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I agree on its uses as sacrifice fodder and as a backup ramp source: used to do tricks like float Dryad Arbor mana, Diabolic Intent for one more. However, I have found that because Arbor dies to Deed too easily without any real contribution, using a Green Sun's Zenith on turn 1 for it is questionable to me.
Well you shouldn't rely on it; it's just nice to be able to do
If you need temporary ramp or if you don't have deed, it's a good play.
I never zenith for arbor it is simply there for the times when I really REALLY need to therapy something from my opponents hand such as in game 2 against my latest show and tell opponent. Though I agree with you that as a land it sucks it has saved my bacon more often than screwed me over so it will probably stay.
I ran it in straight GB for awhile. It was either really good, or really bad. Not a fan of it personally since Deathrite was printed. I see the merits of it being free Sacrifice fodder though and I definitely think it has its uses
May I suggest a Mishra's Factory or Treetop Village then? Both can tap to activate themselves, and thus can be used as sacrifice fodder.Quote:
Originally Posted by plogan
Or at the very least, run more Verdant Catacombs and whatever the GW Fetch is: they can also fetch Dryad Arbor late game in case you're going into top deck mode.
Mishra's and village suck for that purpose. They can't be fetched by gsz or fetches. Also village needs an extra mana to activate, and Mishra's causes problems with your manabase.
He only has one of each dual and 7 basics; more fetches isn't really an option
Cutting a marsh flats is a possibility though
While they are indeed worse for sacrifice outlets and can't be easily searched save for PrimeTime, they are better at combat in general and can work around Deed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
As far as fetches go, I suggest running the full set of Windswept Heath and Verdant Catacombs before Marsh Flats. Don't really have a legitimate reason why other than Nic Fit is so green heavy anyway that 8 Fetches that can get a basic Forest or Forest dual feels optimal, but a similar deckbuilding philosophy has served me well with my own BUG Fit.
Anyhow, I had skimmed over plogan's list the first time: let me give it a few trial runs and see how it goes.
They're just not good enough to reliably fight combo that way. If I had villages in my list I would still run arbor.
True, but like I told someone earlier on (about a few weeks ago, not too far back), it's best to focus the main deck towards beating fair decks (with Cabal Therapy and Rector enchantments being the exceptions) and to focus most of the sideboard to beating various combo decks.
In all honesty, Nic Fit has plenty of room for deck-building choices, so it may turn out what's good for one list is bad for another. Best way to find out is to grind out training sessions.
Do you really want dryad arbor taking up sideboard space?Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Plus the gsz -> arbor is still a relevant and useful thing, despite the weakness of it to removal and deed. It's just like casting a mana elf. It is useful for the time it is on the battlefield. You shouldn't keep hands you would otherwise mull because you can gsz for arbor, but it is nice to have.
TrueQuote:
In all honesty, Nic Fit has plenty of room for deck-building choices, so it may turn out what's good for one list is bad for another. Best way to find out is to grind out training sessions.
But plogan did test it
I'm looking forward to testing Ralf's Planeswalker build, just bought the last Ashiok and Vraska. It's fascinating to see how many archetypes can fit within a Nic Fit shell...
On another subject, I think Zameck Guildmage merits some testing. I couldn't find any mentioning of it in this thread. It seems like a good alternative to Melira, Sylvok Outcast if you're playing blue. With one activation of the +1/+1 effect it enables the same combo of infinite sacrificing of a creature with persist.
During the late game, or during podding, it allows you to give any topdecked creature +1/+1, +2/+2, +3/+3 etc when entering. Since podding doesn't require a lot of mana once it gets going there should be opportunities to boost the podded creatures and drawing cards. A late topdecked Veteran Explorer is usually rather useless but with Zameck around it could give you, with GGGUUU available, a 4/4 creature. And potentially drawing three cards next turn. Or just boosting it once, drawing a card and then sacrificing. A Dryad Arbor in the deck could similarly make any late topdecked fetchland useful. If you instead consider podding into Deranged Hermit/Grave Titan in the same situation that would even be a rather strong move.
It adds to the blue count for Force of Will, assuming it's not sided out. 1-2 Glen Elendra Archmage in the 75 could make it worth keeping in.
