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How the new rule interact with Scorched Ruin or Lotus Vale erratas?
If the "would" effect is overwrite, could be interesting to run one or two of those... 7 mana on turn three with Scorched Ruin and tomb/city... make the opponent think twice before remove the moon effect, if they don't have a wasteland
Concerning Depths and moon effect: the fact that Depths comes into play with counters isn't a triggered ability. So it does get the counters and is a non basic mountain with 10 ice counters. For the same reason Cavern of souls entering the Battlefield is a mountain with a chosen creature type chosen for it.
I had the same situation in tournament and the head judge answered like this.
On a different matter: I don't know if the subject was already discussed but what about Torpor Orb against DnT? It gets rid of all the EtB effect. Looks pretty strong to me but is it relevent to add it to the SB just for one deck?
There was a rules change yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arikrat
They enter and you don't have to sacrifice. Seems more interesting than the depth plan which seems too convoluted... Also being able to sac a traitors could make it not as terrible MAYBE? Especially if you sorcerous spyglass wasteland.Quote:
Originally Posted by procobrito
Thoughts on my Moggcatcher list? Sharpshooter is in the main because of an uptick (that I see) in Pyromancer and X/1s overall. Hasn't been performing well though so I'll probably cut it/move it to the board. Fiery Confluence is a hell of a card, but the board wiping capabilities are pretty ehhhh because it does kill your own gobbos. Chandra isn't in the list because Moggcatcher is the value/win engine. I mainly play Eldrazi 10-post so I'm new to the archetype, just wanted to get some suggestions for my current list.Quote:
// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Chrome Mox
// 25 Creature
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Moggcatcher
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Settler
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Murderous Redcap
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
// 4 Enchantment
4 Blood Moon
// 20 Land
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain
// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
// 5 Creature
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
// 4 Enchantment
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
// 3 Sorcery
SB: 3 Fiery Confluence
List looks fine! How has Purphoros been?
Question for the group at large:
With the change in rules for Blood Moon and Magus, does it still make sense to run any Cavern of Souls in Mogg Stompy lists?
It's been pretty mediocre, it's there as another threat and honestly it can probably be cut for a goblin dude (Skirk Prospector + Sharpshooter). I did manage to wombo someone out though with moggcatcher into Siege-Gang +Kiki-Jiki.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
What's the reason for running Cavern? The deck seems to be pretty strong against control decks.
http://mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/captivatingcrew.html
No idea if the image worked (probably not). Captivating Crew from Ixalan:
http://mythicspoiler.com/ixa/cards/captivatingcrew.html
Zac posted about it on FB, and I figure I'd steal his thunder here. I think it's pretty beastly in non-Bridge builds, and what I want to do is to eat the creature after I swing with it. Thoughts on what might do that? Other than Diamond Valley (which is going to be a mountain anyway)? Seems like a good card to Show in, methinks.
You have identified the problem with your list, and the problem with all current goblin lists: No Chandra and No Fiery Confluence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbunny
What you have presented is a fine list if it were a year ago, but until they give a reason to run Moggcatcher, he's just been outclassed.
When we got Confluence, many saw it was incredibly strong, but it went against the current builds of the time. Now that Miracles is gone, the need for being incredibly threat dense disappeared. Combine the lack of need for a high volume of threats and the printing of resilient ones like Chandra and Hazoret, you can see why most people moved to just main decking ensnaring bridges and moved the philosophy of the deck from "Use lock pieces as disruption and win quickly" to "Pile on lock pieces and win eventually".
Additionally, with Miracles moving out, there are not too many swords to plowshares running around, but a higher volume of fatal pushes. This has lead Hazoret to mostly be unstoppable once she hits the field.
So it's not that your list is bad. Infact, it looks very good for what legacy was, but right now until more tools pop up, legacy has moved past the archtype.
While sacrificing things would be great, it seems like a bit to much work. Where I think this card could actually show up is in that sideboard spot that Ashen Rider sometimes occupies. It is a weaker effect than Ashen Rider, but the card is castable and allows proactive play. Additionally, when boarding out lock pieces for particular matchups, having your specialized hate as castable bodies is a great boon. I means that if you win into a matchup where all your hate is bad (Looking at you D&T), having cards to board in that atleast do something is worthwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger42
Cavern ensures play lines like sticking a magus or moggcatcher or Rabblemaster, thus negating counter magic. Have won games because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbunny
I also think you're missing out not playing chandra.
