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Originally Posted by CptHaddock
That is a absolutely sick hand, just need to hit one mana source. This deck does not mull spectacularly well, and your 6 is almost guaranteed to be worse.
I came in 10th at eternal extravaganza with the prisonish version.
Lost my win and in to stupid miracles with like 10 basics and MD back to basics. Felt like the most miserable match up ever.
I have no idea how to beat that deck.
Besides Sulfuric vortex, we straight lose to Energy Field (with RiP out). Found that out last sunday
Moon Stompy had a really solid run at EE7, good work guys! 10th+11th place is a good finish for this size...
1. Eli Kasis - Turbo Depths
2. Patrick Owens - Burn
3. Sean Friffith - Czech Pile
4. Daniel Miller - Miracles
5. Michael Woiten - ANT
6. Jack Wang - ANT
7. Eetai Ben-Sasson - Red and Taxes
8. James Baxter - ANT
9. Bob Huang - Grixis Delver
10. Warren Liem - Moon Stompy
11. Anthony Loman - Moon Stompy
12. Andy Alt - Grixis Delver
13. Michael Mapson - Esper Delver
14. Michael Keller - Dredge
15. Ben Katz - BUG
16. Joe Brennan - BUG
By the way, what do you guys think about a list with 4 Quicksmith Rebell MD? I would replace 4 Mountain with 4 Great Furnace to support the consistancy of Quicksmith in this case. I´m just not sure how this change in the manabase would impact the susceptibility for oposing Wastelands or something. There are often games where we just can land a T2 Moon effect so I love it to open with Mountain go T2 Sol land + Moon to play around Wasteland, I think there will be games where I have to open with Furnace and get Wastelanded which can hurt us...On the other side we have a super strong Quicksmith, I really like this card and was very pleased with it. Legacy has just so many dudes which die to a classic shock and on a empty board he pushes for 5 damage each turn which is not thaaaat worse than Rabblemaster. He also works much better under Bridge or when the oponent has a stupid 2/2 dude on the board.
What do you guys think about this change?
My current list for reference:
14 Creatures
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Quicksmith Rebel (Played 2 Pia + Kiran Nalaar before)
2 Hazoret the Fervent (Kicked the 2 Jaya for this dude)
27 Spells
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Fiery Confluence
4 Chrome Mox
19 Lands
7 Mountain
4 Great Furnace (4 additonal Mountain before)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Kozileks Return
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Abrade
2 Sudden Shock
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Trinisphere
The sideboard is now focussed on beating DnT + Delver decks, I played the full 4 Fallout before because the uncountable ability is very important vs Delver but RR plus the damage can be a problem from time to time, Kozileks return is better vs DnT because of devoid and just costs R so I made a solid 2/2 split to stay flexible vs both.
Same goes for the 2/2 split of Abrade and Sudden Shock vs those MU´s. The uncountable ability is just so mighty vs Delver and also really solid vs DnT because it shuts down the whole Flickerwhisp/Mother/Vial/SFM shenagians...I found Sulfur Elemental good vs DnT but not really more than that tbh, if we need to wipe the board with Fiery Confluence or a boarded sweeper he dies too and he cant get around a Batterskull/Revoker or whatever...
So that's not 100% true. It is certainly a painful combo but if you have 1 of 2 sideboard cards you can escape it. If you have Chaos Warp you can warp your way out of it. Additionally, if you have null rods or needles (or i guess now spyglasses), you can name helm and try to get a chalice on 4. This seems weird but I have decked several people after they RiP/Energy Fielded me because if you just pile on all of your lock pieces and have a way to get milled out by helm, they often can't win and are likely lower on cards in deck than you are. This has happened enough that it actually seems like a legit plan if you can't disrupt them before it goes down.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
This guy had land tax going so yeah i see your line of play as being the only way to win. Anarchy would also pseudo help bc it would nuke the rip and thus energy field would go to the graveyard. Was my first time seeing the deck in a tournament. Chaos warp and ratchet bomb are options for permanent removal
I'd like to confirm a few things.
Independent of whether to mull that specific hand, I thought this deck DOES mull well. My understanding of a deck that mulls well is a deck that doesn't need a great number of cards to win: it only needs a few, targeted, powerful cards for a given matchup. That deck can then sacrifice raw card count for getting the bombs that it needs. 8Moon is exactly that sort of deck. If you can T1 Chalice or Trinisphere, that's often enough of a tempo swing that you can claw back from your mull-to-4 opening. I'd love to hear any reasoning to the contrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by beebles
If you're talking about the cannons in the quote, how are you playing exiled land? The card says you can cast an exiled non-land card. Lands exiled with the Cannons stay exiled, unless something else is going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTurgeon
+1 I also think this deck mulls good for the same reasons you mentionedQuote:
Originally Posted by kirbysdl
Have won on multiple mulls to 4. Sounds like a case of the Mondays
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First off, congrats beebles! :wink:
Secondly, I've found this deck mulligans decently (better than most) and if both players mulligan, we are generally favored in the cripple fight.
My reasoning is exactly what has already been stated. If we land a Moon or Chalice on the first turn, it is likely we've nullified several cards in the opponent's hand (which is arguably like making them mulligan to 4 in many cases).