Some cards that Zameck has good synergy with:
1. persist creatures + sacrifice outlet.
Sacrifice outlets: the usual combination - Varolz, the Scar-Striped; for single sacrificing Birthing Pod, Recurring Nightmare, Diabolic Intent, Phyrexian Tower
Persist creatures: the usual combination of Murderous Redcap, Kitchen Finks and Glen Elendra Archmage. Note that the Redcap gets some extra synergy by shooting for 3+ damage during a single sacrifice.
2. Token generators: Deranged Hermit, Grave Titan, Lingering Souls, Primeval Bounty, Garruk Relentless, Garruk, Primal Hunter
3. +1/+1 counter generators for extra card drawing: Scavenging Ooze, Varolz, the Scar-Striped, Spike Feeder, Necroplasm, Strangleroot Geist, Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Primeval Bounty, Archangel of Thune, Gavony Township
One of the problems with the combo is that Melira is very week on her own and Varolz is relatively week (unless you find some good high power and low CMC creatures to put in the deck). However Zameck seems much better than Melira on its own. And Varolz's ability becomes more valuable with Zameck around.
Another problem is that it's hard to assemble the combo. I'm thinking Zameck may possibly be good enough on its own though. It dies easily, and is killed by deed. But the card draw, boosting any creature and the repeated benefits of the already useful persist creatures may make it worthwile. And you can get it back from the graveyard to assemble the combo in the late game with an Eternal Witness or Recurring Nightmare.
I like the idea of zameck guildmage. I agree that it solves that main issue with melira.
Maybe a 4 color build with thune combo?
I could see maybe cutting a marsh flats for another bayou in my list, also I'm not looking for a utility land so much as another reliable mana source should've specified that earlier sorry all.
Sorry for a long post... It's hard to focus it with all the deck building alternatives. And since I'm in the process of focusing it, obviously. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
I did try to fit everything I wanted into a 5 color deck (easily changed into 4 colours), I'll post it here in case you're interested in a starting point. It's not nearly finished. I tried it for three local tournaments in different versions. Never quite got used to all the options or decided to focus on a gameplan. Will continue later. At best it went 2-0-1 where 1 win was from a bye, one 2-1 win against Sneak and Show where I got to show in Opposition in two games (winning, however it was an inexperienced player and he lacked Lotus Petals), and 1-1 against Blade Control (he actually won the third game which we played out quickly after the tournament). During the following tournament I had a couple of situations where the mana base was causing problems, so I'm trying a BUG(r) list now.
Why red?
The 5th color is red and it's used against combo and perhaps control decks (without wasteland). There are 10 cards (+ Brainstorm) that let you get red mana. Red is used for Slaughter Games (sideboard) and Rise//Fall (maindeck). I posted my comments on Rise//Fall previously here. Basically it has good synergy with most creatures in the deck, and against combo or control it's a weaker version of Hymn to Tourach that can be removed for Force of Will. And it synergizes with Cabal Therapy and Shriekmaw. I use it in place of Abrupt Decay in the maindeck, though putting decay in the sideboard for Miracles (perhaps more copies of Slaughter Games would be better though) and Chalice of the Void, Pithing Needle, Blood Moon etc. Rise//Fall could work well with Intuition too - Intuition for Eternal Witness, Rise//Fall and Recurring Nightmare would be good, and it's tempting to try out Life from the Loam.
Why white?
To put it shortly it adds power to any creature matchup (Mystic + Batterskull + Sigarda), it adds poddable creature removal (Pontiff) and gives two tutorable cards for the combo matchup (Rector for Opposition and GSZ for Gaddock). Academy Rector will also get Deed against aggro and Recurring Nightmare against control.
The plan against combo in the first game is to attack the opponent's hand with Cabal Therapy and Rise//Fall, attack the opponent's graveyard with Deathrite Shaman and Scavenging Ooze, pod into Glen Elendra Archmage and possibly a Zameck Guildmage, when appropriate Green Sun's Zenith for Gaddock Teeg (get rid of him with Recurring Nightmare / Pod / Rise//Fall if you need to cast something), attack the opponent's mana with Opposition and possibly Recurring Nightmare/Acidic Slime. Opposition can stop most big creatures (except Ulamog and Progenitus). Then. After sideboarding there are plenty of counterspells and when you hit red mana you can Slaughter Games important pieces.
