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Wasteland is good in a meta with lots of Lands, especially if you're also boarding Crucible. Waste their Thespian Stage when they activate it and they don't get their Marit Lage, and getting a Crucible lock can be devastating after a Chalice on 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
I agree with Stuart in that Wasteland is good against Lands, especially with Crucible. Not only against Marit Lage, but also against Tabernacle and Maze of Ith. Just remember that you don't have to pay for Blightsteel since Tabernacle destroys, and Blightsteel is Indestructible. Wasteland can still be good against Burn to destroy their one-off Taiga for Destructive Revelry, as well as killing your own lands vs. PoP. Wasteland is pretty bad against Show and Tell though, but is only as bad as Cavern of Souls vs. non-blue decks. Though, naming Shapeshifter vs. non-blue decks to cast Phyrexian Metamorph can be pretty clutch.
Nope. If I knew that I was going to play only MUD for the rest of my life, I would give the entire Battle for Zendikar expansion back to Wizards in exchange for a cheap, consistent artifact whose effect is a one-sided draw or search engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
Yep, all good points. Lands isn't the easiest matchup, but we're better suited for it than some decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Anyway, just got back from Pat's Games Thurs Night Legacy. Good turnout - 16 players, I think? My list:
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone
4 Forgemaster
2 Wurmcoil
1 Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blightsteel
2 Ugin
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice
3 Trinisphere
2 Greaves
1 Staff of Domination
1 Coercive Portal
1 Staff of Nin
1 Spine of Ish Sah
4 Wasteland
4 Tomb
1 City of Traitors
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Platinum Angel
2 All is Dust
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Crucible
3 Tsabo's Web
Round I: Goblins
- Game 1: I'm off to a slow start, but then I Forgemaster out a Blighsteel on Greaves and win shortly thereafter.
- Game 2: Staff & Metalworker combo.
Round II: Omnitell
- Game 1: Show and Tell gets us Omniscience, and Wurmcoil, but he can't find his Emrakul and I get him.
- Game 2: He combos off.
- Game 3: I Show and Tell into a Spine to whack his Omniscience, then eventually lock it up with Ugin.
Round III: ANT
- Game 1: Chalice and Sphere do the work.
- Game 2: Thorn and Chalice do the work.
Round IV: ANT
- Game 1: Chalice locks him out.
- Game 2: Trinisphere and Wasteland lock him out.
So 4-0 felt nice, but 3 of those 4 were just easy MUD match ups. The deck is so well positioned right now.
On a side note, I highly recommend Pat's Games to anyone near Austin TX. I moved here from Boston at the beginning of September, and it's a great MtG scene. Awesome people, good crowds every time I go in.
How do you normally SB against OmniTell? For me, I have always taken out Ugin because I didn't think he'd create enough impact and would cost too much with multiple resistors, Thorn of Amethyst and Lodestone Golem, in play.
Good work!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Goblins can be a crapshoot depending on what they're splashing. I have a friend that packs mainboard cabal therapy's then brings Thoughtseize in post board. Quite brutal if he takes all your threats and attrition pieces.
Ugin makes sense to cut. Yesterday I didn't sideboard in that match, but generally speaking, I'd say +2 Thorn and -2 Ugin.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Potatodavid: yeah I could see that being rough. Still, I feel like it's fine; they aren't too quick to handle, and our threats outweigh theirs (especially when you get to topdeck mode).
They kick our ass in topdeck mode. Ringleader = 4 mana draw 0-4 cards. Matron = Go get whatever. They're running Cavern so Chalice is a bad card against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
I don't like playing Wasteland anymore I've sided it out .Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
Don't forget,
Buried Ruin
Tower of the magistrate (makes equipment fall off)
Blasted Landscape
Haven Of the Spirit Dragon
Darksteel Citadel (Forgemaster/metalworker food)
another bad land is Mishra's Factory.. it doesn't do much against tokens or germ . i never have reason to activate it. it's good against miracles and liliana though.
Fair enough, and obviously YMMV, but so many of our topdecks (Wurmcoil, Hellkite, Titan, Colossus, Ugin, Coercive Portal, and Staff of Nin) feel to me like they outclass anything Goblins can manage. But then again, I have very little experience with the Goblins matchup and it seems like you know it well, so maybe I just got lucky last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
Troll: Still a bit surprised at the Wasteland hate. Yeah, it can be tough to use, but a well-timed Waste can totally shut down Delver, ANT, and anything else with a greedy manabase. I've found that if you're willing to Waste early and play the long game, you'll catch up turns 2-4 while the greedier decks never recover (especially if you can follow up with a Chalice or Sphere).
