[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

A new version of Kozilek that Demonic Tutors when cast? Some kind of powerful hedron artifact that wins the game? A new Ugin?

Also on my hope list:
A fetch that can grab posts
New ETB lands to tutor for
A new Eye of Ugin type land


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I've been trying to make this work:

3 Candel
3 Tops

1 Emrakul
1 Ula
1 Koz
4 Titan

4 Brain
4 Crop
4 Force
4 Stifle
3 Misdirection

1 Cavern
4 Cloud
4 Glimmer
2 Maze of Ith
1 eye
1 Flooded
1 Glacial
2 island
1 karakas
2 Misty
1 Delta
1 Tabernacle
3 tropicals

1 Ugin
3 Show and tell

Mazes switched in for Vesuva is the latest mod, basically a turn buyer.
Misdirection for extra counter power and Hate to Tourach.

Matches are about the same, delver still tough but mazes can buy time and decoy for land destruction. Having some issues with dead initial draws, usually not enough land in hand to do much. Blue hands with stifle/crop or with force are generally stronger. Deck needs more access/dig to threats. Tabernacle hasn't been pulling much weight lately.

36-2 in matches with my current build. The 2 losses both being to infect. Both being my own misplays. Deck is on fire at the moment. Going to hold onto my build until after the Eternal Extravaganza next weekend.

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Originally Posted by Ponders

I've been trying to make this work:

3 Candel
3 Tops

1 Emrakul
1 Ula
1 Koz
4 Titan

4 Brain
4 Crop
4 Force
4 Stifle
3 Misdirection

1 Cavern
4 Cloud
4 Glimmer
2 Maze of Ith
1 eye
1 Flooded
1 Glacial
2 island
1 karakas
2 Misty
1 Delta
1 Tabernacle
3 tropicals

1 Ugin
3 Show and tell

Mazes switched in for Vesuva is the latest mod, basically a turn buyer.
Misdirection for extra counter power and Hate to Tourach.

Matches are about the same, delver still tough but mazes can buy time and decoy for land destruction. Having some issues with dead initial draws, usually not enough land in hand to do much. Blue hands with stifle/crop or with force are generally stronger. Deck needs more access/dig to threats. Tabernacle hasn't been pulling much weight lately.

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You're having mana problems because you're not running nearly enough land. I love Maze -- I play 3x -- but I never count it as a "land" when building. It's basically a spell that costs a land drop instead of mana. So you basically just straight-up cut lands from your deck with Vesuva.

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

You're having mana problems because you're not running nearly enough land. I love Maze -- I play 3x -- but I never count it as a "land" when building. It's basically a spell that costs a land drop instead of mana. So you basically just straight-up cut lands from your deck with Vesuva.

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As far as early turns go Vesuva hasn't been missed that much. For maze its a fairly even trade given that you need a turn before you can use it, with some notable exceptions: lifegain, existing untapped clouds on field, chasm replacement, etc. I get the impression colored mana would be more valuable. Even so, its possible the difficult matches are just still difficult matches. In a format that can skew almost 50% delver, what can you do against an opponents T2 wasteland backed up by daze or fow?

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Originally Posted by Ponders

As far as early turns go Vesuva hasn't been missed that much. For maze its a fairly even trade given that you need a turn before you can use it, with some notable exceptions: lifegain, existing untapped clouds on field, chasm replacement, etc. I get the impression colored mana would be more valuable. Its possible the difficult matches are just still difficult matches, that legacy tempo doesn't favor 6 mana cards in a wasteland format.

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Personally, I can't imagine cutting any Vesuvas. It's one of the most powerful and flexible cards in the deck. And it's especially useful against graveyard decks; I've won a lot of games because Vesuva effectively means that I have 5x maindeck Bojuka Bog. And copying Posts is good.

If you're having trouble with tempo decks in your meta, take a look at my build.

Main Deck (61)

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
8 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva

SIDEBOARD (14)
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction

It takes a bit of practice -- especially mulligans and land sequencing -- but it has very strong tempo matchups (including BUG Delver, which I always see people complaining about here). Maze is important in those matchups, but I also use Exploration to mitigate the tempo loss from the extra land drop it requires (and it can lead to some absurdly explosive starts). But my local meta is normally very Delver-heavy, and I've been preying on those decks for a long time.

Another thing that I do to fight tempo decks is drop fetchlands entirely. Now, I'm monocolored (and really just splashing green at that), so fixing colors just isn't as big a deal for me. I also play Ancient Stirrings instead of Brainstorm, which doesn't need shuffle effects for maximum value. But, even though I do play SDT, dropping the fetchlands means that Delver is never going to T1 Stone Rain me with Stifle. (It also means that I can consistently cast Krosan Grip through a T1 Blood Moon on the draw.)

Another thing that I think helps me against tempo is running the full 4x Crop Rotation (although I see you already do that). Being able to effectively Stifle their Wastelands is critical. And having the full 4x helps when you're running Maze of Ith because you can easily upgrade it into a Post (or whatever) in matchups where Maze is a dead card.

But just running a higher land count -- including Vesuvas -- makes you less vulnerable to early Wastelands. If they Waste you on T1, they're not playing a threat. If they Waste you on T2, they're not playing a Goyf, so the worst-case scenario is just a blind-flipped Delver. And in each of those situations, having more Posts in your hand to play (including Vesuvas), means that you're just trading more-or-less one-for-one on tempo. One of the reasons that I like Ancient Stirrings so much is that it lets you use non-Wasteable basic forests to dig so deep to find what you need (land, Maps, Candles, Needles), which makes it much easier to recover from early Wastelands.

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

Personally, I can't imagine cutting any Vesuvas. It's one of the most powerful and flexible cards in the deck. And it's especially useful against graveyard decks; I've won a lot of games because Vesuva effectively means that I have 5x maindeck Bojuka Bog. And copying Posts is good.

If you're having trouble with tempo decks in your meta, take a look at my build.

Main Deck (61)

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
8 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva

SIDEBOARD (14)
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction

It takes a bit of practice -- especially mulligans and land sequencing -- but it has very strong tempo matchups (including BUG Delver, which I always see people complaining about here). Maze is important in those matchups, but I also use Exploration to mitigate the tempo loss from the extra land drop it requires (and it can lead to some absurdly explosive starts). But my local meta is normally very Delver-heavy, and I've been preying on those decks for a long time.

Another thing that I do to fight tempo decks is drop fetchlands entirely. Now, I'm monocolored (and really just splashing green at that), so fixing colors just isn't as big a deal for me. I also play Ancient Stirrings instead of Brainstorm, which doesn't need shuffle effects for maximum value. But, even though I do play SDT, dropping the fetchlands means that Delver is never going to T1 Stone Rain me with Stifle. (It also means that I can consistently cast Krosan Grip through a T1 Blood Moon on the draw.)

Another thing that I think helps me against tempo is running the full 4x Crop Rotation (although I see you already do that). Being able to effectively Stifle their Wastelands is critical. And having the full 4x helps when you're running Maze of Ith because you can easily upgrade it into a Post (or whatever) in matchups where Maze is a dead card.

But just running a higher land count -- including Vesuvas -- makes you less vulnerable to early Wastelands. If they Waste you on T1, they're not playing a threat. If they Waste you on T2, they're not playing a Goyf, so the worst-case scenario is just a blind-flipped Delver. And in each of those situations, having more Posts in your hand to play (including Vesuvas), means that you're just trading more-or-less one-for-one on tempo. One of the reasons that I like Ancient Stirrings so much is that it lets you use non-Wasteable basic forests to dig so deep to find what you need (land, Maps, Candles, Needles), which makes it much easier to recover from early Wastelands.

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I tend to agree with most of this. I like the exploration in the deck, the candels, mazes and Ugin. The multiple copies of dust is very intriguing. The mono-colored versions are probably more stable, even though the format skews blue. I think I still disagree somewhat on vesuva, partly because many decks have lately cut them to 2 and I seem to have done ok without them. You seem somewhat threat lite, and not just your build but many of the posts. With the maps kept in, do you ever include dark depths?

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Originally Posted by Ponders

I tend to agree with most of this. I like the exploration in the deck, the candels, mazes and Ugin. The multiple copies of dust is very intriguing. The mono-colored versions are probably more stable, even though the format skews blue. I think I still disagree somewhat on vesuva, partly because many decks have lately cut them to 2 and I seem to have done ok without them. You seem somewhat threat lite, and not just your build but many of the posts. With the maps kept in, do you ever include dark depths?

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I considered Depths many times, but it just doesn't seem efficient. Unless I already have one half out, I can't envision a situation where I'd want to spend two tutors to combo. The token, while big, is pretty fragile in a format with Karakas, StP, Lili, Jace, Terminus, etc. I'd rather go get more Posts and/or Eye of Ugin with the inevitability they entail. And while I could also just pay 30 to "hardcast" Marit Lage, I'd rather just go for Emrakul if I'm already at that stage of mana development. I will happily take advantage of an opponent's Depths, however!

The deck is only threat light on the surface. Because I have so much tutoring and dig, I can usually find Eye of Ugin with little effort once I'm ready to make a move. The second copy of Kozilek also helps grease the deck's wheels, since he's so easy to cast and refills my hand with threats, tutors, or more ramp.