The plan against creature based decks is, I guess, to pod into Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull and then later pod or GSZ for Sigarda, which is very good with a batterskull on it. Who cares about True-Name Nemesis, Jace or Liliana? Also the Orzhov Pontiff, Massacre Wurm and Umezawa's Jitte give plenty of ways to get rid of opposing troublesome creature swarms. This is not really a deed deck in its current incarnation and that's why I have pod answers to creatures, I guess. And there are plenty of ways to gain life with Umezawa's Jitte, Batterskull, Kitchen Finks, Archangel of Thune and Deathrite Shaman. And card advantage with Recurring Nightmare, Pod and persist creatures.
Against control decks I like Recurring Nightmare with Acidic Slime, taking their lands. And Slaughter Games to get rid of threats. And Sigarda with Batterskull.
CREATURES (21)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Baleful Strix
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Zameck Guildmage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Eternal Witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Academy Rector
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Acidic Slime
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
ENCHANTMENTS (3)
1 Opposition
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
SORCERIES (8)
2 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Rise // Fall
INSTANTS (4)
4 Brainstorm
ARTIFACTS (4)
3 Birthing Pod
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
LANDS (20)
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Savannah
3 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Taiga
SIDEBOARD
2 Carpet of Flowers
4 Force of Will
2 Slaughter Games
1 Envelop
1 Flusterstorm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 Moat
1 Massacre Wurm
Changes:
Next I would try to make the deck more consistent, and trim some alternatives. Probably need to skip one color, and I want to keep the one that gives me the best chances against combo decks.
- I would like to have more relevant maindeck cards against combo (such as Negate, Thoughtseize, Gitaxian Probe or +1 Glen Elendra Archmage).
- Adding a Sensei's Divining Top or two would help with the forth and fifth colours.
Changes, less red:
- Change Slaughter Games into Riptide Pilferer or Nether Void?
- I like Rise//Fall but should probably try switching them into Abrupt Decay and then changing Force of Wills into Negates. Even if it goes against my ambitions to have a chance game 1 against combo.
- Adding a Spike Feeder for increased chances to collect a combo, and for utility.
Changes, less white:
- Change Archangel of Thune into... Grave Titan? I read in the reanimator thread that it's their best clock. Should try it.
- Change Umezawa's Jitte and Orzhov Pontiff into Sensei's Divining Top or Glen Elendra Archmage? Or change Orzhov Pontiff into a maindecked Massacre Wurm, to lessen dependence on white. Adding a Glen Elendra to the sideboard.
I feel like blue and white will give you enough options against comboQuote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
Also rise and fall seems good but not really worth splashing red for.
Use memoricide/extraction over slaughter games
1-of mystic seems awkward as it's hard to pod into, unless you like to keep explorers around randomly.Quote:
The plan against creature based decks is, I guess, to pod into Stoneforge Mystic for Batterskull and then later pod or GSZ for Sigarda, which is very good with a batterskull on it. Who cares about True-Name Nemesis, Jace or Liliana? Also the Orzhov Pontiff, Massacre Wurm and Umezawa's Jitte give plenty of ways to get rid of opposing troublesome creature swarms. This is not really a deed deck in its current incarnation and that's why I have pod answers to creatures, I guess. And there are plenty of ways to gain life with Umezawa's Jitte, Batterskull, Kitchen Finks, Archangel of Thune and Deathrite Shaman. And card advantage with Recurring Nightmare, Pod and persist creatures.
I'd rather have thragtusk and kitchen finks. Keep the batterskull though
I'm not really worried about the deck's control matchup. It seems pretty good.
Cards I curious about:
Quote:(Even though I don't like it, you did the testing)Quote:
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:(Would humility be better?)Quote:
(Rector target?)Quote:
(Was this the right number?)Quote:
(Same as sfm)Quote:
(How did it work?)Quote:
I like these changesQuote:
Changes:
Next I would try to make the deck more consistent, and trim some alternatives. Probably need to skip one color, and I want to keep the one that gives me the best chances against combo decks.