So the whole set has been spoiled. So far, I may pick up two copies of Hedron Archive and two copies of Titan’s Presence. I am going to try Hedron Archive in place of Thran Dynamo. Though, Hedron Archive only generating three mana with Voltaic Key compared to five mana that Thran Dynamo can generate is a major negative. Even with just one mana short, it could mean the difference between being able to cast a Ugin or not. I think Titan's Presence could see play in MUD Stompy. It would have been better for two mana though because it will now cost four mana under a Lodestone Golem. I also have doubts that Titan's Presence would fair better than a sword like Jitte or SoFaI. The whole set has been underwhelming.
I am very much so in concurrence. It seems to be strictly limited centric. I like Titan's Presence and there is good reason to think it would be as good in a deck with swords/jitte. I've been thinking of trying a more aggressive build of MUD for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by L10
Also I may have been cheating in IRL magic all this time or this interaction has not come up for me but if you have a Trinisphere in play is it not possible to cast a Chalice of the Void with one counter on it? I built a version of MUD on MTGO today and when I cast Trinisphere I could no longer play a Chalice for 1.
You should be able to. Maybe it is a bug in MTGO. If Chalice has X @1, its CC will be 2, and Trinisphere bumps it up to 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by InWaking
Yeah, it is either a bug or you are not doing it right. Fun fact, Engineered Explosives' counters are based on Sunburst. So if your opponent wants to cast EE for 0, but you have a Trinisphere out, it may force them to pay something like UUB. I this case, EE gets two counters on it because UB was used to cast it, regardless of the intent to set it to 0. Something you should look out for.
Looking at the spoilers again, I think I am just going to save my money.
It's a shame, but I wasn't expecting too terribly much for mud, just cool eldrazi. Zendikar has always been colorless eldrazi stuff. We're looking for another mirrodin or phyrexian set for artifacts.
Looking to make a minor tweak on the above list and would like some input.
Either:
-1 city of traitors, +1 wasteland. Keep MD crucible
Or
-1 crucible, +1 coercive portal
I feel like right now I'm floating in between commiting to one of two things for my flex slots and would like to either focus more on the land destruction and recursion or a stronger card draw engine. A third option could always be dropping wasteland entirely for a couple factory or darksteel citadel to feed forgemaster. Currently leaning towards the second portal and don't really care for the third option but haven't tested it at all.
So in my local meta MUD is highly represented. I can always expect 2 MUD decks, and for the past two monthly there have been at least 2 MUD decks.
As I understand it, the more important things are:
-Who ever plays the first Cloudpost gains a serious advantage due to them being able to tap theirs first and gain mana from your Locus.
-Staff of Dominion is a hugely important card in this match up for stopping big blightsteel swings etc and one person will probably end up comboing off due to no disruption.
-The first 8 cards to come out are Chalice and Trinisphere. You replace them with literally anything else that is a big creature.
-Expect craziness. I've had 4 cloudposts tapping for 8 each and used them with staff to draw 7 a turn with staff.
-Hellkite is the second best threat after Blightsteel.
-Welder MUD beats normal MUD
Opinions?
I've played a lot of 12-post/mirrors in the past. Blightsteel vs Blightsteel, Wurmcoil vs Wurmcoil. The best threat is Karn, then Crucible+Wasteland. If you're thinking best creature threat, then yes for the late game, Metalworker/Forgemaster are threats early game.
First Cloudpost is not necessarily a serious advantage because you can screw them with Wasteland. 1st Metalworker in play is more dangerous than 1st Cloudpost. I've used Duplicant on a Metalworker, and Spine on Cloudpost just to hamper opponents before. Manabase is important.
And Welder MUD doesn't necessarily beat normal MUD. Welder MUD has to give up either the post lands or Wasteland to splash red and is more reliant on Welder/Metalworker/Sol Lands. Plus we have answers in our SB to Welder
Got 31st at SCG Milwaukee Legacy Premier IQ with Welder MUD.
Deck felt pretty solid against the field my losses mostly involved a strong start and then drawing a lot of air as well as the occasional nuts DTT from my opponent and also a Dack Fayden + Null Rod board state.
Congrats! That's awesome. What does your list look like? I have honestly not played with Welder for over a year, even though it is my favorite Magic card. And yeah, I have faced a non-trivial amount of Grixis Control decks with Kolaghan’s Command and Dack Feyden in the main, and Null Rod in the side. That's a big problem for us.
I think I am going to try something like this:
//Lands (22)
4 Wasteland
4 Great Furnace
4 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Mountain
//Welders (5)
3 Goblin Welder
2 Daretti, Scrap Savant
//Ramp (8)
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
//Threats (14)
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Blightsteel Colossus
//Utility (11)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds
Phyrexian Revoker is good because DRS is the bane of Welder.