Awesome finish Beebles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
I disagree with this deck being easy mulling. You need a lot of mana to really get going - basically 3 for everything you cast, up to 4 depending on the build. I curve out at 3 tops, except for 3 cards, and I can mull to 6, but not 5, depending on what I end up with in hand. If you mull into Tomb + Chalice, and Chalice resolves (maybe half the time?), then you can slow the game enough to draw the lands you need to catch up on board state. Otherwise, it's basically 3-4 cards to get to 3 mana for your main heavy-hitters. Tomb + City are card advantage for you, too, and if you mull but don't hit them, get pwned basically.
Jaya Ballard destroys blue permanents. You also have the options of Pyroblast/REB/Active Volcano if you don't mind the non-bo with chalice. Chaos Warp is probably the most useful though as I can imagine it being useful against other decks too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I think Chaos Orb is the cleanest answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by NormalGuy
I like this guyQuote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
Moving on: as a long proponent of goblin stompy I'm pretty sure it's had it's day. In the face of a tempo oriented meta (like mine with delver and combo all over) I'm fairly sure that running clunky four drops isnt the way to have fun in a tournament. Prison however is better positioned to work in a tempo metagame. It runs more value cards that aren't as susceptible to the opponent's strategy as running out rabblemasters and moggcatchers to get bolted, fire'd, plowed, decayed, farted at. While synergistic the goblin build is a blast to play but fragile. So moving forward i like leaning on Quicksmith Rebel and maindecl bridge. With proxies, i also like Sorcerous spy glass. It'd be wonderful if it cantripped but I'm happy with the info it provides. In the early game it shuts off things like DRS and fetchlands and in the late game its a target for QSR or it shuts off their wincon ect. Its easily another hate piece that buys us time to develope faster than the opponent. It's not any radical development but I'm happy with this list:
4 Magus
4 Moon
4 chalice
3 3ball
3 spy glass
3 bridge
4 Chandra
4 QSR
2 fiery confluence
2 hazoret
4ssg
4 chrome mox
11 mountain
8 sol land
In the sideboard there is a smattering of extra confluences and the 4th bridge, gy hate, and matchup specific cards. With this configuration you can easily board out groups of cards and bring in supplements or silver bullets without affecting the gameplan much.
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I totally get what you're saying about Moggcatcher. It's a 7 mana tutor effect, one that's fairly easy to Bolt (a little tougher to Decay). It's a lot of investment to try to win the game. I think it's still fairly fine, at least in theory, because you're ideally locking out your opponent one way or another, and maybe a ham sandwich could get there at that point. I don't think Moggcatcher is great without the lock, but I think it's a rare tutor effect in Red, and still deserves consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Rabbles is another matter altogether. I'd dropped Rabblemaster T1, and if it resolves, I win at least 75% of those games. I won a match vs BR Reanimator based on that (which is a horrible, horrible MU for us). Rabblemaster is another Moon effect for me, another R2 spell that spells "gg" to me. Rabbles gets the Force often enough, and even when bolted, I get a dude on the play. Add Jitte, and now your opponent's on the back foot again.
QSR takes time to set up, an artifact and another mana. Rabble is just another T1 play for a deck that makes big T1 plays that set the pace of the game. I personally like that flow better.
And also, to reiterate, Bridge gives your opponent a lot of time to draw their outs. Even if you're dealing 2 dmg a turn, how many draws does your opponent get to find an answer? 8, 9 cards? Sometimes you have Bridge and no pressure, even. I'm a strong believer that every deck has an out to Prison locks, and you should close out the game as soon as you can after you land a piece. It's not going to last that long.
I only run 2 Chaos Orb, both in the SB. Eh, it's okay.
I hope you mean Chaos Warp, because Orb is banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogger42
I'm going to have to disagree with you on bridge, I find it's one of the best cards in the deck. It's pretty easy to attack with your dudes through bridge and prevent your opponents guys from being able to attack back.
I agree with QSR being to slow/difficult to setup, I didn't really like it when I tested it.
I'm currently running a 2/2 split of Rabblemaster and Hanweir Garrison, and they are both really strong but Rabblemaster has some annoying downside so I think I'm going to switch to 4 Garrison and move some Kozilek Return to the mainboard. Garrison doesn't die to Return, and you don't have to attack with the tokens he creates which can be important to leave back blockers sometimes. I also have 2 hangarback's in which I'll leave because they synergize well with sweepers too.
I've also been eyeing up Cunning Sparkmage or Goblin Sharpshooter, but I'm pretty sure they aren't good enough.
The next iteration of my list is going to be something like this:
11 Mountain
8 Sol Land
4 SSG
2 Chrome Mox
4 Magus
4 Moon
4 Chandra
4 Chalice
3 Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Garrison
2 Jaya Ballard
3 Hangarback Walker
I was just looking over the Ixalan cards, and noticed that Captain Lannery Storm is pretty insane mana ramp. It looks pretty easy to get to 5-7 mana on turn 2 which could open up some possibilities. What do you guys think?
PSA: The new walker rule is in effect on MTGO.
IMO Captain Lannery Storm is great. Also, I really think it's time for Ghirapur Aether Grid in this deck with Sorcerous Spyglass around.Quote:
Originally Posted by NormalGuy
And yes I meant Chaos Warp lol phonetically similar to orb and I wasn't really sharp :p
Oh, and I know it's slow, but Treasure Map doesn't trigger city of traitors and gives a lot of gas. Not sure if that's needed but still interesting imo
If QRS is slow and therefore not a good addition shouldn't treasure cove fall under the same logic?Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar
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Oh. That makes me a little sad, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruizar