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Gonna try out a token list with Bitterblossom, Elspeth, bladesplicer as maindecked token generator and Timely Reinforcements in the board as extra token generator. Not tried out Timely in Legacy yet. But played it very much in standard where the card pretty much killed of red aggro/burn strategies.
Anyone tested a singleton horizon canopy in place of a plains for a random draw effect. I've seen it in some other bw decks
Also seen that singleton canopy but unless playing more white cards in the deck I dont like the white mana only on turn 1. But like where it increases the land count while still able to replace it self.
I do have a couple of plans I want to try out in a token heavy deck. But not ready to share yet :P
I do plan to try out Joe's list with Spectral Proccession, after all spectral is one of the cheapest 3 for 1 spells in the game.
I must say I have quite pleased with both Bladesplicers and Spectra Proccession. I do see why Joe tried out Spectrals. Was pretty sceptical about them at start. But 3 Guys for 3 mana in world of so many 1 touchness creatures as well as pretty much only pinpoint removal is played. When combined with Cabal Therapy they are a beast.
The Chrome Moxes does makes his version alot better.
I'm uber tempted to try this now. I suggested Spectral Procession over Vampire Nighthawk a billion pages ago but never did try it out... I don't think I even considered its synergy with Cabal Therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
Also @ Chrome Mox - I have always played two and I find that to be exactly right. I also rock Ancient Tombs though, because secretly I wish I was playing Angel Stompy. Meh :/
So im building this deck. With 3 things in mind
1- Disruption in form of discard: Thoughtseize/inquisition, Hymn to tourach, And tidehollow sculler
2- Aether vial and creatures to back it up. In this blue meta, i think its very good.
3- Mystic, and equipments
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures [19]
4 AEther Vial
1 Batterskull
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
Spells [19]
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Scrubland
7 Swamp
4 Wasteland
Lands [22]
SIDEBOARD
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Extirpate
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Perish
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
I have some issues with the land base: To cast hymn to tourach on turn 2, 20 lands with wasteland were really few. I added more lands because of it. Should i forget the wastelands, drop the mana back to 20/21 and get another creature?
Edit: Just got remembered that if i can get more fetches, my problem is solved
I ran something similar the other day. Not many players at the shop this weekend though so my 3-0 result isn't very significant. (SCG St. Louis was nearby, lots of regulars went to that instead.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kring
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Mother of Runes
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Bitterblossom
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
2 Wasteland
3 Plains
4 Scrubland
4 Marshflats
9 Swamp
Beat RUG Delver 2-0, Fish 2-1, and Merfolk 2-1. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm swapping Surgical Extraction for a couple Ethersworn Canonist. The idea was to deal with Snapcasters, and I generally have been able to have a vial up at 2. Vialing in a Canonist shuts down the Snapcaster and nets a body in the process. Hoping to play tomorrow to find out how well that works out.
Just so you see that there are other DGA-Versions that actually are good,
my list:
//lands
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Fetid Heath
1 Plains
//creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Jotun Grunt
//artefacts/enchantments
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 SoBaM
1 SoLaS
3 Bitterblossom
3 Senseis Divining Top
//removal/discard
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
I dont run a vial and still crush all the Stoneblade decks... So i really dont think Vial is a necessity...
Greetings
necessity? i dont think so. I do think that vial is just a option and the lists that donīt have it, just have the DGA mandadory cards (imo) in 4'ofs (hymn, vindicate), and the lists who run vial, have them on 3ofs/2ofs, and some in the sideboard if the meta requires it.
My opinion? It doesnt change one bit, running vial or not, its just a choice. Although it does develop the board position more, and i like the tidehollow sculler tricks with it!
Im running this list:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Creatures [21]
4 AEther Vial
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
Spells [20]
2 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Lands [21]
SIDEBOARD
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Extirpate
1 Manriki-Gusari
2 Perish
1 Vindicate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Relic of Progenitus
Sideboard [15]
My thought on tokenlist, gonna try a heavy discard version with Thougthseize, Inquision, Cabal therapy and Hymn. Low removal count, no vindicate. Board then really heavy with removal and gy hate.
I would not play a discardheavy version with just a few removals in a meta of Maverick and RUG DelverTempo... I dont know whats the problem of combining discard+removal+boardpresence in a single deck, I mean this decks get so much more weak when youre just packing 2 of this 3 components....
Greetings
Traditional DGA has no board-presence beside T3-Batterskull that can be handled rather easily. It has a bunch of fragile Utility-Critters that die from looking too long at them. That is NOT board-presence.
@Tokenlist
Looks really interesting to me, I'm really waiting for some Test-Reports
I did NOT say board-HEGEMONY I said board-PRESENCE, and when youre running only discard and stuff like that you wont have more creatures than just SFM and BOB...
You really dont need much removal at all against the RuG tempo deck. Vindicate is pretty much dead against the deck compared to other removals and against maverick vindicate isnt enough. After the board against rug i would bring in Engineered Explosives, Delver at 0cc or at 1 cc as well as Mongoose at 1 tarmo at 2 but swords and paths takes care of goyfs with little trubble. If a surgical would ever hit, goyf, tropical island or delver they got so little amount of killing condition that they will have problem taking you down. Key is to not run to many fetch lands in the current meta as stifle will get you.
Against maverick the Explosives goes in again in an additional to paths, perish, mortarpod and probly the second Jitte.
Really do want the discards durring the turn 1,2 and 3 so its possible to reliably to resolve a Bitterblossom or an Elspeth from all the Snapcaster, Spellsnare, Dazes and spellpierces running arround. As much as I love Vindicate i dont feel its the right choice in the current metagame with UWblade/snap, RUG, Reanimator and Maverick Metagame.
