You are going to have a difficult game against BUG Delver and some other decks (UWR Delver, Jund) without Blood Moon. Not sure how important that is to you.
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You are going to have a difficult game against BUG Delver and some other decks (UWR Delver, Jund) without Blood Moon. Not sure how important that is to you.
Really, is it that bad? I'm not a huge fan of Blood Moon in general, I think it's very clunky. I haven't played stoneblade really since before BUG delver was a thing so I haven't tried the matchup a lot, but in theory it shouldn't be too bad? Regarding UWR delver, that I don't see how it should be hard - UWR delver is in my experience just a bad deck. I'm happy to hear arguments for this though.Quote:
Originally Posted by h2o
Regarding Jund, I agree that it's not great, but Jund is all but dead around here. I haven't seen it in a LONG time, so I'm not worried about that.
I
So someone asked a week or so back what north east meta is like. At mythic games in Elmira, Ny there were some miracles , bug delver, grixis delver, show and tell, infect, elves running about.
I built a hybrid list of miracles and uwr stoneforge. It is control with a little more pressure. It canQuote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=82342
(yes I like to promote my list so what :P)
I think 2 arid mesa is where you want to be since it is the worst fetchland. I think would be happy turning one into a basic island . The other can be academy ruins, cut or a basic mountain to help keep removal high against wasteland decksQuote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
I like the hate bears. I run enlightened tutor package to increase bullets I slip in the deck. My targets are ethersworn, rest in peace. ether sworn is stupid good against omnitell especially if you bring in red blast, as you can two for one omniscience show n tell. also I think red elemental blast maybe better off as pyro blast for dig through time synergy. Against omnitell it is probably good to side in supreme verdict, it gives you and answer to show n tell emrakul, and its blue to pitch to force of will. I like to leave force of will in against death and taxes it allows you to counter aether vial, and cataclysm as well as helping you protect stoneforge /equipment against hate cards. I would consider shaving the vendilion clique against death and taxes as the deck runs multiple karakas that make it a not so effective card. against miracles I would cut some lightning bolt(4 if they aren't bringing in monastery mentor, 2 if they are bringing it in/ suspect they bring it in) spell pierce is fantastic against miracles and I recommend it never get count as it helps ward of early counter balance, and mid game ward of jace. The other sideboard strategies based on your current deck build are fine. Good luck :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
I have my theorycrafted list below. I've played a reasonable number of matches with it and it seems fine. Some description, mostly to provide context on my choices:
I like playing a deck with a bunch of cards that are good everywhere, which is what this deck is (for the most part). Most of these cards are always fine to draw and never truly bad. The exceptions are cards that are extremely powerful in some spots that can be found with Dig Through Time.
I like being black for the discard spells, since they're ways to interact with every deck. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek are almost always good. The ability to go turn one Thoughtseize into turn two Meddling Mage in postboard games is often lights out against combo. I think the nonblack versions of stoneblade are virtual nonstarters for me due to issues with beating combo decks. Discard is often an ineffective draw late in a deck that has a tendency to play a long game, but you do have Liliana and Brainstorm to smooth them over.
Stoneblade is very mediocre, since most of the cards are good and none of the cards are amazing. You'll prevent your opponents from doing their gameplan and then grind them out with actual card advantage and superior card quality. Cards like True-Name Nemesis and Myth Realized seem counterintuitive to me here; I'm not really looking for attackers. The maindeck is hopefully set up to be generically reasonably in most matchups, though it's geared more towards creature decks. A consistently mediocre deck is great; you have game in every matchup and you're regularly able to outplay worse opponents. The ceiling here is certainly lower than Delver or Storm or Miracles, but the floor is much h
The sideboard is vaguely transitional. Combo matchups are ones where actually putting on a clock may matter, so the hatebears that actually attack for damage are great. The configuration I've chosen does make me a little weak to Pyroclasm or Massacre, but those are avoidable and I think it makes me way more likely to beat people who don't draw those cards. Sideboarding is fairly straightforward here.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Counterspell
1 Council’s Judgment
1 Lingering Souls
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
2 Dig Through Time
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
Sideboard
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Thoughtseize
3 Meddling Mage
3 Containment Priest
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
You're forgetting that TNN is the best blocker you could ask for against a lot of decks and that it's extremely hard to deal with. IoK in a format defined by DTT and Top seems worse than just running 3 TS and freeing up a slot. Tasigur definitely belongs in Esper shells too.
I totally agree as well. I'm not playing him in my list (simply because it's not pure stoneblade) but if you are running pure esper stone blade then a tasigur is AMAZING!!! I had him in for the first star city event he was legal with positive results. He seems to swing the BUG/RUG match up because he hits the board and you can shrink goyf to smaller than him and just go to town beating face! You do have to watch how many DTT you run with Tasigur also in the list but he's worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
Chris to answer your questions from earlier. 22 land works fine for me because i'm not trying to be Blade Control. My goal is to try and be tempo-aggro and win on turns 5-8. If I can land a jitte and a blossom then I usually can take 5 to 10 damage on turns 3-5 (goys/bolts/etc...) and take control with a flyer or TNN with Jitte equipped. The decks that seem to make it hard for me are Goblins/Merfolk/Elves and decks that get hoards with auto reload pieces like Zenith, Ringleader, etc... Death and taxes is fine for me and I really am trying to get a sound strategy against monoUOmniShow so I can try and handle that match up...
Interesting. I tried running Tasigur when I had a stronger black presence in the deck and was consistently underwhelmed. I often found I would rather have a Lingering Souls, a True-Name, or even a Mentor. His lack of evasion was too problematic for me, and while he does block goyf well, there was very little value when he was removed.
That being said, if you're able to get several activations out of his ability, I could see him potentially start pulling away.
how many dig through time do you guys think best fits the esper stoneblade shell? i am currently playing 1 copy with 2 snapcaster mages and 4 linguering souls - 1 intuition.. (linguering- intuition works best for me over true-name vs maverick-goblins-jund-death and taxes- mirror, or even lands, as ''infinite :P'' blockers for marit lage) i noticed that i needed dig only during late game, and looking at the other control deck, miracle, in lists, they run 1 or 2..
As for what a graveyard can support - I am ran 2 Dig Through Time, 1 Snapcaster Mage, and 4 Deathrite Shaman for a while in a Deathblade build. I am going to try a second Snapcaster for the next two weeks.
This is my same point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
This is a choise.
Anyway UWR and UWB are 2 different types of plain.
Similar but different.
I'm Miracle player, like you, and in past i have play Patriot (UWR Delver tempo): I see the UWR Blade like a solid evolution of Patriot, more strong in actual meta.
LIST:Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
The only cards I don't like in your list is Spell Pierce.
We don't have control about opponent's lands and Spell Pierce lost his power imho.
In my deck (excluding manabase we have 57/60 same cards in maindeck) i play Spell Snare: hard counter.
SIDE:
Why don't you play Blood Moon?
Blood Moon is THE card in our sideboard.
Moon can win alone in some matchups and is one of the best card you have access with the Red.
Idem for Rest in Peace.
This cards are bombs and can win some matchups alone.
In my list I play:
2 Blood Moon
3 Rest in Peace
...but some times, depending on meta, i play 3 Blood Moon (VS MUD or BUG or UGR) with very good results.
Another card I like is Wear Tear over Disenchant.
I play 3 Island, 2 Plains and 1 Mountain for a "solid like a rock" manabase.
The possibility of casting Tear for only W is good vs Choke and Similar.
Anyway you can cast Wear AND Tear for converted mana cost = 3 and escape from different things (Chalice, Counterbalance).
Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
Your side-in and out are good imho.
As for Esper, 2-3 DTT is very reasonable. I play 3 DTT,3SCM+ souls without any problems.
