I want to pick your brains.
What kind of Sbs do you guys currently run?
What Dredge configuration are you running?
What sb cards are most effective? Why?
I'm beginning to think the sideboards are pretty much preferential tech.
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I want to pick your brains.
What kind of Sbs do you guys currently run?
What Dredge configuration are you running?
What sb cards are most effective? Why?
I'm beginning to think the sideboards are pretty much preferential tech.
Call me crazy but for months, I've been brewing a beat down plan using Delver AND DRS to negate Grafdigger's Cage and DRS himself. Yeah, fight fire with fire
I've been using LED Dredge but replaced PImp with Street Wraiths (mainly to deal with Deathrite Shaman). You just need to respond the first DRS activation, and you'll be fine.
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 City of Brass
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Street Wraith
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
3 Breakthrough
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Firestorm
SB: 2 Ingor Chewer
SB: 2 Dread Return
SB: 1 Griselbrand
SB: 1 Flame-kin Zealot
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
My plan against Grafdigger's Cage is Ingot Chewer. Pretty bad and slow, but it has been working. You can still Dredge with Cage online, so just find an Ingot Chewer, cast Golgari Thug to block and put Chewer back on top, then you destroy Cage and profit (?).
Against RIP, just pray that you can Cabal Therapy it away before it drops, or have at least 5~6 tokens in the field already.
I've been trying out some transformational sides, like Dark Depths/Hexmage with a few Dakmor Salvage for consistency, or Painted Stone combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
But really, the only constant cards that have been consistent, and have been in my side for any length of time, has been Firestorm & some ench/art. removal in Claims/Decay's.
For the mirror or other grave decks, I favour Faerie Macabre as it's busy fuckin Icky when you're not looking, it's uncounterable and instant-speed, and you can target multiple graves at the same time to not only protect something from extraction, but also get rid of something elsewhere.
Dredge config currently is 14 mana sources, close to Quad-list except I've been running some 2 Dread Returns with a single Super-G.
Firestorm is an all-star of course.
Abrupt Decay is pretty effective at dealing with problems, and running more mana sources to support it is worth it in my mind.
Other than those two, I've found most other options to be situational.
Yeah the painted stone combo has always crossed my mind, however, the necessity of having to run more lands (which means hitting more blanks while dredging) turned me away. Not to mention that some cards like Bolt, Plow, and other types of removal which can be effective in some fashion against dredge would still be relevant against the painter combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
I normally shy'd away from Firestorm as a SB card, because I was never all too impressed with the card. However, because of decks like BUG Delver and RUG Delver, having the ability to bin Dredgers without fear of countermagic is a plus. Regardless of what people's perception of the deck are we do need to resolve multiple spells i.e. careful study, faithless looting, and LED - all spells that get your engine started. imo slow dredging is playing to lose unless you're on manaless dredge. That is part of the reason I've actually dropped Breakthrough and have replaced it with Street Wraith (great against counter magic, great against Surgical Extraction, and great against DRS activations).
Try replacing PImps for Street Wraith. Keeps Ichorid fed and keeps Breakthrough for those explosive starts. The only downside is that your DDD rate for turn 1 will increase a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
PImp is the weakest slot maindeck, probably. I've only missed it once after the cut, when I bricked on dreding any Narcomoebas in 30 cards, didn't have a body to flashback Therapy and my foe had Rest in Peace waiting for next turn.
hi guys, i'm playing dredge from about 3 months, so now i want give my contribute to the thread. Last night i went to play in a small local tournament and i presented this list:
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
1 Griselbrand
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
3 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 4 Firestorm
SB: 1 Flame-Kin Zealot
Turn 1 vs Merefolk (2-0). G1 pretty easy. G2 i sided out 1 breakthrought, 1 flayer, 1 dread return 1 thug for 1 FKZ 3claim. he sided in 2 cage 2 relic of progenitus, but didn't see anythin during the game, so another easy victory.
Turn 2 vs Jund (0-2). G1 on draw, i keep and hand with 1city 1careful 1 coliseum 1 troll and other stuff. He started with thougtseize on my study, i waited to have 8 cards for discarging troll, when i play city he waste it and so i go very slowly so he win with tarmogoyf and other stuff. G2 , i mulled to 4 but nothing so easy game for him.
