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Originally Posted by jandax
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Originally Posted by jandax
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Does anyone have a tested fast-Zoo/Steppe Lynx list they can share?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ort-collectionQuote:
Originally Posted by TheSleeper
He says is Goyf-SlighEither way, I like that way more than normal Zoo.
so are we just cutting gaddock teeg from sideboard, is he no longer necessary?
Well since that's my Goyf Sligh list, I feel I should throw out an updated version, which is basically to say there should be 4 chains...
4 Goblin Guide
4 Nacatl
4 Lynx
3 Lavamancer
4 Goyf
4 Bolt
4 Chain
4 Rift Bolt
3 Price of Progress
3 Fireblast
1 Reckless Charge
2 Sylvan Library
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Plateau
3 Taiga
2 Mountains
That should serve you pretty well, but if you're looking for something more traditionally Zoo, I'm currently playing...
Good Zoo
4 Nacatl
4 Lynx
3 Lavamancer
4 Pridemage
4 Goyf
2 Knight
4 Bolt
4 Chain
3 Fireblast
4 Path
2 Library
4 Mesa
4 Heath
3 Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
Actually, that doesn't really take into account Price of Progress which should be good again in the new meta. I haven't decided where I want to fit it back in yet, so you may have to fiddle around with it a bit.
]However, playing both Nacatl and Lynx gives both consistency and speed. Big Zoo won’t always get a Nacatl in their initial draw; however, when playing a full play set of both Nacatl and Lynx and the odds are very good at getting one of them in your opening seven. Playing 11-12 fetches with Sylvan Library in my view, offers stable consistency. It is noteworthy to mention that the last two Zoo builds to win SCG legacy opens both used Lynx and at the last legacy GP (Columbus), the best Zoo deck (Alix Hatfield 12th place finish) also played a full set of Lynx.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Not true, see above.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Of course it is going to be mana hungry when you are playing a whole bunch of 3cc and 4cc cards. Who said anything about playing Loam Lion or even Kird Ape for that matter? I sure don’t! Nacatl, Lynx and Lava are my one drop animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
Troop: You don’t play Teeg or Canonist because of the 2cc yet you undermine this logic by playing a full play set of the 2cc and even more mana colour intensive Meddling Mage. Even with Noble you’re not resolving Mage until turn two at the absolute earliest; same time as Teeg or Canonist would/ could resolve. When on the draw this just is not good enough. I agree with you on MBT against combo in addition to the aforementioned options.Quote:
Originally Posted by troopatroop
I wasn't disagreeing, I've been running Lynx ever since people in this thread started giving it serious consideration around March of last year. I ran them for the first time in the Sunday Legacy event at GP Brussels and never looked back. Both Block sets to come out over the past two years have done nothing for Zoo's game but sped it up. SHards of Alara brought Wild Nacatl, making Zoo playable, and then Zendikar brought Steppe Lynx a year later. SoM didn't hold much, but there's little room for another good to awesome one drop. It was just funny how you called troop out, so I ran with itQuote:
Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney
Yeah, we've all played Steppe Lynx and know about what comes with him. I just remember Lynx making me mulligan more. All of sudden I needed W on turn one, preferably without fetching, and to hit my land drops on turns I wanted him to bash. It sounds easy, but it can lose you games. I played Naya Sligh for a long while myself, and learned all about how fast that deck could go. In time I found that I was despising my own Steppe Lynxes about 1/6th of the time they were part of my plan, because ripping fetchlands is actually fairly difficult. Swinging for 2 is just okay, and you can't count on Sylvan Library always being in play. I just hated the luck factor. Noble Hierarch is a safer, more consistant plan, which can be built around. Also, 4 KOTR and 2 Elspeth is not a bunch of cards at 3/4cc.
I'm glad you brought this up. Teeg and Canonist have one basic application, which is to stop Storm decks. That is a narrow purpose. I suppose Teeg is a bit more versatile, but not nearly as much as Meddling Mage. Mage comes in against many decks, has applications against every combo deck, and can stop more cards. MM can name anything. Show and Tell, Natural Order, Buried Alive, Swords to Plowshares, Counterbalance, Brainstorm, Top, Pernicious Deed, Innocent Blood, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Tarmogoyf, Dreadnought/Stifle, Cabal Therapy, Breakthrough, Firespout, Perish, Jitte, whatever card would hit you the hardest. 2cc ONLY matters against the decks killing you turn 1/2. He faces the same 2cc problem against storm as Teeg and Canonist, while being pretty fantastic against other decks. You have to consider the rogue factor, people expect to be able to play their cards against Zoo, and MM can be unexpected. It's also quite easy to board them in, because they're only bad against Aggro, and Chain Lightning/ Lavamancer make excellent subs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonic_Attorney
Last weekend I went to a Top 4 split of a 500 euro tournament rocking Wild Nacatl.
Here's the 75 I registered:
4 Nacatl
3 Lynx
4 Lavamancer
4 Pridemage
4 Goyf
4 KotR
4 Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 CHian lightning
2 Library
4 Path
2 Fireblast
10 Fetch
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
SB:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroblast
1 REB
2 Teeg
3 O-ring
3 MTB
2 Grip
For a meaty tournament report, here's a good read
I've been trying to tweak my Zoo deck, how did you feel about the 20 land count especially with 3 lynx? I am currently running 23, and if I could comfortably cut 2 lands for spells that seems good!