Yeah 3 seems to be the right number of DTT for esper builds is good. But If you want to run Tasigur as an additional threat then I would run only 2 DTT and 1 Tasigur. That's why I chose to go the way of adding additional threats in my build because I thought the control route just was to threat light to really go the distance. Tasigur does help with that some though.
Is there a list that supports Tasigur somewhere to copycat?Quote:
Originally Posted by TnA_Will
I feel like both Esper and Patriot have their advantages, but let us not kid ourselves - Red Blast is big game right now. I feel like that's where you want to be. Thoughtseize is one of my favourite cards, but the advantages of just REB over TS, Souls, and a few others seems overwhelming. Thoughts to the contrary?
-Matt
I would agree if I was playing the Thoughtseize version of Esper. I'm playing an Esper version that would more closely resemble the patriot version BBD ran. Here was an old list of his.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Creatures (10)
4 x Young Pyromancer
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
2 x True-Name Nemesis
Sorcery (12)
4 x Gitaxian Probe
4 x Ponder
4 x Treasure Cruise
Instant (18)
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Force of Will
2 x Spell Pierce
2 x Pyroblast
3 x Lightning Bolt
3 x Swords to Plowshares
Artifact (2)
1 x Batterskull
1 x Umezawa’s Jitte
Land (18)
3 x Volcanic Island
3 x Tundra
4 x Flooded Strand
4 x Scalding Tarn
2 x Arid Mesa
1 x Plains (331)
1 x Island (335)
Sideboard
1 x Pyroblast
3 x Meddling Mage
1 x Hydroblast
1 x Vendilion Clique
2 x Flusterstorm
1 x Supreme Verdict
1 x Council’s Judgment
1 x Grafdigger’s Cage
1 x Wear//Tear
2 x Containment Priest
1 x Electrickery
1 x Wear // Tear
new lists of that version have used DTT as a 3 of and bumped the lightning bolt count from 3 to 4..... I guess I haven't asked the group, what is everyone's opinion on this version of RWU vs Jace/Snapcaster version?
I guess it depends, would you rather thoughtseize/duress/inquisition and have information and force either action or discard, or would you rather sit back? I recently cut my Thoughtseizes & Inquisitions entirely in favor of more mainboard creature hate, but with omni-tell back, at least for now, the hand disruption will most likely be back in the sideboard. And disruption + surgical/extirpate is quite effective. The information gained is also relevant for the builds that tend to skew towards the more controlling aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Then again, with omni-tell back, REBs get that much better.
Unless they are running Boseju, which they seem to be in droves. In which case thoughtseize is way better.Quote:
Originally Posted by waz
Except when they Dig and find both pieces and still get there. Sure, IF they have Boseiju it might be okay, but they can only Boseiju one spell, which is going to be the Show.
-Matt
Just a question from someone who does not play this deck extensively.
From what I understand, the main and maybe only real reason to play Red instead of Black in a UW Stoneblade shell are the red blasts. Outside of that, I'm pretty sure Thoughtseize, DRS, Liliana and what have you easily outweigh cards like Lightning Bolt and Blood Moon.
Now, would it be viable to play Esper, but play a somewhat transitional Red splash out of the sideboard exclusively for some red blasts?
Deathblade lists have been okay playing a Tropical Island for DRS or even an additional Bayou for Abrupt Decay in the past, would playing 1 Volcanic alongside say 3 red blasts be an option for the sideboard? A list with 4 Deathrite Shamans could even somewhat reliably cast the blasts even if the singleton Volcanic got wasted. And the two main decks you want the blasts against, Miracles and Omnitell, which happen to be the best performing decks in the format lately, don't even play Wasteland.
I'm really just curious for opinions on this. It's just something I have always wondered. Why not get the best of both worlds?
EDIT: The list I was thinking about:
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical island
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
2 True-name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Thoughtseize
1 Council's Judgment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Dig Through Time
SB:
1 Volcanic Island
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Thoughtseize
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
2 Containment Priest
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Meddling mage
Any additional feedback on the list is also appreciated.
can you post your list? i am really curiousQuote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_