[Primer] Nic Fit

I think you're right on little Sigarda. I wasn't going to replace, but play it alongside the other Sigarda. The token production was really what caught my eye, but you helped me see that it isn't an overwhelm kind of deck. It plays hard-to-answer threats that go over the top of Deed and other creatures in the format.

Honestly, I'll probably just copy/paste your sideboard. I have everything in there. I really wanted to squeeze in Bitterblossom into the board, it seems very good in grindy matchups like Miracles.

Now hear me out with this one: Doran, the Siege Tower. I was noticing that many of my threats have a bigger toughness than power, which isn't a big deal really (the only exception being Witness.) Then I was thinking of a replacement for Thragtusk (because I was already playing 4 Rhinos.) Doran makes everything better, even Deathrite Shaman gets to attack for 2 with Doran. The final reason for Doran, and I think probably the best one, is that it makes True-Name Nemesis look utterly foolish attacking for only 1/blocking for 1 each turn. I'm pretty sure the Rhinos will trample right over that and give a big 'fuck you'. This is the kind of jank that makes me wake up in the morning. I will be trying out one as a GSZ target.

Has anybody else tried this?

Cool. Board aggressively. When figuring out what to board out, think about which of your cards are easily answered by what your opponent plays (I like to board out Tireless Tracker vs. anything that runs Bolt, for instance. Fast decks "answer" slow cards like Sigarda, so board her out there) and whether or not you want to board out 1 or 3 Explorers or want to keep them all. I tend to board out 3 vs. combo decks. As for boarding stuff in, again think about what can bother your opponents' plans. Pithing Needles vs. planeswalkers or other stuff that use a lot of activated abilites (D&T comes to mind) for instance. Board in Lost Legacy whenever your opponent plays cards you really don't want to see (which is quite often, really).

So my board looks like this ATM (I just swapped a Golgari Charm for a Toxic Deluge.) I'll keep in mind the sideboard strategies you just mentioned as well.

3x Duress
3x Lost Legacy
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Golgari Charm
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Pithing Needle


EDIT: Wait, no Chokes? What's your take on Choke?

Don't have them. Should be fine though. Wouldn't know what exchanges to make.

I'll probably cut 1x Duress (playing a Thoughtseize main) and maybe put a Deluge main over a Decay (2x Decay main ATM.) That opens up 2 slots for Choke.

Doran? Come on man, I can't resist...lol.

Hello everybody,
after long pause i would like to jump back to nic fit. Not really for tournament purposes, but rather for fun and playing with friends to have a break from legacy stereotyp. (Iam playing Elves for yeeears...)

I came with this list. I would like to hear your suggestions to the list.

Creature (16)
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Merciless Executioner
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Siege Rhino
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Veteran Explorer

Artifact (2)
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Planeswalker (1)
1x Nissa, Vital Force

Land (20)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath

Enchantment (4)
2x Evolutionary Leap
2x Sylvan Library

Instant (2)
2x Abrupt Decay

Sorcery (15)
4x Cabal Therapy
1x Diabolic Intent
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Lingering Souls
1x Painful Truths
2x Thoughtseize
2x Toxic Deluge

Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Choke
1x Containment Priest
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Orzhov Pontiff
2x Pernicious Deed
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Thoughtseize

The goal is not to be little bit independent from Veteran and be able to do something even without 5-6 manas. On the other hand i would like to stick with some spicy cards unsual in legacy.

Well, the list is too low on land. You only run 19 (Dryad Arbor isn't a land for deck building purposes), you should run around 22. The Evolutionary Leaps are a poor fit for this particular type of build, you aim to gradually expand your board state, not recycle it. The lone Thalia and Merciless Executioner seem very misplaced as well. The MD Gaddock Teeg can seriously mess with your own gameplan, I think you're better off with it in your SB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Well, the list is too low on land. You only run 19 (Dryad Arbor isn't a land for deck building purposes), you should run around 22

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Agree, i forget to put Karakass and maybe add one more fetch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

. The Evolutionary Leaps are a poor fit for this particular type of build, you aim to gradually expand your board state, not recycle it.