- I would like to have more relevant maindeck cards against combo (such as Negate, Thoughtseize, Gitaxian Probe or +1 Glen Elendra Archmage).
- Adding a Sensei's Divining Top or two would help with the forth and fifth colours.
Quote:
- Adding a Spike Feeder for increased chances to collect a combo, and for utility.
These changes don't work togetherQuote:
- Change Archangel of Thune into... Grave Titan?
I like the thune combo, ftr.
You can try just taking out red and see how it works.
Played my pod list with a Forceless SB last night. Didn't do too hot with 1-3. Still feel like it is player error and not necessarily the deck that is getting me though.
SB:
1 Deed
1 Notion Thief
1 Glen ELendra
3 Thoughtseize
3 Swan Song
1 Zur's Wierding
3 Krosan Grip
2 Golgari Charm
Round 1 MetalWorker MUD with Painter Stone. He goes T2 Greaves, I blind therapy hitting 2 Metalworker. Then Slime his T2 Staff of Domination and just totally annihilate him. Game 2 I just brought in Deed and a couple of KGrip. I die pretty quickly as he gets Goblin Welder and Greaves on the board, I dont see a Deed. My removal and discard becomes useless. Game 3 I Miss metal worker (shouldve named Welder though in hindsight) and he plays Welder. Again it makes my artifact removal useless. I do draw fleshbag to get it off of the board, then flashback therapy to get his in hand Forgemaster. Unfortunately he top decks a welder like a champ, gets back forgemaster, gets Blightsteel, and kills me that turn. I didn't have a green source to activate DRS :/
Round 2 Burn. It was actually vs the guy who committed DCI fraud at the SCG Invi a few weeks back. We were all surprised he hadn't been banned yet. Im sure it is coming. Anyway, he gets double Goblin Guide, I get DRS and Veteran and chump with explorer, gaining a couple life off of DRS. He is dumb and doesnt kill it. He gets me down to 2, But I GSZ for Scooze and play wood elves just to chump block. Even tually I trade with all of his men, top deck a pod, then top deck Glen Elendra to get Tusk and Use my in hand Image to Copy Tusk. GG. Game 2 I therapy away a flame rift and double fireblast, stabilize at one and have a couple of turns where I am dead to any burn spell. He draws lands, I slam Glen Elendra and get finks and Fleshbag in to gain life and bring the pain while Glen Elendra locks him out.
Round 3 Punishing Jund. This game was awkward and showed why Planeswalkers are something that I need to figure out a better way to deal with. I knew he was on jund and kept some loose one landers with Veteran explorer, but never draw any therapies to really get his hand, and with a slow start he gets ahead with Goyfs and Liliana which I cant deal with and I just die. Both games. Meh. This one was probably on me not Mulliganing.
Round 4 vs White Prison Weenies. Lol vs my friend . I dont think I can actually beat this deck featuring 4 Suppression Field, 4 Leonin Arbiter, 3 Aven Mindcensor. Also I never drew a deed. Got raped in the for fun game.
The sideboard was meh. Still figuring out what I want to do there. I still think that in my meta I don't need force. I definitely don't need 3 KGrip either. Probably cut back to 2. In the main, I still haven't used Thrun, I may switch it up to a Redcap or something, My 4 drops just seem underwhelming in some board states. Is there any good creature that is worth playing that can deal with Walkers? I was thinking honestly of playing like a Hero's Downfall or something. Decay can deal with Liliana, but not Jace.
Thanks for your comments! I'll test them. I have tried to answer your comments below.
You'r probably right, I was planning to go for BUG(r) but I'll try BUGw too now.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
I feel like a Batterskull in the deck without the Mystic will appear randomly, which is good, but being able to pod into it is better. Tutorable great cards are much better than untutorable great cards. It gives you a) card advantage when tutored, b) probably the cheapest (CMC-wise) threat of the deck, c) early lifegain and blocking (very relevant for a deck that tries to survive until the late game) and d) a strong lategame threat on its own and better with Sigarda. The only obvious disadvantages I can see are that it doesn't do much vs combo and that it requires W and preferably WW. I like it in Nic Fit even without the Birthing Pods. To me it seems like a superior Thragtusk. The Jitte can be a key card too in certain matchups (see comment on Pontiff below). Having 4 Veteran Explorers in the deck means you'll regularly be podding into it, without a deckbuilding effort to do so; the Dryad Arbor makes it easy to pod into it when it's crucial.Quote:
1-of mystic seems awkward as it's hard to pod into, unless you like to keep explorers around randomly.
