[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

How many people at a legacy PT would actually own the cards they are playing though? Could be due to SCG predicting more eyeballs on the format but to me it seems more like a coincidence.

Glad I got my beta lands duals instead of stupid blue cards though, seas are for chumps.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

This was brought to my attention and is likely the reason for the hike:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...lds-2017-07-19

Legacy in the PT.

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So why did SCG jack up the prices, just before the PT announcement did come out? This seems suspicious as hell. :really:

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

How many people at a legacy PT would actually own the cards they are playing though?

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I'd guess only a very small amount. Pretty sure the majority of "Pro" players dislike Legacy quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by H

I'd guess only a very small amount. Pretty sure the majority of "Pro" players dislike Legacy quite a bit.

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Citation needed.

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Originally Posted by CptHaddock

Citation needed.

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Anecdotal evidence only, happy to be proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by H

I'd guess only a very small amount. Pretty sure the majority of "Pro" players dislike Legacy quite a bit.

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You're confusing that one with Standard - the format artificially maintained with tournament support by WotC. Let's be honest - who would keep playing this PoS if it had Legacy-tier tournament support? Not many.

I've heard that pros don't like Legacy simply because it's hard to test for; the format is so wide and can be very random so innovation can be difficult. That's why so many of them just pick up a Delver deck or, more commonly, Show and Tell.

You of course get the Legacy experts that pick up Lands, Miracles, or get something new with Leovold BUG, but typically I've heard pros will just pick up a tried and true safe staple list.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

I've heard that pros don't like Legacy simply because it's hard to test for; the format is so wide and can be very random so innovation can be difficult. That's why so many of them just pick up a Delver deck or, more commonly, Show and Tell.

You of course get the Legacy experts that pick up Lands, Miracles, or get something new with Leovold BUG, but typically I've heard pros will just pick up a tried and true safe staple list.

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Sounds like they're a bunch of suckers.

I don't know about the exact % of pros that like Legacy, but I've seen Owen Turtenwald, Reid Duke, Patrick Chapin, LSV, and Paolo Vitor Damo Da Rosa all go on record in some form or another saying that they enjoy Legacy.

It's Modern that the Pros hate among the formats.

Reid Duke and Andrea Mengucci post Legacy videos pretty regularly.

I think there are two types of career pros - the ones who are all-in on the grind and devote all their time preparing for Pro Tours and Grand Prix (Standard, Modern, Draft), and those who just love the game and happen to be damn good so they still play their favorite formats when they can (Legacy, Vintage, Cube), much of the latter group being people who've played the game a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

I've heard that pros don't like Legacy simply because it's hard to test for; the format is so wide and can be very random so innovation can be difficult. That's why so many of them just pick up a Delver deck or, more commonly, Show and Tell.

You of course get the Legacy experts that pick up Lands, Miracles, or get something new with Leovold BUG, but typically I've heard pros will just pick up a tried and true safe staple list.

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lol that must be a joke. Very little changes in legacy and thus it is easy to learn. When a set releases, in legacy you get 2-3 new cards, in standard you get like 2-3 new decks. Sure everything rotates eventually but after playing for a few years you've learned more decks than you'd ever need to know about in legacy.

Innovation isn't difficult because the format is random, it is difficult because the format is mature. The cards used in all decks are among the BEST in the game. You cant get away with playing ANYTHING that is subpar. So sure, its easy to come up with a tier 3 deck, but there is very little opportunity to design a new deck. New decks are driven by the 2-3 cards each set that enter the legacy pool.

Legacy i think, is more about knowing the format and out playing your opponent than having a superior deck.

I get the reserved list inflates prices, but aren’t some of the duel prices skewed in the wrong direction? For example, Living Plane is $153 but all the lesser used duels are below $90 ? (taiga/scrubland/badlands/plateau) And these cards are actually used. (well except plateau) Anyone have an explanation?

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Originally Posted by Moosedog

I get the reserved list inflates prices, but aren’t some of the duel prices skewed in the wrong direction? For example, Living Plane is $153 but all the lesser used duels are below $90 ? (taiga/scrubland/badlands/plateau) And these cards are actually used. (well except plateau) Anyone have an explanation?

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Old School. There's a deck that uses Living Plane, as well as various decks that use lesser known cards on the RL.

http://www.wak-wak.se/9394/archetypes

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Originally Posted by Moosedog

I get the reserved list inflates prices, but aren’t some of the duel prices skewed in the wrong direction? For example, Living Plane is $153 but all the lesser used duels are below $90 ? (taiga/scrubland/badlands/plateau) And these cards are actually used. (well except plateau) Anyone have an explanation?

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You have to compare apples to apples!

It's a Legend's rare with a powerful-but-unique ability (so compare it's price to Eureka, Invoke Prejudice, All Hallow's Eve, and Mirror Universe) that doesn't see any real play in 60-card formats.

The closest card to Living Plane specifies that all Forests become 1/1's. It is a collectible and sees light EDH play in combination with Linvala, Keeper of Silence. It might also get some action in Old School (93/94), but I'm not sure because I do not follow that format.

Edit - Teluin confirmed it sees 93/94 play. My work computer nearly blew up when I clicked that link... Can anyone post the list that plays Living Plane? I'd be curious to see how it is used.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Edit - Teluin confirmed it sees 93/94 play. My work computer nearly blew up when I clicked that link... Can anyone post the list that plays Living Plane? I'd be curious to see how it is used.

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http://i.imgur.com/8d93yfj.jpg

That's what he was linking to but that site is not really link friendly in formatting.

Re: suspicion of SCG acting on tip of a Legacy portion, the answer from Ben Bleiwess : https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/co...today/dkfxcmq/

And just a "random" excerpt :

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8) As always, SCG is in favor of abolishing the Reserve List. We'd rather sell 4x Underground Sea for $100 than one for $400. More people playing = more cards sold = better health for the game long-term. I believe WOTC has made it abundantly clear that they aren't even willing to address the Reserve List at this time - but if they ever were, I'd be happy to lead the charge in favor of getting rid of it.

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The GP announcements today pretty much confirmed that they knew. A PT won't move prices but 6 GPs in the first half of the year featuring at least some Legacy sure could.

When it comes to cards like Living Plane, it's one of the many cards from Legends that's been subject to buyouts due to being Reserved List and also the low print run of the original expansions. That's half the reason obscure cards from Arabian Nights are sky-high in price, too. And as said before, 93/94 demand has also shot stuff up a bit and the format has given speculators a number of targets.

Urza's Bauble now $5-10.

https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/15054

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Urza's testosterone boosters now $5-10.

https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/15054

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That seems high to me.

Speculators gotta speculate.

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Originally Posted by Claymore

Speculators gotta speculate.

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This is probably a three-step process:

1. Mishra's Bauble goes crazy high in price due to Modern play, so at least some people (myself included) look at Urza's Bauble and say, "Well, if I ever want some of these, I'd better grab some at bulk prices now. Who knows what the silly market will do next?" Thus some part of the online stock is depleted. (I use them in a casual Saheeli Oath deck because it plays very nicely with Saheeli, Titan, and Arcane Denial.)

2. Someone top 8s using Urza's Bauble in a legacy deck. I forget which one.

3. Two new groups now go to buy the card: those who didn't know it existed before and those who want to build the deck.

From there, the supply has already been hit and so speculators can easily buy out the whole market. Boom, now it's gonna be a 5 dolla card.

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Originally Posted by MaximumC

This is probably a three-step process:
2. Someone top 8s using Urza's Bauble in a legacy deck. I forget which one.

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I believe it's a W/B Bomberman list that needs as many 0 mana artifacts that are even remotely playable as possible to power up Mox Opal and Monastery Mentor.

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Originally Posted by Ephemeron

I believe it's a W/B Bomberman list that needs as many 0 mana artifacts that are even remotely playable as possible to power up Mox Opal and Monastery Mentor.

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The lists I've seen (keeping in mind that I do not Vintage) actually abuse it with Paradoxical Outcome. I haven't seen any Paradoxical Outcome lists that run Auriok Salvagers, but it wouldn't shock me if people have been making hybrid lists.