All Is Dust is an amazing card (and my favorite card in all of Magic). I used to run 3x, but cut one for a second Ugin, since they play similar roles. I've considered replacing all of them with Ugin because he does so much more, but the extra mana can make a big difference in certain matchups where you really want the ability to consistently wipe the board on T3 (Elves being the most obvious). Without an Exploration or Candelabra, the common sequence of Cloudpost-->Cloudpost-->Glimmerpost gives you 7, which is the most mana you can generate on T3. And because of the tribal type, you can still cast Dust with the less ideal board of 2x Glimmerpost, 1x Cloudpost, Eye of Ugin; the extra savings also matters if you're desperately trying to dig with Kozilek to prevent yourself from dying on the swingback. And, of course, Dust immediately takes out 8+ drops, namely Griselbrand and Progenitus (although Griselbrand is somewhat less of an issue with easy access to Karakas).

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

36-2 in matches with my current build. The 2 losses both being to infect. Both being my own misplays. Deck is on fire at the moment. Going to hold onto my build until after the Eternal Extravaganza next weekend.

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Would be great to see your new brew, good luck!

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

Main Deck (61)

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

2 All Is Dust
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
3 Exploration
3 Pithing Needle
2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
8 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Vesuva

SIDEBOARD (14)
3 Krosan Grip
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Oblivion Stone
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction

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I like the look of this. I mean I'm going to continue UG post but for my inbred meta here at home, this might be pretty eye opening. We allow proxies too so maybe I'll print it up quick and try it one day.

Burgeoning looks interesting. Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Ponders

Burgeoning looks interesting. Any thoughts?

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Exploration is nearly a strictly better effect and there's been discussion in the thread previously about it.

Seems the same or worse than exploration. And if you run both, you're now warping the deck a considerable amount

For my list, If I can find room for mods I'm considering Petrified Field, and some kind of tutor (living wish, ancient stirrings, wordly tutor).

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Originally Posted by Deathrite_Shaman

Exploration is nearly a strictly better effect and there's been discussion in the thread previously about it.

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I wasn't around for the old thread... Not sure what you're reffering to. Any chance you could either link me the discussion or explain what the verdict was? I've been contemplating running Exploration or Explore in my build, but I wan't sure what the general consensus was.

Also, what do people think about Sylvan Library in the list? I've been testing a 2-SDT 1-Library list for about 2 weeks now, and I like it a lot.

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Originally Posted by theavish

I wasn't around for the old thread... Not sure what you're reffering to. Any chance you could either link me the discussion or explain what the verdict was? I've been contemplating running Exploration or Explore in my build, but I wan't sure what the general consensus was.

Also, what do people think about Sylvan Library in the list? I've been testing a 2-SDT 1-Library list for about 2 weeks now, and I like it a lot.

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I've thought about this and I think the benefit is limited. SDT costs less, is a strong t1 play, and is more dynamic. Top is better at on demand searching with fetch interaction, and can save itself under threat. On the other hand, SDT is a revoker target, and eats a counter in matches vs delver. Sylvan Library enables you to draw an extra card, however this comes at a substantial cost of life. Because it seems to me that the post player is frequently living under a beatdown in a fast format I opt not to play it.

Seriously considering Dragonlord Dromoka and a real white splash.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Seriously considering Dragonlord Dromoka and a real white splash.

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I'm taking it you ran into some problems vs. Miracles at Eternal Extravaganza?

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Originally Posted by MGB

I'm taking it you ran into some problems vs. Miracles at Eternal Extravaganza?

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Nono. Just think that Dragonlord Drokoma deals with most delver-related matchups, which knocked me out of eternal extravangaza with insane hands.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Nono. Just think that Dragonlord Drakoma deals with most delver-related matchups, which knocked me out of eternal extravangaza with insane hands.

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Seems like a good idea, but I do have a concern. My worry is :4::g::w: because six mana is an expensive solution to Delver considering most Delver decks rely on setting a tempo that's faster than a lot of decks. Is Show and Tell going to make a comeback or are you thinking of relying on other tricks to live long enough to land him?

This is a double post, but I'm posting for an entirely unrelated reason than Dragonlord Drakoma, so I think I can do this (please nobody hurt me if I can't).

At SCG's Dallas IQ Premier, a UG Post list made 13th Place: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=81090


//Lands (26)
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Cloudpost
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Khalni Garden
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Vesuva
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas

//Creatures (9)
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Primeval Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Trinket Mage
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre


//Spells (25)
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Expedition Map
2 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Crop Rotation
2 Moment's Peace
2 Repeal
3 Show and Tell

//Sideboard
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Swan Song