Turn 3 vs WB deck(2-1). G1 win on second turn. G2 out 2 ichorids 1 thug in 3 claims. I started slowly and i played RIP, so i lost. G3, i keep an hand with 1coliseum 4gold lands 1 therapy 1 carefull study. Turn 1, city in therapy, named RIP he got 1. He thougtseized my study, i draw troll and after breaktrought, so i go off using coliseum.
Turn 4 we decided to draw (with 7 points we were in top8).
Top 8 vs MUD (2-1). G1 on the draw. Oppo played chalice of the void with 1 counter on first turn, on my first turn discarded troll to start dredging. On second and third turn oppo played trinisphere and kuldotha forgemaster. I thought that i could never win in this situation, but thanks to ichorids and dredging i get a lot of tokes, so i keep attacking each turn until i win. G2 out flayer, 1 breaktrhougt, 1 dread return 1 carefull study, in 2 grudge 2 claim. He played chalice of the void, i had a slow stard and lost. G3 out 1 grudge 2 claim, in 1dread return 1 breakthrought 1 study for going of on first turn. I take an hand with 2 LED 2 coliseum 1 breakthrought 1 city 1 narco. First turn, i tryed to go off so i played led, led, coliseum in breakthrought, and i draw 1FL 1Throll, so led in Loth i dredged another FL so break the second led for another 12 cards dredges. i get 2 narco 2 therapyes, so i stripped his tormod's crypt. I win again with ichorids and tokens.
In top 4 we splitted the reward.
In my opinion, i felt very comfortable with this build during all the tournament because all my first hand were good enough for going off very quickly. Thanks to all.
Hi All, I recently got Top 8 at the MTG Deals Legacy Open which rounded up around 90-95 players. There were sets of 4 duals to be shelled out to top 8 with more prizes extended to top 16.
I was running the exact same list as before: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13503&iddeck=99201
- The only difference being -1 Pithing Needle, +1 Firestorm bumping it up to 2.
My recollection is a bit fuzzy. Note to self I should jot down some notes. :/
Round 1: Deadguy Ale
G1: Dredge Ball
G2: He played a plains and passed on his turn 1. On my turn I open with LED, Faithless looting cast and without passing priority cracked the LED for 3 Red mana. I bin a couple of stinkweed Imps and proceed to hit Trolls for deeper dredges. I end with a bridge or two alongside a Narcomoeba and a Therapy I ultimately use to strip away the RIP he was waiting to cast on his turn 2. Without the RIP to contend with I'm able to steal the game.
2-0
Round 2: 12 Post
G1: Dredge Ball. He actually scoops in response to a Therapy so I don't actually know what hes on before Game 2.
G2: I don't see any interaction outside of a couple of flusterstorms for a careful study and something else I can't remember. Other than that I'm able to build a board presence on the back of Ichorid recursion and end up taking the game.
2-0
Round 3: Shardless BUG
G1. I see a turn 1 DRS. I actually go to my end step and discard a troll. On his turn he goes to try and eat my only dredger and in response to his activation I cycle street wraith and fizzle it. I cast a couple of draw spells to make the DRS unable to keep up after a few turns.
G2. I don't see any interaction.
2-0
Round 4: RUG Delver
G1: Dredge ball
G2. He mulls to 6 and keeps. Doesn't play a land and passes it back to me to my surprise. At this point I'm thinking he must have Surgical extraction. I actually open with a Therapy but not on him, but on myself as I was holding two Stinkweed Imps and a pair of Street Wraith that would beat his Surgical on any dredgers. He never draws a land. he does surgical away my bridges, but without the ability to cast any spells I pretty much had free reign to cast my own without fear of countermagic and a few Ichorid beats get the job done.
2-0
Round 5: U/R Delver
G1: This is an interesting game. I had to mull to 5 and it consisted of Putrid Imp, 2x Bridge, Ichorid, land. He opens with Delver of secrets which makes me think he has a Daze or FOW. I draw a land on my turn and decide it best to wait a turn to drop the Imp to avoid Daze (I figure I can take a couple of Delver beats). He then drops a Goblin Guide which reveals a Golgari Grave Troll. At least I know a dredger is coming. I take the 5 after his delver is flipped off the back of a cast Brainstorm. On my turn I draw the dredger play my second land and drop the imp which resolves. When he attacks again he reveals a Street Wraith off the top off the GG trigger. I decide to block the Delver with my putrid imp and before damage is dealt I discard the Troll, 2x Bridge, and the Ichorid which nets me 2 2/2s on his turn. On my upkeep I return the Ichorid after exiling my Putrid Imp and decide to draw the Stree Wraith and Cycle it to Dredge the Troll which allows me to hit a Narcomoeba! I bash in for 7 then pass it back, but not before netting another 2 2/2s off my dead ichorid. He decides to attack with Delver (a mistake he mentions later) and I simply block with my Narco to Net me yet another 2 2/2s. Eventually Ichorid recursion and zombie beats get me there! I'm able to steal the game.