I'd rather have thragtusk and kitchen finks. Keep the batterskull though
I'm not really worried about the deck's control matchup. It seems pretty good.
Baleful Strix and Phantasmal Image are just generally useful, they could be exchanged. I think I did swap the Image already, not sure for what. The Strix is just there to help me survive the first few turns, and getting a land. It could be exchanged for something. I could try Spike Feeder.Quote:
Cards I curious about:
I started with Orzhov Pontiff and Umezawa's Jitte in the sideboard but since I used them often I added them to the maindeck. There's usually Elves, Maverick, Goblins and Death and Taxes in my local meta. Which also motivates the Massacre Wurm (also killing dredge-zombies, TNN, flipped Delver etc, and remember you can recur it to deal double damage with -4/-4 {edit: my mistake, no double damage}).
I started with Harmonic Sliver in the maindeck but changed it to Acidic Slime after a couple of games where I could have used it to remove all opposing lands in a topdecking war. It didn't matter much yet that it costs more. However the Sliver was stopped by Chalice of the Void for 3 once and some other time by the white mana cost.
The reason for Opposition above Humility is that it is useful in more matchups. The deck has enough creatures for Humility to be useful too, and Batterskull has good synergy. But I like that with Opposition in play each creature that enters the battlefield under your control can neutralize one land for the opponent. So if you survive until turn 3-4 your combo-playing opponent will practically lose one land for each creature you play. Making it hard to land a Dream Halls, Ad Nauseam {edit: bad example, it's an instant}, etc. There are lots of cards that can do a similar thing, but I haven't found any that will potentially put a mana lock on a combo player OR stop Emrakul/Grizzlebrand once in play OR stop an opposing Batterskull, flipped Delver or almost any other creature. And sacrifice to Force of Will as a bonus. It has very wide uses. On paper I like it, but it's quite slow.Quote:
Regarding the two Green Sun's Zenith I'm not sure what would be the correct number. I'd like to add one for increased consistency in getting Veteran Explorer or a combat dominating creature (Sigarda/Finks). And then it's valuable for the Ooze and Gaddock when they matter, or lastly for increased chances of accidentally pulling of the combo.
Regarding Grave Titan / Spike Feeder you're right, it was my intention to mention it as two separate plausible changes.
Wait until t4 to sac an explorer?Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
I see what you mean about arbor, but I don't like having to sac lands to pod into an sfm. It's just as random as batterskull for me.
Ok so this is a meta thing. Makes sense.Quote:
I started with Orzhov Pontiff and Umezawa's Jitte in the sideboard but since I used them often I added them to the maindeck. There's usually Elves, Maverick, Goblins and Death and Taxes in my local meta. Which also motivates the Massacre Wurm (also killing dredge-zombies, TNN, flipped Delver etc, and remember you can recur it to deal double damage with -4/-4 {edit: my mistake, no double damage}).
Does this come up very often?Quote:
I started with Harmonic Sliver in the maindeck but changed it to Acidic Slime after a couple of games where I could have used it to remove all opposing lands in a topdecking war. It didn't matter much yet that it costs more. However the Sliver was stopped by Chalice of the Void for 3 once and some other time by the white mana cost.
Do you find killing artifacts and enchantments is useful enough to warrant a maindeck slot?
