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Green has access to Noble Hierarch to power it out faster. KotR and Pridemage are the most important targets. Reclamation Sage is also nice to have in the board, as is Gaddock Teeg somewhere in the 75.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Blue has V. Clique, TNN (both very blue heavy), Meddling Mage, Geist of Saint Traft.
Black has Bob, Tidehollow Sculler and Orzhov Pontiff. Edit: It also grabs Shriekmaw or those 3/1 all players sac a creature Zombies for :2::b:.
The on color cards that came to mind to run as a singleton maindeck are Aven Mindcensor, Ethersworn Canonist, Samurai of the Pale Curtain, True Believer, and maybe a Glowrider so we can functionally have 2 little Thalias in play at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
A green splash would certainly give some good pieces.
The new Recruiter is obviously completely bonkers. I can see this pushing D&T over the (or at least some kind of) top.
Red still gives Magus of the Moon, which can end games on the spot. However, Blue provides a number of tutrable 3CMC critters that do much of what D&T wants additional creatures to do...
These are damn interesting times.
It also fetches Spirit of the Labyrinth. Can't wait for the Vial @3 Recruiter fetching Spirit with a second Vial @2 in response to an opposing Brainstorm. :eek:
Says you... I am a little bit fearful of what this will do now you can find that new Thalia more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Potential Cards:Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Celestial Crusader (tutorable -X/-X protection, while being a flyer and essentially uncounterable)
Kor Skyfisher (absolutely insane, but unfortunately can't be tutored)
Whitemane Lion (Kor Skyfisher that can be tutored and no flying)
Blade Splicer (Just good value)
Hokori, Dust Drinker (What? Is Tutorable Winter Orb good in a mana denial deck?)
Stonecloaker (Exile a card, and bounce recruiter for value)
Stonecloaker is a real possibility; it's a Flickerwisp on steroids for this card. It's one of those critters I always wished for being 2/2 while playing Imperial.
I've tried most of those in RW by now. The Kor Skyfisher effect is quite good, Hokori, Dust Drinker not so much.
I think Stonecloaker is absolutely a card you want a one-of in your 75 now, that's a good catch.
The new Recruiter has already sold out of preorders on SCG. Article went up at 11:00; by 11:30 there were 23 left at $15, by 12:00 there were 12 left at $18, and now at 12:05 there are none :frown:
At least it's at normal rarity and not Mythic, hopefully it comes down a bit after launch.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardd...roduct=1259875
31 on offer for 18.
For mana curve and playability purposes, we should try to have as many 2-drops as possible for our targets. This card is already going to clog up the high end. We have an awful lot of pruning to do. What to cut?
Well, taking my list from the OP as a starting point...
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
9 Plains
4 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Mangara of Corondor
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Sideboard
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Rest In Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
...I am going to start off trimming:
-1 Mangara (it sure seems like 1 Mangara of Corondor is now the obvious number for this deck)
-1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
-1 Flickerwisp
-1 Phyrexian Revoker
+3 Recruiter of the Guard
+1 Banisher Priest
Yes, I am starting out conservatively. I like trimming Flickerwisp actually. It is a great topdeck and not nearly as strong earlier in the game. Naturally there are lots of silver bullets that deserve consideration, even just in white. We are going to have to figure out which ones are handy to tutor for - and not just to have in your opening grip. All the talk of this card making a splash more valuable is the reverse of true. This card makes a splash less necessary.
Excellent catch - another flyer, doesn't die to -1/-1 effects, recycle-bounce AND GY hate in one nice package. Back to the roots!Quote:
Originally Posted by colo
The real problem with the new Recruiter is fitting in all the cool cards into a single deck, though.
@Finn: No tutorable Crusader?
Are you sure that 4 Karakas is the right number? Sorry if it feels like I am barging in and asking a noob question since this is not my deck, but 4 lands than kill themselves seems like a conflict.
He grabbed the list from the original post which has 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Having played with 3/4 Recruiters for more than a year now, I can say I disagree on the 2 drop targets. The powerful situation is Vial at 3, Vial in the Recruiter, Vial in the target. If your silver bullet is a 2 drop that you have to cast, it risks getting countered, which is a huge tempo blowout. Caverns help mitigate this risk, so human targets are also better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
At least one Flickerwisp should be replaced with Stonecloaker I think. THC does not need to be a 4-of or Mangara a 2-of.