G2. I Dredge ball and he doesn't have interaction for my GY shenanigans.
2-0
Round 6: Deathblade ID
Round 7: Aggro Loam ID
Final Record: 5-0-2
Top 8:
We do not come to a consensus with regards to splitting the duals so we have to play an additional round. This meant that I would either end up with 4 blue duals or 4 non blue duals... a pretty big value difference. Anyway we continue on and I'm seeded 7th going up against a matchup I'm never particularly excited to play against. Not the worst, but not a walk in the park either.
Round 1: U/W/R Miracles
G1. Its a bit of a drawn out affair as he hits a couple of Terminus, however, I'm very conservative this game and I only recurred 1 Ichorid at a time to net me zombies. I was just beating down with zombies until he was forced to Terminus. Then I would recur the 1 Ichorid again and generate more zombies that he had to deal with. In this matchup its important to not overextend the Ichorids into a Terminus as they're your best threat cause once its bottom'd your only chances are Narcos...
G2. He gets flooded with Tops and never finds the RIP to adequately interact.
2-0
Top 4: Split a set of 4 blue duals!
Props:
-MTG deals for hosting
-Not dropping a single game
-Mutual friends in the top 8
-4 blue duals
Do you remember how you sided when you played against miracles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
For this matchup I believe I took out the 3 Putrid Imp and brought in the 3 Wispmare. They help get around Spell Pierce and Counterbalance. In this case he never drew the RIP to make it matter, but I always feel better having it as an out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Quattro
As a general rule I try to not bring in too many cards. When you think about it most individuals are not boarding in cards to counter their opponents board cards. But that is exactly what were trying to do Game 2 most of the time. I would rather still be able to "go off" with a powerful draw then get flooded with Wispmare when they don't have hate. As a dredge player you're hedging that the chances that they'll see 1 of their 2 RIP will take longer than you building up a relevant board presence to make the card mute. But again because you're boarding in the 3 Wispmare it means you're not completely cold to the card.
Great reports guys. Allows us to study the meta without playing. We can learn from each other experience. I like the balls out led crack / looting on turn one hitting narcs into therapy to strip a rip before its played. I'm thinking sb in 2 deep anals and keep LEDs in maybe 2-3 petals to increase the odds of this early opportunity. Unmask is good but, removing ichorid food for it, I didn't like.
I will admit I took a chance, but I figure with decks like Deadguy that you know do not play FOW sometimes you have to mulligan aggressively. Playing slower is only benefiting your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by ottofromorbit
I'm the guy that played MUD in top 8 who was defeated by oracl3. I'm a dredge player too. Can anyone tell him that remove dredges from g2 is the worst choice? :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by oracL3
Now, a sideboarding question: if you have 2 Chain of Vapor, 1 Darkblast and 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in your sideboard, and a maindeck like oracl3's list except for the Flame-Kin Zealot (instead of Flayer of the Hatebound) and a second Griselbrand (instead of a Golgari Thug), how would you side?
Forgive me for sounding a little perplexed here, but why Wispmare?Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
I get that it can take care of RIP, but it's flaccid to Leyline of the Void.
Are you running answers to Cage aswell?
I've been playing around with a 3-of either Annul or Swan Song lately > still not convinced they're all that against decks that can run counter, as I generally don't leave any mana open! Any of the rest of you tested or played it?
Why is it flaccid to LotV? It takes care of it pretty well. I play with 1 or 2 Wispmares in addition to claims from time to time to overload the RiP-Player with answers. It works especially against Miracles which has a nearly nonexisting clock and the matchup can get a little bit grindier.Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
For Wispmare to work against LoTV on Turn-zero, you need 3 mana. Not exactly likely.....Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkJester
I'm not saying Wispmare is necessarily a bad choice, but I feel since Void almost always hits on T0, you need a 1-mana or 2 mana-at-most option to deal with it, considering our small manabase and vulnerability to Wasteland.