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Hm, on paper it looks good. Give you another way how to sac Veteran.
Help you dig deeper for response - sac vets, tokens from Lingering souls.
Give you card advantage if opponent use removal spells
and so on. I dont know how it perfoms live. But again, seems solid to me on paper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

The lone Thalia and Merciless Executioner seem very misplaced as well

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What u suggest as replacement? Maybe Eternal Witness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

The MD Gaddock Teeg can seriously mess with your own gameplan, I think you're better off with it in your SB.

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There are only 3 cards in entire deck witch are anticombo with Teeg => 3x Zenith. Maindeck Teeg give you at least some chance with decks like storm. I would say its more or less call of meta.
Edit: I totaly forgot Nissa O.o

Thank you for quick response man, appreciate it! :)

I've been playtesting the 4Rhino list for a few games, and I have to say, it's really fun. I am still making mistakes, but for the most part I think it will pay off with practice.

How do you *not* always get Siege Rhino with GSZ? lol...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

What u suggest as replacement? Maybe Eternal Witness.

...

There are only 3 cards in entire deck witch are anticombo with Teeg => 3x Zenith. Maindeck Teeg give you at least some chance with decks like storm. I would say its more or less call of meta.
Edit: I totaly forgot Nissa O.o

Thank you for quick response man, appreciate it! :)

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You're welcome! Well, I'd run GSZ #4 for starters. Didn't see you only ran 3. And Eternal Witness is never bad. Getting back an equipment can be pretty damn good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I've been playtesting the 4Rhino list for a few games, and I have to say, it's really fun. I am still making mistakes, but for the most part I think it will pay off with practice.

How do you *not* always get Siege Rhino with GSZ? lol...

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Quite often I find myself thinking "Well, I could go and get this, or that and then I can... Or I just start smashing face with a Siege Rhino". I started getting much better results when I figured that one out. Don't try and do anything fancy, just drop a Rhino and turn it sideways. Don't durdle, just go straight for the throat and force your opponent to deal with your gameplan instead of the other way around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Quite often I find myself thinking "Well, I could go and get this, or that and then I can... Or I just start smashing face with a Siege Rhino". I started getting much better results when I figured that one out. Don't try and do anything fancy, just drop a Rhino and turn it sideways. Don't durdle, just go straight for the throat and force your opponent to deal with your gameplan instead of the other way around.

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I agree! The drain is super relevant, too. My one concern, as I played against a UW Delver/Standstill brew, is that I lean on Pernicious Deed pretty hard. Therapy and Explorer do their thing and I have all the mana I need, but my opponent was pretty savvy, basically just Force-ing my Deeds (three of them, one after I witness-ed it back) and getting in over the top with Delver. I didn't have enough mana to get Sigarda, and even if I did my GSZ's were usually getting countered as well. I would bait the counters with Therapy and Deed, then try for GSZ to outmatch their Delvers.

Quick question: I brought in Teeg g2 after winning g1, to offset Force/Misdirection/Disrupting Shoal (deck was pretty sweet actually) but took it out g3, which I think is correct. Do we board in Teeg only for Combo/Miracles? Boarding it in for a tempo matchup seems kinda bad.

Hello Everyone,

A while back I ran through about 6 weeks worth of Nic Fit variants, and while it led to some truly unwinnable piles, it was a blast.

So, like last time, if anyone has a variant they would like tested, or just a card to jam somewhere, let me know. I usually play locals on Wednesday and will update on a regular basis. This is less about playing streamlined decks, and more so about experimenting with the fun of's that never quite make lists.

@Mr. Safety: No Teegs vs. Tempo

I figured...Thanks.

I really want to try Shalai in this deck.


