[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

Someone certainly did. Someone is trying to spike Glacial Chasm, up to $4 from like $0.25. Inventions are getting spiked too. Guys must be bored with the summer.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

Guys must be bored with the summer.

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Seasons have no meaning for them, if they never leave their moms basement

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/.../afd.jpg_large

Someone needs to spike a GP with some copies of The Abyss or In the Eye of Chaos, I actually own some of those....

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Originally Posted by Undomian

Someone needs to spike a GP with some copies of The Abyss or In the Eye of Chaos, I actually own some of those....

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Seriously. Or Chains of Mephistopheles. Can you imagine what the price of that thing would be if someone T8'ed a GP playing it in Tezz or Jund or 4c Loam or whatever? And it's actually a very good legacy card to boot.

Several cards from Eternal Garden discussed here lately - Tabernacle, Drop of Honey, Glacial Chasm. As if that deck wasn't difficult to buy into in the first place, this will only deter more people from being able to play it.

This may be a shot in the dark, but I have a sneaking suspicion about Halls of Mist. I don't think it'll skyrocket, but it's one of those R.L. cards that has potential to spike a little.

I can't believe I bought my playset of MMA Chalice of the Void for $20 just a few years ago.

It really doesn't seem like that long ago that you could get Chalices for $5 a pop and now they're selling for $60+??

Judge Phyrexian Elesh Norn reprint and Gaddock Teeg with new art

Holy shit, that Teeg art is good.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Judge Phyrexian Elesh Norn reprint and Gaddock Teeg with new art

Holy shit, that Teeg art is good.

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He should be raising his middle finger not his index finger.

Yeah he definitely don't afraid of nuthin

Bet he even voted Independent

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

If Miracles becomes any good, Chains would be a legit card against it. Deck is nothing but cantrips.

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Originally Posted by jattra

Oh my
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Mo...Canonist#paper

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Who cares? It isn't on the reserved list. Only thing I care about is cards that aren't P9 getting so expensive. If you see few land players now, imagine in 5 years.

Seeing as Drop of Honey was basically reprinted in Porphyry Nodes, is there precedent to reprint reserved list cards in other colors?

Why was there no outcry for the printing of Porphyry Nodes, and though a crappy work-around, why can't they print a green Moat if they printed a white Drop of Honey?

The errata text on the two cards is exactly the same. Someone help me understand the reprint policy, and how the heck they got to print Nodes.

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Originally Posted by Kanti

Why was there no outcry for the printing of Porphyry Nodes, and though a crappy work-around, why can't they print a green Moat if they printed a white Drop of Honey?

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I think it might be the timing of everything.

Dark Depths was printed in 2006, Porphyry Nodes in 2007, and Thespian Stage was printed in 2013? Seems like the view point at the time was it's a bad card. I don't think Drop of Honey was ran in the early lands lists, and I think that's the only notable deck that runs it. Drop of Honey was also < $30 at the time.

Although, I didn't play back then, so I don't know. It's an interesting question and if someone knows a more concrete why, I'd be interested in knowing.

The community and the surrounding mediums of communication were much smaller them, it's possible there would be an outcry were it to happen.

Back then they were far less strict too. This was before even the premium RL reprints of Negator, Mox Diamond, and the functional reprint thing with Fork in Reverberate

Yeah but if we are talking about the Reserved list, unless something changed in writing I don't know how 10 changes anything, unless something was changed in writing. If it's the same policy, in writing, as then, then what the heck Wizards? Reprint, print, print.

And also, it's food for thought on the whole legal argument, seeing as they already printed a functional reprint. A pretty curious case.

Naaah... they've revisited the Reserved List since Porphyr was printed. It's not the same situation nowadays.

In the sideboard - favoring original Needle or the leaked peek-needle?

Dunno if this thread is the place to do it, but I think needle is better in any non chalice deck. If you're bringing in needle it's probably for a specific reason, and a peek at their hand to simply name the same card you were going to name with needle anyway isn't worth the extra mana. The only match up a couple see it being better than a needle that you may bring it in is against DNT because basically their whole deck is random things to name with needle. But then costing two (and often three because Thalia) is pretty bad for you because Thalia and Port. All the MUD players say they will play it over Revoker, but I'm not 100% sold as revoker attacking has relevancy, and shutting off mana abilities can be relevant (though less so when DRS is the main mana dork in the format) when stopping LED and Petals

Hmm, I don't think this thread was the right place for that.