I think I half-agree with this. Wizards is always printing new Goblins, and Moggcatcher will catch a beastly one again one of these days; but still, is Moggcatcher outclassed? Probably not, not in the right build. I run 4x Imperial Recruiter right now, and if I can find the room I'll jam 1x Moggcatcher. It still is super powerful. But the philosophy of my deck is different - no Bridges, no Chandras, and it doesn't rely on Moggcatcher (which is easy to deal with) as its card advantage engine. I use a handful of equipment instead for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTurgeon
Hazoret has been a total beast with my equipment, basically as my version of True-Name Nemesis - except with haste. So I'm a little reluctant to swap out 3x Haz for Moggcatcher + 2 Silver Bullets. But it might be worth experimenting.
As for Stompy (creature-based Chalice Aggro) vs Stax (non-creature Chalice Control), some of the Stax lists here have put up something in the way of results. My Stompy list has too, and I won a Volc with it. I think if you face a lot of DnT (and you have Recruiters!) Stompy is actually slightly favored in that MU - Thalia is all of a Youthful Knight - whereas Stax totally struggles against it, she's a Sphere of Resistance. I'm a little salty about the new Magus + Dark Depths interaction, so I think I'm going to pilot something with Humility for a bit because that card just got a whole lot stronger.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...760970975.jpeg
transforms to:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/ix...itfire-bastion
Now that's something I'm looking forward!
While this is sweet, the flip side doesn't work under moon. It's basically just outpost seige most of the time in our deck. The one match up I can see wanting this in is vs grixis control and portent miracles. Having a land that deals 3 every turn seems like a nightmare for those decks to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by zangoasyl
When ixalan releases I plan on trying chandra, pyromaster as an extra draw engine. That card had a ton of utility in a lot of match ups but we haven't been able to run it before with 4 Chandra, ToD.
Well you don't have to transform if you plan to or if you already have sticked a moon!
And this draw engine synergies with bridge...
Isn't Bottled Cloister just better than this?
Cloister is more easily destroyed and don't flip to a land that bolt for 2R. The issue is that blood moon is one of the best cards of the deck and you can't really run both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
The thing about cloister is that it's a big risk against some decks after board, where this would likely be a board card. If you cloister against the wrong deck and they shatter it, you lose your hand. Like, let's say you are facing a deck like Czech Pile, something that you would love to have a howling mine effect for, and you stick a bridge and a Cloister.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
Then they Kolaghan's Command your Cloister and get back their snapcaster mage. Suddenly instead of being in a good spot, you are in an actively bad one.
Cloister is only "better" because of it's synergy with bridge, but overall, exiling a card for the turn is basically the same thing in this style deck because it doesn't really play reactive cards. If you exile a land, you just always play the land. If you exile a spell, you play that spell 95% of the time unless you need something incredibly specific (need a specific lock peice or sweeper normally).
I ended up playing Stompy at EE with a strong start but the wheels kind of came out at the end for a final record of x-3. I lost 0-2 to D&T, 1-2 to Grixis Delver and 1-2 to UW Miracles. The lotus petal tech was pretty clutch, i've had a few matches where it's been beneficial to just have that turn 1 explosive hand without having to exile something to chrome mox. Kudos to whoever started running it. Minus my round 1 opponent who was also on dragon stompy, most of my matches ended up being against greedy manabase decks so I won the stompy roulette with those.
So out of curiosity are hands with 2 mountains, and a bunch of good stuff that is 3 cmc + keepable? Would you keep a hand like this against D&T?
mountain, mountain, sulfur elemental, fiery confluence, chandra, ensnaring bridge, sudden demise.
2 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Lotus Petal
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
11 Mountain
4 Chrome Mox
2 Sin Prodder
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Sudden Shock
3 Sudden Demise
3 Sulfur Elemental
2 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
I would keep the hand, but you are very much at the mercy of variance as far as drawing enough lands to cast all the cards in your hand. I have lost many games in the early turns to D&T to Thalia + Port Lock. Despite our deck being full of basics we're mostly trying to resolve CMC3 and CMC4 non-creature cards against their deck, and without library manipulation and an average of only 23-24 actual permanent mana sources we are actually pretty weak to this form of mana denial. Even with our deck being almost half mana sources, that still means you're only ~50% likely to draw a mana each turn. This means that on average keeping a two mountain hand you may not be able to cast your 4CMC non-creature card until turn 5-6, which may be too late, especially if they land a mom or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
I feel like I win most postboard games where I can stabilize with 5 mana sources behind a bridge in the early stages of the game. There's a lot of strategy involved in setting up redundancy so we don't lost to flickerwisp shenanigans and SoFaI, but I feel very comfortable if I can get to that stage and resolve a board wipe or two. I also play with 4 Kozilek's return which I truly believe to be the best card against D&T over sulfur elemental which seems to be more popular.