4 Veteran Explorer
3 DRS
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Shalai
1 Spiritmonger
1 Thragtusk

4 GSZ
4 Therapy
3 Path to Exile
3 Decay
3/2 Deed
0/1 Toxic Deluge
2 Sylvan Library
1 Mirris Guile
0/1 Diabolic Intent
1/0 Painful Truths
2 Liliana the Last Hope

21 Lands w/ 2 Tower, 1 Taiga

//
2 Choke
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Damping Sphere
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Lost Legacy
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Blood Moon

Any Lands hate suggestions? Other suggestions?

Matt

Hello boys!
After some testing and reconsidering of your suggestions i changed my list little bit. And again, any input welcomed!

Creature (16)
2x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Merciless Executioner
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Siege Rhino
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Veteran Explorer

Sorcery (14)
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Lingering Souls
1x Painful Truths
2x Thoughtseize
2x Toxic Deluge

Land (21)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath

Artifact (3)
1x Batterskull
1x Birthing Pod
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Instant (2)
2x Abrupt Decay

Enchantment (2)
2x Sylvan Library

Planeswalker (2)
2x Nissa, Vital Force

Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Choke
1x Crop Rotation
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Lost Legacy
1x Orzhov Pontiff
2x Pernicious Deed
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Swords to Plowshares


Explenation of my Thoughts
Creatures:
Deathrite Shaman - Mana acceleration, gravehate, life gainer -> thats all in 1cmc package.

Eternal Witness - Zenithable Regrowth leaving 2/1 body to carry equipment, fuel for Therapy or Pod

Merciless Executioner - It was welcomed card every game i draw him. Could help you sac Veteran to mana acceleration, Kill Merid Ledge and other anoying stuff. With Pod/REcruiter his value criticly rised up.

Meren of Clan Nel Toth - This card is just amazing, unfortunatly there are too many Deathrites shamans around. Same fate as Witness. I run just 2x deluge and 2x Decay so its not that easy get rid of DtS.

Qasali Pridemage - Some prefers Recklamation sage, i dont. Sage is dead card if you dont need his ability, Pridemage bring 2/2 body and exalted (but its nonbo with Pod-> break chain if sacrificed)

Recruiter of the Guard - Spicy card, help you find answers, especialy after SB. In main search for Witness, DtS/Veteran, Executioner, Ooze or Stoneforge.

Scavenging Ooze - Ooze is just Ooze... gravehate, lifegain, could be big

Siege Rhino - 4/5 trampler? yes please! Extra Lightning helix? Yes please!

Sigarda, Host of Herons - 5/5 finisher. She is awesome. She dont like deluge or terminuses.

Stoneforge Mystic - Stoneforge is littlebit slow, but can help you develop your board event if you dont have much mana and u r not that depended on Veteran.

Veteran Explorer - Mana acceleration. He don't like Terminus or Swords to Plowshares. So you need multiple ways ho to sac him: Phyrexian Tower, Cabal therapy, Pod, Executioner.

Sorcery:
Cabal Therapy - Discard and combo with vet

Green Sun's Zenith - next ,,3 copies" of Vet, DtS, Ooze, Pridemage, Witness, Rhino, Meren, Sigarda

Lingering Souls - This card is awesome, i love it. Excelent equipment carriers, Merid Ledge ,,mazers" or Delver killers. Answer even against sweepers with flashback.

Painful Truths - 3 mana 3 cards, loose 3 lifes. Sometimes its good, sometimes it bad. Could be 3th Lingering souls, but i'll give it a shoot.

Thoughtseize - 6 discards mainboard give you higher chances against combo decks. Protection against Couterspells for your ,,bombs". Pair with Therapy make Therapy more deadly. If u r in more fair meta then i would switch it for 2x Swords to Plowshares.

Toxic Deluge - I prefer in this lsit Deluge over Deed because of DtS, equipments, libraries... and its faster, aaand can kill griselbrand/Emrakul, Gurmag Angler/Tombstalker.