Wizards seems to hinge on the 'functional reprint' part of the reserved list. Shifting an effect to a different color would probably be passable since it's an entirely functional change. Even with some proof to how good Drop of Honey is in RG Lands, most people are resistant to splashing white in the deck for Nodes since it would cause havoc on the mana base and could make the deck unstable in the early turns.

If Wizards wanted to, they'd be fairly able to color shift Reserved list cards. That would mean Moat in Blue (like an Island Sanctuary...which is white for some reason), Nether Void in White/Blue, Argivian Archaeologist in Blue, Chains of Mephistopheles in Blue/White, Koskun Falls in Blue/White (which has already happened twice), Tabernacle in blue/white (already happened twice), City of Solitude in Blue or White (happened twice, sorta)...plenty of ways to shift things around and get interesting reprints into colors that truly need and deserve them.

I don't think they would, but it's not unfeasible.

So your saying they should color shift all of the legends enchantments to blue?

can't wait for my blue nether void to compliment my Leovold :tongue:

May as well. If you aren't playing blue in legacy you're doing it wrong anyway

I see some have said it was 10 years ago, so the case is different today, and that WotC woudn't do it. How exactly was Harmless Offering released in 2016 then, as it's the exact same situation 10 years later. Donate cost 2U and is on the reserved list, Harmless Offering cost 2R and has a very, very similar text.

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness." <--- the RL policy. The way I read it, these cards shoudn't exist, as they have the same mana-cost, and are functionally idenctical. Changing colors doesn't change CMC.

Also @JPoJohnson: do you mind linking me, or just referring me to what year any changes happened? I can't find anything from Wizards saying they did. Thank you in advance.

edit: Another old case was Null Profusion being another color-shifted RL card, having the same exact errata as Recycle. And there is also the curious case of Reverberate, which is more like Harmless Offering in which the text slightly changes.

tl:dr=color-shifted Moat when?

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Originally Posted by Kanti

I see some have said it was 10 years ago, so the case is different today, and that WotC woudn't do it. How exactly was Harmless Offering released in 2016 then, as it's the exact same situation 10 years later. Donate cost 2U and is on the reserved list, Harmless Offering cost 2R and has a very, very similar text.

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness." <--- the RL policy. The way I read it, these cards shoudn't exist, as they have the same mana-cost, and are functionally idenctical. Changing colors doesn't change CMC.

Also @JPoJohnson: do you mind linking me, or just referring me to what year any changes happened? I can't find anything from Wizards saying they did. Thank you in advance.

edit: Another old case was Null Profusion being another color-shifted RL card, having the same exact errata as Recycle. And there is also the curious case of Reverberate, which is more like Harmless Offering in which the text slightly changes.

tl:dr=color-shifted Moat when?

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Reverberate had a pretty big shitstorm around it when it got spoiled. How about Twincast? Did that have a big uproar around it? As far as I can think that might be the earliest color shifted "reprint"?

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Originally Posted by Kanti

I see some have said it was 10 years ago, so the case is different today, and that WotC woudn't do it. How exactly was Harmless Offering released in 2016 then, as it's the exact same situation 10 years later. Donate cost 2U and is on the reserved list, Harmless Offering cost 2R and has a very, very similar text.

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness." <--- the RL policy. The way I read it, these cards shoudn't exist, as they have the same mana-cost, and are functionally idenctical. Changing colors doesn't change CMC.

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It's true changing colors doesn't change CMC. But it doesn't say "converted mana cost." It says "mana cost." 2R is a different mana cost than 2U.

If you swap out Fork for Reverberate, 99.999999% of the time it will be functionally identical. That is not the case for Donate and Harmless Offering; it'll make a pretty big difference if you have Blue mana but no Red mana (or vice versa).

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Reverberate had a pretty big shitstorm around it when it got spoiled. How about Twincast? Did that have a big uproar around it? As far as I can think that might be the earliest color shifted "reprint"?

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I don't remember anyone really caring about Twincast, but then again I don't remember much of a hubbub for Reverberate either.

Donate is an incredibly fringe card that is nominally pretty bad, hard to get outraged over harmless offering.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

Donate is an incredibly fringe card that is nominally pretty bad, hard to get outraged over harmless offering.

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So basically it's a crap card that sucks, and thus has little demand, and a low price. But if a card has high demand, and a high price, then the RList starts to matter?

At what dollar amount do people get outraged? RList is created to protect collectors, but I guess it doesn't matter when if they color-shift >$50 cards?

@LordSeth: You are right on the mana-cost, but it obviously seems pretty crazy. This means by nature they can't reprint any lands or artifact on the RList? Who thought of this?