Seems nice.Quote:
The reason for Opposition above Humility is that it is useful in more matchups. The deck has enough creatures for Humility to be useful too, and Batterskull has good synergy. But I like that with Opposition in play each creature that enters the battlefield under your control can neutralize one land for the opponent. So if you survive until turn 3-4 your combo-playing opponent will practically lose one land for each creature you play. Making it hard to land a Dream Halls, Ad Nauseam {edit: bad example, it's an instant}, etc. There are lots of cards that can do a similar thing, but I haven't found any that will potentially put a mana lock on a combo player OR stop Emrakul/Grizzlebrand once in play OR stop an opposing Batterskull, flipped Delver or almost any other creature. And sacrifice to Force of Will as a bonus. It has very wide uses. On paper I like it, but it's quite slow.
Its slowness is why it's a rector target, isn't it? :P
I agree.Quote:
Regarding the two Green Sun's Zenith I'm not sure what would be the correct number. I'd like to add one for increased consistency in getting Veteran Explorer or a combat dominating creature (Sigarda/Finks). And then it's valuable for the Ooze and Gaddock when they matter, or lastly for increased chances of accidentally pulling of the combo.
in what match up did the zur weirding come in handy i am really intreged by thatQuote:
Originally Posted by megadeus
Wierding is supposed to come in vs combo. You drop it (after disrupting their hand preferably) and it is actually just a hard lock. Anytime they would draw either a spell that can win the game for them, or an answer to the wierding you pay 2 life and make them discard it. Alternatively, maybe even miracles since they are so threat light a lot of the time.
oooh that naughty lolQuote:
Originally Posted by megadeus
that's interesting...how effective is it? They can just stop you from drawing threats too, although I imagine you're more threat dense than combo.
Interesting choice, though I'm wondering how well it works against TES and ANT since they have Past in Flames.
Pif is a one outer for ANT and tes would have to wish for it so that doesn't work. Also the idea is kind of to hopefully have a threat before you drop it. Because since it is a hard lock, all you need is even a lowly strix or vet to win. I've yet to play against combo though so it is all theory.
Well they still need to find the Past in Flames, which will be hard to do if they have no draw step (or a very limited one.)Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
You need to have a decent threat out before you drop this, or they can just shock race you.
Just wrote a paragraph on the card and lost it... so sad. I'll rewrite later after work
Fair enough. As for the clock issue, that's one of the reasons I like the Glen Elendra Archmage + Melira, Sylvok Outcast lock, as the lock pieces itself can swing for damage themselves.
Speaking of which, I'm not sure if Melira is better than Master Biomancer for this lock or not: more or less just a CMC issue versus clock issue.
On the topic of Zur's Weirding against ANT, they can not only use Past in Flames but also Infernal Tutor or/for Ad Nauseam if they have it in hand. Any card in hand can still be used, of course, so extra discard in the sideboard seems slightly more useful than normally if you're using Zur's Weirding. On the other hand, counterspells will do the trick too. I agree Zur's Weirding seems like a good combo hoser. I tried it once but never got to put it into play. Very interested in reading about your future experiences, Megadeus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
With a Zur's Weirding in play against a combo deck any creature in your deck will be a threat, so you may have a pretty good threat density depending on sideboarding. However Volrath's Stronghold should work well with it. And Birthing Pod.
You could also consider Zameck Guildmage as an alternative to those two. Here's a recent comment on it:Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post778132
No, I wouldn't postpone sacrificing an Explorer during turn 1-3 to keep it for starting a pod chain later. But suppose you reach turn 5-6 something and haven't hit your Batterskull yet (most games). Without the Mystic in your deck you will have about 2% chance of pulling the single Batterskull. If you have a Pod in play, there is a chance of about 4% to pull Mystic or Batterskull and in addition to those 4% there is up to (~13/45) 29% chance of drawing a card that can start a pod chain to get the Batterskull. And note that you get the Skull as an extra card from Mystic and can continue the pod chain.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
I guess I also wouldn't sacrifice a land when I need lands, but when you reach 5+ lands a mystic to pod away + a Batterskull will often be better than one extra land. The Arbor does have its disadvantages though.