Artifacts
Batterskull - I have dilema if want to play sword of fire and ice or Batterskull. I picked Batterskull, because dont need body ready for equip on the battlefield, is superpesky for miracles, lifelink can save you against faster decks (UR delver, Burn)

Birthing Pod - More spice for our deck. I love toolkits in mtg and this can help you search bullets you need. Could be switched for Recurring nightmare if you want, but i would rather be less dependent on graveyard. Next adept could be Evolutionary leap.

Umezawa's Jitte - Typical package of Stoneforge Mystiq. Jitte can kill creatures, Jitte can boost presure, jitte can give you lives. Jitte is awesome.

Instants:
Abrupt Decay - It's a dilema if 2x swords to Plowshares or 2x Abrupts. Now i stick with abrupts. Its more universal but you lose posibility to kill Meride Ledge, Griselbrand, Gurmag and so on.

Enchantment:
Sylvan Library - If u don't run blue, its pretty hard to control your topdeck. We are running 4x vet, 3x Zenith, Recruiter, Pod, 2x SToneforge and 8x fetchland to shuffle. And against control decks card advantage is a key and you have to care about your lifes that much and go ham.

Planeswalker:
Nissa, Vital Force - I love this girl. Others Planeswalkers dont have this bomb effect when come to play. Nissa can hit your opponent for 5. Or return desperatly needed pernament from grave. It's a question if i want to play 2x 5cmc planeswalker over second 5cmc creature because of Pod where single Sigarda isn't that great. On the other hand, Nissa isn't lost on terminus or Deluge.

Sideboard
Bojuka Bog - gravehate, bullet for Crop Rotation canon

Choke - blue hate

Crop Rotation - Second Karakas, Second Bojuka Bog

Diabolic Edict - get rid of big guy

Ethersworn Canonist - hate against all fasters deck

Gaddock Teeg - Combo hate

Lost Legacy - Combo hate

Orzhov Pontiff - Bullet for Recruiter or Pod. Good against DnT, Maverick, Elves, Grixis Delver

Pernicious Deed - Sweeper for MU when Deluge is not enough

Surgical Extraction - gravehate

Swords to Plowshares - against creature decks, against Dark Depths decks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Any Lands hate suggestions? Other suggestions?

Matt

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Hi Matt,
What about crop rotation? Karakas and wasteland in SB could improve your chances in land mu.
The Needle Thespian's Stage could buy you some time (until they find Krosan grip/Ancient Grudge).
Lingering Souls buy you 4 turns. I just won the game against Turbodepths. T1 blind therapy to his Hexmage, T2 Veteran and flashback Therapy to hit his zenith, T3 lingering souls + Flashback :)

Went 3-2-1 at the SCG team event with ScapeWish.

4x Veteran Explorer
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Regisaur Alpha
1x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan
1x Carnage Tyrant
2x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Pernicious Deed
2x Sylvan Library
4x Burning Wish
2x Scapeshift
2x Bayou
4x Badlands
4x Taiga
3x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Mountain
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

Sideboard:
1x Scapeshift
1x Thoughtseize
1x Collective Brutality
1x Lost Legacy
1x Slaughter Games
1x Innocent Blood
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Pyroclasm
1x Toxic Deluge
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Pulse of Murasa
2x Lightning Bolt