Considering the main 3 threats I usually deal with are Cage, LoTV and RiP > Wispmare seems to only deal with one of them well.
I don't understand this post. Why do you need three mana exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
^ What he said.
Anyway I got wrenched at my last tournament despite feeling pretty good after last weekend's win. Can't win them all as they say!
Went 1-3 drop..
The losses were as follows:
Round 2 against Imperial Painter. Game 1 I dredged through a good portion of my deck and despite only having hit 1 bridge felt in position to win a couple of turns later as my opponent's only form of action was a single top in play (I had therapied away 2x Imperial Recruiters and only left him with lands). On his turn he draws and activates top to then find an Ensnaring Bridge! He slams it and I'm pretty much boned from this spot as I have no maindeck answers to the bridge. I felt pretty deflated losing that way, but it happens.
Game 2 I keep a "turn 1" kill and proceed to DR into Iona backed by zombies. I tried to get cute with Iona thinking if I dread Return it while Painter was in play I could potentially lock him out of casting anymore spells.
On game 3 I kept a strong hand. This game I decided on not boarding in the Wispmare, the reason being that I can't interact with his combo as it is and I would rather try to blow the game wide open ala game2. Anyway on the play my opponent fetches up a plateau and knowing I don't have my Wispmares and that he most likely has the Enlightened tutor at the ready I decide to just go for it. I'm thinking of trying to establish some type of board position that would not care about the RIP. I actually end up bricking on a dredge and hit no bridges and no narcos. I do however get 3 of my Ichorids with a lot of food only to be blown out by the now confirmed E. Tutor into RIP..
Round 3 against Dark Maverick or might have been JUNK.
Game 1 I dredged a bunch of stuffs.
Game 2. He opens with an Inquisition of Kozilek which takes my LED. On my turn I cast the Careful I was holding and bin two dredgers. On his turn he drops a DRS and a Cage and I just decide to pack it up. That was brutal. ;__;
Game 3. Similar to Game 3 against painter I attempt to go for it and brick on a dredge and hit mediocre stock. He has the E. Tutor for RIP and I try to cast 3 back to back Narcos while he had no creatures and got him down to 10 before he drew a Mirran Crusader and equipped a SoFI to it lol.
Round 4 against Deathblade
Game 1. I dredged a bunch of stuffs.
Game 2. Surgical Extraction Ichorid, Snapcaster Surgical extraction Bridge from below..
Game 3. Surgical Extraction Ichorid, Snapcaster Surgical extraction Bridge from below..
There might have been a DRS in that matchup I don't remember
I didn't hit particularly relevant cards early in the matchups I lost. My dredges were a bit subpar, but that's the variance we face.
Sometimes they hit their hate sometimes they miss. Just like us.
I've seen abrupt decay in a few sideboards. Is this working?
Do we side extra mana source to help? are we dropping led for petals g2-3?
Just wondering the success of it vs ctrl decks dredge hate
Wispmare is 1 mana. It has: "Evoke {W} (You may cast this spell for its evoke cost. If you do, it's sacrificed when it enters the battlefield.)" Evoke means that you still get the destroy target enchantment ability, and additionally trigger any bridges in your graveyard since it sac's itself, if somehow you have them there. Now it still won't deal with Cage, since that is an artifact, but Ingot Chewer can do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by slave
On that subject, I've got a question for all of you. I've been playing the same main deck that Drew Tunison played at GP DC with 2x Griselbrand and 1x FKZ. I've currently been playing 3x Chain of Vapor in my SB as my anti hate, since I'd rather not dilute the deck anymore than I have to and that card deals with everything short of Surgical. I don't currently play lands or petal in the SB.
So, how do you guys deal with Chalice of the Void on 1?
I can see playing abrupt decay, since that has the additional value of blanking chalice on 2 (I think that is how that works), and I've had Ingot Chewer recommended to me since it is 5 mana on the stack (is that correct?) but is still 1 mana like Wispmare and so it jumps around spell pierce, counterbalance, and chalice, which Chain and Claim do not. Has anyone had success playing abrupt decay + lands/petal in the more combo oriented builds? Or should I look to Ingot Chewer and Wispmare?