Wouldn't change a thing. I mulliganed a lot which was unusual, but normally my deck likes me and making the land drops isn't a problem. More often than not I'll end the game with five lands on the board, and I've also hard cast Fireblast on several occasions. It suites me, but others might find it a problem
@jandax: I looked at your list and if it works for you I'm impressed, but I am scared of that manabase with 4 KotR and only 20 lands. Congratulations on your finish!
I was scared too, but like I said my deck must like me, cuz over the past year 20 land has been ideal. KotR is just a beating. I used to have the standard two I copied from the 'net when I built the deck, then found room for a third, and now after a year of playing it and testing it, and luckily placing more than once with it, I can confidently say this list is 100% tuned. For me, that is. Sometimes, just getting over one's fear will open doors otherwise shut. Try it out man, you might just like it.
One thing you might want to try that I recently changed in my build is 3 sylvan library. that card is just too damn good not to have 3 of, if you resolve that against control its usually game over! I used to play it as a 2 of but wouldn't play with less than three for any reason now. I also have been a big fan of the 5 sword effects in the main and 1 in the board. my meta game is pretty aggressive though, but I have loved playing with at least 6 sword effects in some combination of board and main.
You should usually beat Control, more often than not. Something about a bunch of early beats with burn to the dome in the midgame gives those decks fits.Quote:
One thing you might want to try that I recently changed in my build is 3 sylvan library. that card is just too damn good not to have 3 of, if you resolve that against control its usually game over!
jandax.. from your report:
Not sure I agree with this. From what I know, late game is where the goblin player wants to be because of cards like Ringleader, SGC, matron etc. I suppose if you meant "better" as "more consistent" then I'd be slightly more inclined to agree, but even then I think goblin's ability to just end the game off the top is a lot more important than zoo's ability to draw beaters and burn.Quote:
Zoo, thanks to its consistency is a better top-decker than Goblins.
Im pretty sure I'm going to switch from Path to Swords. The lifegain can be easily mitigated but sometimes that extra basic for them is a game breaker. My meta plays a few basics (aka not combo dominant) so Path is in a way hurting me more than helping me. And I've seen people running three libraries, maybe I'll give that a shot too.Quote:
Originally Posted by justjake54
To me, better is synonymous with more consistent. Sure, all those ceatures you mentioned bring about more card advantage for Goblins. But, that card advantage can only be capitalized at a later point, provided one of the haste lords is already hanging around. And also, there are a few cards that are absolute duds in Goblins, where in Zoo even lands are live draws thanks to Steppe Lynx, Horizon Canopy, and to an extent Grim Lavamancer and KotR. Personally, when I enter thsi match up, it's about getting bigger guys on the table. Trading one of mine for a few of theirs when they're low on life is a good deal. Beaters and burn are the keys to the match up, they're the reach Zoo needs to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by naarou
Anyone planning on adjusting their list now that two SCG opens have somewhat established the metagame?
It's not established, it's a bit more predictable. Aether Vial is hotsauce right now, I'm hoping Matt Elias will pick up Zoo again and win one like he did this time last year.
My teammates and I have been laying quite a bit on MODO with an aggressive Zoo list we whipped up.
Due to the format being still a bit in limbo, we decided to just be the aggressor and came up with this:
TIME POLICE ZOO
Aka, CABS (Cats And Boo-boo Spells)
4 Speedy Gonzales
3 Kitten
4 Little Cat
3 Big Cat
4 Big Poppa
3 Highway to Hell
3 The Reaper
4 Boom
4 Zap
3 Kiss 'em bye bye
2 Captain Cantrip
2 The old 3-for-1, aka the red time walk
1 Trusty Rusty
2 Everest
1 Elves dot land
4 Kilimanjaro
1 Tornado Valley
4 Sahara
1 If you want blood, you've got it
2 Kird Ape's den, Aka Dave Feinstien's house
3 Little Cat's Dojo
1 Lion Country
1 Library of Savandria
Sideboard:
2 Ouphes, I win
2 Grandpa
1 Librarian
3 Wrath of Satan
3 Old Sparky
2 REB
2 Grip it and Rip it
The deck is fast. Blazingly fast, but still has the resiliancy of zoo. The MVP is Goblin Guide. Blue mages never counter him, and he in return, kills them. He is criminally underrated, and I have won just as many games on the back of him as I have on the back of tarmogoyf. Hellspark is there as a way to force through the last little bits of damage to get our opponent in burn range. I'm not particularly found of him, but he does his job, and steals a lot of games just by coming out of nowhere, and dodging firespout and other wrath effects. Magma jet is there, mainly because the Magic online meta is run by a bunch of x-1 and x-2 creatures. It also scrys for 2, which is pretty much drawing a card with this deck. Fireblast is there to end games. We refer to it as the red time walk, because it just finishes things up a turn earlier.
In the SB, old sparky is there for the elves and affinity decks that are all over the place on modo. they also come in vs ad naus and spring tide. Wrath of satan is particulary good against decks that try to gain life, or play moat effects. It allows you to just sit the game out and then just wait until they get into burn range, and it's my second favorite sb card, second only to : Ouphes, I win. We've had a few close calls playing against burn, and decided we'd finally give up some sb slots for it. you pretty much win when he resolves. He's also there for the Zoo mirror. Our testing that our MU against zoo comes down to 2 things: Either a Race, or an attrition war. Finks allows you to win both, and is the sideboard MVP.
What do you guys think?