Wins:
*Storm - Died G1, as you do. Then Surgical on Tendrils G2, and Surgical on Infernal Tutor, Wish->Lost Legacy on Tendrils G3.
*Manaless Dredge - Scavenging Ooze MVP both games; was a 14/14 G1, and took over G2 to the point that the Surgical in my opener was never cast.
*Grixis Delver - Lost G1 to double Pyromancer, all the disruption. G2 actually got Explorer going, Wished for Pyroclasm to wipe the board, then eventually cleared the way for a lethal Wish->Scapeshift with a Therapy. G3 had Explorer again, and cleared the way for a Carnage Tyrant with Wish->Slaughter Games on Diabolic Edict.
Draw:
*Miracles - Only had R/B mana G1, cast Cabal Therapy and Wish (Forced) and died to Mentor. Didn't play out extra Badlands, and had opponent boarding for combo (Reanimator mostly). G2 got to Wish->Lost Legacy to take 3 Jaces, two Deeds for two Mentors, then navigated known removal so his Terminus matched up against Prime Time (getting 2 Valakuts) and I got to GSZ him right back out.
Losses:
*BUG Control - G1 Sylvan Library saw 3 lands, shuffle 3 more lands, and tied to TNN and Deathrite. G2 had him at 15 with a Library and Strix vs. Thragtusk. Drew a Decay; decided to hit Strix to get aggressive (felt like all the cantrips left him advantaged in a top-deck war - was maybe incorrect, and if he was at 16 instead of 15 might have hit Library). He drew Jace into blockers, cleared them with Deed, but couldn't quite get the Jace off the board before he fatesealed me out.
*Turbo Depths - Can't clock him fast enough before he gets around my disruption. Had Wish->Innocent Blood potentially, but he went for it end step both times. G2 Library saw 3 lands, shuffle 3 more lands.

Only the Depths games felt bad. Not sure I'd change anything with the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

2 Choke
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Damping Sphere
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Lost Legacy
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Blood Moon

Any Lands hate suggestions? Other suggestions?

Matt

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Pithing Needle works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nargoron

Hello boys!
After some testing and reconsidering of your suggestions i changed my list little bit. And again, any input welcomed!

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My suggestions are still very much the same. You're still too low on land (again, Dryad Arbor should not be counted as one), you still want to be at 2 more. I'd still cut the Executioner as any decent Lands pilot will power out Marit Lage on your end step, rendering its intended use invalid. You still want to run 4 GSZ, since consistency is key for this deck. To pile on further, Painful Truths is nowadays obsolete thanks to Tireless Tracker. And I also suggest you cut the Recruiter of the Dawn and Birthing Pod. The former is too slow and your list is not properly set up to exploit the latter while you're also in a format where Kolaghan's Command runs rampant. To round things up, you'll want to run between 4 and 6 spotremoval cards. Otherwise you just fall to the second Delver to come along.

Get your mainboard fixed, then we'll take a look at your sideboard - that also needs quite some work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

You're still too low on land (again, Dryad Arbor should not be counted as one)

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On the other hand my curve is lower then is average nicfit mana curve. But I agree, add one basic could be helpful. If Veteran don't resolve, its hard to get big guys to board. 22 is too much according my testing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

I'd still cut the Executioner as any decent Lands pilot will power out Marit Lage on your end step.

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The probability of killing Merit Lage is low, but not imposible if u have Lingering Souls. But that is a big IF especialy if there are just 2 in my list (I wish to be 3). But cycling Executioner every turn with Meren? Eh... its just too tempting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

You still want to run 4 GSZ, since consistency is key for this deck.

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Can't say anything against this.... its just true :) 8th cop of vet, 5th copy of sigarda, Rhino, Meren, Eternal Witness, Gaddock, Ooze... u r right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

To pile on further, Painful Truths is nowadays obsolete thanks to Tireless Tracker

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Is Tracker really that good? I saw him in action only in turbodepth and he just created 1 clue and died. I can imagine him in maverick (obvious combo with Knight). But in nic fit i can see him only just a nice card in long run games... but this long run games are often against deck with removals and this guy die on every removal on legacy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

And I also suggest you cut the Recruiter of the Dawn and Birthing Pod. The former is too slow and your list is not properly set up to exploit the latter while you're also in a format where Kolaghan's Command runs rampant.

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Kolaghan's Command is played only in czechpile/4c control (whatever u call it). And yea, you have one card to side out because is bad in this MU.
To Recruiter of the Dawn - i just love this card every single game i saw him. But I am not 100% objective (same like pod) because its just soooo much fun to play this card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Echelon

To round things up, you'll want to run between 4 and 6 spotremoval cards. Otherwise you just fall to the second Delver to come along.

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If i go to 4, i will have to cut Thoughtseize. It's more or less meta dependent what u face more often. 2 sword to plowshares in fair meta, 2 thoughtseize in more combo meta.