Currently testing a token version of the deck, and I must say that the combo of BB and Intangible Virtue is game winnning, and if you couple it with equipment and the likes it is very unlikely for you to loose. Can't post yet a definite build, but I can only say that I am currently using a mox build to get an early BB into play.
I've tried out Liliana of the Veil and she's insane. About time they made a good black planeswalker. I run the Chrome Mox version so I can cast her as early as 2nd turn, Living the dream is first turn thoughtseize to make sure the coast is clear. I've been running Bloodghast as well since I want to get value with her +1 ability. The thing I really like about her is that she's disruption and creature control.
What is your sideboard tech for Maverick and/or blue/white snapcaster? Those are the only decks at the moment that are giving me problems. My version of Deadguy isn't the token version. Thinking of Running a couple of Massacres in the board as well as a Perish and a Damnation... Added a singleton Lightning greaves to hopefully protect a creature before it gets STP'ed. LOL, i considered running Phyrexian Crusader.
Rug Tempo, I don't think has a good matchup vs deadguy. Their creature count is low and while they have disruption, we do too in discard and we at least play some basic lands (I play 7). And my version of deadguy has 14 cards maindeck that can kill creatures...4 swords, 4 vindicate, 1 jitte, 3 liliana and 2 gatekeeper.
Here's what I'm currently testing.
I think ratchet and EE will help in the match-up against UR Delver killing all the one drop headaches: Delver, Grim Lava, Goblin guide, while you empty their hands.
Aven is there in order to prevent UW snapblade from searching on equipments.
On SB, Extirpate help prevent flashbacks from snapcaster in a UW snapblade deck.
On the downside, my land base is very susceptible to huge damage from price of progress if ever they drew on it.
[DECK]
Mainboard
4 Stoneforge mystic
4 Dark confidant
3 Aven mindcensor
2 Diabolic edict
4 swords to plowshares
1 batterskull
1 umezawa's jitte
1 sword of feast and famine
1 sword of fire and ice
2 sensei's divining top
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 hymn to tourach
2 thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of kozilek
2 gerard's verdict
3 vindicate
1 elspeth knight errant
4 marsh flats
2 verdant catacombs
3 wasteland
4 scrubland
2 plain
2 swamp
1 urborg tomb of yogmoth
1 karakas
1 bojuka bog
1 volrath's stronghold
Sideboard
4 mindbreak trap
4 extirpate
2 diabolic edict
3 perish
1 manriki gusari
1 vindicate
[/DECK]
Cant say im a fan of your mana base. I see so many forced mulls when the mana base doesnt use Fetid Heaths with lot of plains, bog, stronghold and karakas. IMO bog and karakas are to cute. Wouldnt run them in a deck without Knight of the Reliquary. Mean isnt nearly every plain + bog / karakas draw a mulligan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abantau
Think EE is more powerful the Ratchet Bomb in that its a far faster card at the expence not able to go over 2 counters on it. But its very much castable arround spell snare and counterbalance.
My own list im been working on. Discard Heavy token list.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Bitterblossom
2 Blade Splicer
2 Elspeth Knight-Errant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thougthseize
2 Inquision of Kozilek
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Chrome Mox
4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scrublands
2 Fetid Heaths
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamps
1 Plains Still hate this card buts its a necessary evil :P
4 Wastelands
Sideboard
2 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Perish
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mortarpod
3 Engineered Explosives
Discard heavy might seem strange but blue decks dont really run much card draw advantech only card selection. There isnt much Ancestral Visions anymore. Discard is there to be able to resolve a 2 dropp through Snapcaster and spellsnare and token generators is there for snapcaster + swords / path/ bolt. Found with the token list, Jitte is searched for alot more then Batterskull there for there is an extra in the board. As you might see the list does lack vindicate, but imo its not that great in the current metagame. Spending 3 mana to kill 1 dropps isnt that great atm. If jace becomes more hot again the vindicates might find its way back in the 75.
An other card i have considered is Cursed Scroll, it eats delvers, snapcasters, stoneforge mystics and many other 2 or lower toughness creatures that are running arround in the current metagame.
After my first foray into actually playing Legacy this past weekend at the SCG Invitational with Show and Tell I think I've caught the Legacy bug. Although the deck I played felt very powerful and well positioned, Deadguy looks right up my alley as well as a deck that will not have many bad matchups in any kind of foreseeable metagame thanks to its glut of discard and use of Stoneforge Mystic.
As such, below is the list that I've been working with, albeit on MWS.
// Lands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Scrubland
2 Fetid Heath
1 Karakas
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
// Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
// Spells
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Bitterblossom
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 4 Planar Void
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Serenity
SB: 2 Darkblast
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
Any advice or criticism would be appreciated! The sideboard isn't exactly set in stone, but the Enlightened Tutor sideboard package seems good to me. Also, after watching many a combo and control player be dismantled by Liliana of the Veil, I certainly find myself wanting to play her, but 3 may be one too many.
As a question: Gerard Fabiano's Team Italia deck doesn't seem to be much different than the traditional Deadguy variants, but he opted for a small splash of red for main deck Grim Lavamancers and Pyroblasts/REBs in his sideboard. Are blue/combo matchups rough enough that REBs/Pyroblasts are necessary?
Hello. Long time reader, first time poster. This deck is the bees knees, but I ran into a problem...Bant with Geist of Saint Traft!! I run 3 Diabolic Edicts in the side which performs swell against Sneak and Show...but when my Bant playing opponent can just sac Noble Hierarch, Edict underperforms for sure. Phyrexian Metamorph was the first answer I could think of...but running Enlightened Tutor and Metamorph JUST to kill ONE guy in ONE deck seems awful. Liliana of the Veil would add more edicts, but that just doesn't seem like a reliable enough of a method. Open to any and all suggestions, thanks!