Anyone protecting the reserve list is a moron on drugs at this point or simply has no idea how the market actually works

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Originally Posted by Kanti

So basically it's a crap card that sucks, and thus has little demand, and a low price. But if a card has high demand, and a high price, then the RList starts to matter?

At what dollar amount do people get outraged? RList is created to protect collectors, but I guess it doesn't matter when if they color-shift >$50 cards?

@LordSeth: You are right on the mana-cost, but it obviously seems pretty crazy. This means by nature they can't reprint any lands or artifact on the RList? Who thought of this?

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So are you okay with Stony Silence being a card?

Any clue why Thoughtseize (Lorwyn especially) is rising these days?

Because it's pretty :wink:

at least when compared to the Theros one

Been a few years since it was reprinted and Grixis death shadow is pretty good in modern (if I had to guess)

And I agree, it is very pretty.

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Originally Posted by jattra

Any clue why Thoughtseize (Lorwyn especially) is rising these days?

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I think Modern Death's Shadow has a lot to do with it. Not sure why Lorwyn specifically, though.

Both printings have been on a natural rise, but Lorwyn's spiked hard this week despite not looking like an actual buyout (or was just a failed one).

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...?product=13119

That's a pretty decent price for an unlimited USea, right? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...?product=13119

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Is SCG jacking up the prices again? This doesn't make sense:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Re...ound+Sea#paper

lol, they're trying to spike revised duals to 500? I wonder if they forgot about the price ceiling provided by unlimited, FBB, Beta, and Alpha... Seems like they're putting a lot of faith in vintage if you think all these Sea prices are going to upshift vs the fairly stable price of power. There isn't exactly a booming market for people looking for ~$3k beta Seas (they list them at 5k), particularly b/c your getting into low-end Lotus pricing...

I'd like to know how the meeting went down on this decision. Nevermind that Volc is performing better than USea right now, it seems a bit ambitious to spike Sea $100 over Volc given that Sea casts Death's Shadow (easiest blue dual to replace with shock-land).

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Originally Posted by Fox

lol, they're trying to spike revised duals to 500? I wonder if they forgot about the price ceiling provided by unlimited, FBB, Beta, and Alpha... Seems like they're putting a lot of faith in vintage if you think all these Sea prices are going to upshift vs the fairly stable price of power. There isn't exactly a booming market for people looking for ~$3k beta Seas (they list them at 5k), particularly b/c your getting into low-end Lotus pricing...

I'd like to know how the meeting went down on this decision. Nevermind that Volc is performing better than USea right now, it seems a bit ambitious to spike Sea $100 over Volc given that Sea casts Death's Shadow (easiest blue dual to replace with shock-land).

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Revised duals cannot be compared with power...
1,100 Alpha sets
3,200 Beta sets
18,500 Unlimited sets
289,000 Revised sets
So they printed ~300000 seas vs ~22000 sapphires.
Yes, you can play 4 seas and only 1 sapphire, but even with this..

I don't think they are really trying to spike the price of all duals, but just the NM/M ones.
Also... who plays Death's Shadow in Legacy/Vintage?

All this is going to do is push the market more towards Chinese duals. Supposedly they're printing black ink layers now too. I took a look and it seems the only real limitation will be getting blue core paper, but good luck testing for that outside of a microscope-style loupe.

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Originally Posted by guillemnicolau

Revised duals cannot be compared with power...
1,100 Alpha sets
3,200 Beta sets
18,500 Unlimited sets
289,000 Revised sets
So they printed ~300000 seas vs ~22000 sapphires.
Yes, you can play 4 seas and only 1 sapphire, but even with this..

I don't think they are really trying to spike the price of all duals, but just the NM/M ones.
Also... who plays Death's Shadow in Legacy/Vintage?

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What I'm saying is if I go to a vendor at a GP or EW and I see beta Sea at SCG's $5k sitting next to a $3k unlimited Lotus or beta Recall, I'm not going to buy the Sea (assuming I'm there to spend such a high amount). If you push revised Sea to $500, then FBB and unlimited Seas start costing as much as an unlimited Mox...so congrats on raising the price of revised Sea on the back of a top end that is kind of fictitious if power stays about where it is price-wise. They can be compared, because they're sitting right next to eachother in the same case wherever you go to buy cards.

I mean there's some Shadow going on in legacy, but the point is more that Volc is performing better than Sea right now and SCG lists it at $100 less, and you can't really come up with a reason to run Steam Vents over Volc while the same is not true with Sea.

This was brought to my attention and is likely the reason for the hike:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...lds-2017-07-19

Legacy in the PT.