It's the bomber man deck mostly. It got on camera over the weekend on SCG and wrecked face

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

The lists I've seen (keeping in mind that I do not Vintage) actually abuse it with Paradoxical Outcome. I haven't seen any Paradoxical Outcome lists that run Auriok Salvagers, but it wouldn't shock me if people have been making hybrid lists.

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People are playing Outcome in Legacy? Who are these savages? :eek:

the trick is just staying current with the new brews before the community at large "discovers" them. i got my baubles about 12 weeks ago for 25 cents each.

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Originally Posted by H

People are playing Outcome in Legacy?

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Vintage

Links:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23383&iddeck=181492
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23026&iddeck=178208
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=22578&iddeck=174457

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

the trick is just staying current with the new brews before the community at large "discovers" them. i got my baubles about 12 weeks ago for 25 cents each.

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I simply bought mine for a bad revolt Zoo deck. Come to find out this terrible card has value now

Hello darkness my old friend.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcyIptW-yIQ

tl, dr: foil Grim Monoliths are now 1k$+

Porphyry Nodes is on the rise! I believe it's underplayed in both Modern and Legacy.

Nodes have been "spiked" multiple times and they never stick.

Nodes is spiking because drop of honey became ridiculous

I don't think Nodes will drop again, especially not the foil ones.

Btw Transmute Artifact going "bye bye".

Awesome. I just sold 2x NM signed Transmutes for $105 for the pair on eBay since after 7 days that's all the bidding reached.....if you guys don't hear from me ever again you now know why. Anyone seen my gun?

i realize that buyouts are going to happen. However, how effective are they at establishing a new price level?

Many of the buyouts are for trash cards that have no foreseeable value. For fringe use, casuals are unlikely to be able to afford them and non casuals don't want them.

So are there really enough purchases at the new price levels or are ppl just jacking up the marketplace because the MTG marketplace is easily manipulated?

Depends on the card...

For instance, MtGStocks says Lifeblood is now a $102 card (up from $4 last week).
It appears the new trend is to buy out garbage unplayable Reserved List cards to 'fear spike' the value. I assume with the hope to sell them at the newly inflated price, but I'm skeptical at how successful this strategy is...

For a card like Transmute Artifact, I'm more apt to believe a higher price will stick because only someone with serious money could attempt a buy-out (and someone with serious money is probably going to invest in stocks, not cardboard). Plus its CMC and ability are useful for stuff like EDH.
So again, I think it depends on the card. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Depends on the card...

For instance, MtGStocks says Lifeblood is now a $102 card (up from $4 last week).
It appears the new trend is to buy out garbage unplayable Reserved List cards to 'fear spike' the value. I assume with the hope to sell them at the newly inflated price, but I'm skeptical at how successful this strategy is...

For a card like Transmute Artifact, I'm more apt to believe a higher price will stick because only someone with serious money could attempt a buy-out (and someone with serious money is probably going to invest in stocks, not cardboard). Plus its CMC and ability are useful for stuff like EDH.
So again, I think it depends on the card. :rolleyes:

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I understand the logic / theory behind why they are doing it but I guess I'd like to know if the buyouts are successful at raising the price or if the cards generally drop back down to original price / close to it within a month / six months.

I think the prices will stay pretty high, but nobody will buy the cards.

That is of course unless we are talking about actual playable cards like Transmute Artifact, which has seen Vintage, Legacy and EDH play.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Depends on the card...

For instance, MtGStocks says Lifeblood is now a $102 card (up from $4 last week).
It appears the new trend is to buy out garbage unplayable Reserved List cards to 'fear spike' the value. I assume with the hope to sell them at the newly inflated price, but I'm skeptical at how successful this strategy is...

For a card like Transmute Artifact, I'm more apt to believe a higher price will stick because only someone with serious money could attempt a buy-out (and someone with serious money is probably going to invest in stocks, not cardboard). Plus its CMC and ability are useful for stuff like EDH.
So again, I think it depends on the card. :rolleyes:

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At least Transmute Artifact is a "somewhat" unique, playable card.

Lifeblood is pretty terrible, especially since Sanctimony exists. Who would spend even $4 on that?

At least, again, Elephant Graveyard and Shahrazad (which also spiked recently) make some sense.