you match by match results. I just know it's awesome and the couple of people I let borrow the deck were amazed at how good Terminate was. I know it's not a Goblin, who cares? Vial isn't a Goblin it's still awesome. True story.

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Originally Posted by true story

At least you tried running Terminate, alot of people just say fuck it. To be honest when I put them in the deck I was playing against Tombstone alot and Gempalm rarely killed Goyf or Tombstalker, I switched to Terminate and they have yet to suck, even on the rare occasion I flip 1 with Ringleader.

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Originally Posted by true story

You forgot Terminate

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Originally Posted by true story

Gempalm doesn't always kill enough shit for me, I love Terminate. I know it's not a Goblin but it's awesome just the same. I run 3 and 3 Weirdings and it works wonders.

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So I think that is enough about terminate. I don't think you are necessarily a bad or good player, obviously I can't know that from here, that isn't what I'm claiming, but I think we got the point that you like terminate. I agree that rancor is bad.

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Originally Posted by true story

No I won't shut the fuck up about Terminate. Fuck you asshole. My name is Brian Thomas if you ever see me at an event say something!

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Oh look, an Internet tough guy. /yawn

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I've been playing Goblins for 16 years(even when they sucked) I know what I'm talking about unlike 99% of the retards on here. I know some people don't like it, fine whatever it's good anyway. I was just pointing out that Terminate is better than Rancor and here you go running your mouth. Can you at least agree with me on that? Sorry if playing good cards offends the gay ass Goblin gods.

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Adding obscenities doesn't make your point any more valid. If anything, it just annoys people and makes them ignore you.

You could try Skarrg, the Rage Pits instead of Rancor. Goblin Burrows isn't horrible either. You're gonna want to remove Port + Waste though. Looks like some lists already have.

If I had to choose a non goblin removal spell than it would be Swords to Plowshares or Path to Exile. They only cost one mana and take care of a creature/man land for good (no Reanimate, Volraths Stronghold or other stuff).

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Oh look, an Internet tough guy. /yawn

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Far from that, ask me about it in person.

@ FoulQ- I understand that people may be tired of hearing about Terminate. I don't really care honestly. Some one said what about Rancor? I was pointing out that Terminate is better. FoulQ said shut the fuck up about Terminate, but I'm the asshole for swearing a little bit?

@ Alecthar- Sarcasm is my second language, Fuck you. I might swear alot but I know what I'm talking about. Warren Intisgator may be ok, but I don't think he's going to make the deck any better. I think I'd stick with War Marshall over him.

I can't decide if this guy's a clever troll or not. The lack of spelling skills doesn't help.

Moving right along, against decks with Propaganda or Moat effects, I thought that's why we have SGC and Sharpshooter. You can pretty much machine gun them to death. SGC also helps for Incinerator's Goblin count.

The only non-Goblin removal spells I've ever considered:
STP
Pyrokenisis
Lightning Bolt

I don't run STP because I don't like the white splash. I don't run Bolt because it doesn't do enough. I sometimes run PK in the board because Elves is pretty popular here and being able to clear off multiple guys balances out the card disadvantage.

Right now in my Goblins build, I run 4 Weirdings, 3 Incinerator, 1 Sharpshooter. Stingscourger is epic against Tombstalker, PD, and even Goyf, so he may see some play as my meta develops more.