I guess I need to play more but so far the Slime has been good, yes. I'm very happy with it. I do want to have something in the main for artifacts and enchantments, especially with TNN and all equipments being used. And it does offer an answer to Sneak Attack / Omniscience / Grove of the Burnwillows. I guess if you run 3 Deeds though you may have a different situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
Yes, it's a bit expensive to play, but the slowness really comes about once it has reached play, when you start tapping down lands or creatures and wait for a big creature (Sigarda) to finish the game, a Deed or some other game breaking card. I need to play it more though to be able to evaluate it properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfiremc13
With Zur's Weirding, the hope is that you have disrupted their hand and such to the point that they can not just win with whatever is in hand. Like I said, I have done 0 testing and it is all theoretical. My thoughts on it in different Match Ups:
ANT: probably the weakest here as has been pointed out. If you can't snipe an Infernal Tutor out of their hand your Wierding does nothing. Even if you do they can simply draw pif and win anyway. Still though, if they don't have a tutor or something in hand, then you have 4 Tutors, 1 Tendrils, 1 Adnauseam, and maybe a grim Tutor to deal with? Otherwise you don't have to worry about too many things. I guess if you really have a clock down already you can even stop their cantrips.
TES: Card seems good, but they do have a lot of things that you can't let them have. 4 Infernal, 4 Burning Wish, Ad Nauseam, Empty the Warrens (unless you have deed in hand). That is 10 cards, which over the course of the game COULD equal 20 life.
Mono U Omni: This is where I feel that it is varied. not only can they help you get it into play sometimes via Show and Tell, but they are extremely threat light. If they don't have cunning wish in hand when they get their Omni into play, it is actually just a hard lock. Just prevent them from drawing 1 of their 4 Cunning Wish. If they are running the singleton Emrakul it becomes a tad awkward. As you preventing them to draw him allows them to shuffle their yard in and keep casting ETI's until you run out of life. This is actually something I hadn't thought of when I added the card.
Sneak and Show: Fairly Strong here. Drop it and since they reveal their hand, assuming you haven't seen it or disrupted it already, you just prevent them from drawing either creatures if they have SnT or Sneak in play, or sneak and Show if they have dudes in play.
When I am boarding vs Combo, I am generally boarding in 3 Thoughtseize, 3 Swan Song, 1 Weirdingand sometimes maybe Golgari Charm for sneaks. So you do end up going to 7 hand disrution spells post board.
Alright: my current list (see top link in signature) is pretty much set in stone for an unknown meta in terms of the main deck, but I'm having some difficulties with the side.
Some things I will keep in just because of how good they are in our trouble matchups, but I definitely have my doubts regarding Phyrexian Revoker, or any other card that could fit into that slot for that matter.
The gist for Revoker is to bring it in against combo such as Elves!, Sneak and Show, or anything that relies on activated abilities of a particular nonland card such as LED.
I like the list a lot. One question, is there not an underground sea because of a budget reason or is it due to it just not needed?
Also revoker seems fine. Considering in every combo MU you board out Deed other than elves anyway
I like the Revokers as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Melira without Pod and only 2 Archmages for Persist abuses seems a bit awkward. Is the chance of setting up the hard lock that much better than just running a 3rd Archmage or Revoker?
In my limited experience, actually needing Underground Sea before setting off a Veteran Explorer trigger is rare and needing it after that is even rarer. I'm much more likely to fetch a basic land or Bayou/Tropical Island.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Green Sun's Zenith helps a lot with getting Melira out, though I will admit that setting up the other half of that combo is a bit tricky since I can't tutor for Archmage other than Diabolic Intent and intense digging . . . looks like I've got some grinding to do ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by civet five
I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
True.Quote:
I guess if you run 3 Deeds though you may have a different situation.
I see.Quote:
Yes, it's a bit expensive to play, but the slowness really comes about once it has reached play, when you start tapping down lands or creatures and wait for a big creature (Sigarda) to finish the game, a Deed or some other game breaking card. I need to play it more though to be able to evaluate it properly.
Gleicher on camera with BUG pod again.
So good. Hope he does well. Would like to see his listQuote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Apparently he plays Aetherling. Oh yes. I knew it was the second best 6 drop after grave titan
Beating a t3 jace while being on the draw is pretty tough for vet.
That was also a pretty terrible keep. Especially when you knew your opponent was keeping his 7. I mean I know time was running thin, but that hand was bad. 6 lands and a vet
Should've sent both Explorers against the Jace at 2.
David ended up in 10th. Nice job!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=62393