Here are things I think should be one-ofs in the main for potential lists:
Banisher Priest
Stonecloaker
Mangara
Wingmare
Mirran Crusader
That's roughly what my RW main-tutorboard looks like now, with a Skyfisher instead of a Stonecloaker and a Fiend Hunter instead of a Banisher Priest. Worth noting that the deck is going to get a little softer to Punishing Fire since you don't really want to play x/3s.
I'll try:
4 mom
4 thalia gt
4 sfm
2 revoker
1 leonin relic-warder
3 flickerwisp
3 new guy
1 mirran crusader
1 banisher priest
1 mangara
2 thalia hc
4 plow
7 artifacts
2 cavern
10 plains
4 waste
4 port
3 karakas
As I'm looking at it right now, the curve sucks :(
That curve sucks for non-Vial games but is actually much stronger for Vial games. It roughly evens out.
Here's my first attempt at a mono-w list:
3 mom
4 thalia gt
4 sfm
2 revoker
1 spirit of the lab
1 stonecloaker
2 flickerwisp
4 recruiter
1 mirran crusader
1 banisher priest
1 mangara
1 thalia hc
1 wingmare
Could see squeezing 1 Magus of the Moon in this list off 3 Caverns and 0 Plateau. 4 Vial + 3 Cavern is 7 'red sources' (rarely use my Plateau anyway) and Magus solves a lot of problematic matchups (12-Post, Lands). It's a little greedy but the payoff is huge.
welp there goes Imperial Taxes. Anyways, nice card! That is busted.
List looks pretty good, although I'm not sure if you want to drop to only 2 Flickerwisp, even when they're tutorable. Maybe -1 SFM +1 Flickerwisp?Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
Edit: But then you're still missing out on THC.
The new recruiter is pretty nuts. I was brainstorming a bit with a friend of mine, here's sort of what I had in mind for a build with it:
Lands: 23
7x Plains
4x Karakas
4x Wasteland
3x Rishadan Port
3x Flagstones of Trokair
2x *Flex slot. I swear there was a card I was going to put here but I can't remember the name of it. Probably gonna end up being Horizon Canopy or Geier Reach Sanitarium.*
Spells: 11 (Nothing special here.)
4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitter
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Creatures: 32
4x Mother of Runes
3x Serra Avenger
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Flickerwisp
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Stonecloaker
1x Vryn Wingmare
1x Banisher Priest
1x Mangara of Corondor
1x Aven Mindcensor
(It needs 5-6 creatures removed, but I have no idea what to cut out.)
Sideboard:
3x Rest in Peace
2x Cataclysm
2x Mirran Crusader
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Manriki-Gusari (Because without fail, I play one mirror-match every tournament I go to.)
It's a very rough idea, and probably falls into the trap of "too much cool stuff" but I think having 3-5 one-offs like that tutorable with recruiter is very much a workable concept. Other stuff that should probably be there, but I couldn't decide what to cut includes Aegis of the Gods and/or Auriok Champion / Kor Firewalker.
No, no. Mirran Crusader is definitely needed. That card can be the beef tutor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Honestly, iatee, I don't think you have seen what THC can do yet. You have poo poo'd it from the start. That chick is win city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
So THC is one hell of a drug?Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
I've played it a decent amount, and whenever I do, I do a mental check of 'Is this card currently better than a Mirran Crusader would be?'. It's been about 50%. Off the top of my head, I've lost a game vs Delver because Crusader + Jitte woulda done it but Thalia + Jitte wasn't fast enough, I lost a game vs Aggro Loam yesterday where she was Dismembered, I lost a game vs Maverick where she couldn't attack past a KotR. I've also won rough about as many games off her effect being strong. I don't think it's unplayable, and it got a little better off being tutorable (though it won't be an effect you want to tutor for *that* often), but I still think that DnT isn't actually built to abuse her the same way that White Eldrazi or Maverick can.
My list as of today:
Creatures (26)
4 Mother of Runes
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
1 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Spells (11)
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Lands (23)
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Council's Judgment
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
With Recruiter, there are many different directions to take D&T. We could cut Serra Avenger's as she isn't tutorable via Recruiter, but it's not as if we're unhappy to play with her. I actually tend to board out Avenger less often than I board out Thalia or even Mom. Because of this, I don't think it's right to completely cut Serra Avenger from the deck. She still holds equipment well, is good on offense and defense, and comes off a Vial on two. We don't want to go too low on two drops otherwise we're just too slow versus Delver, Burn, Eldrazi, and rogue decks like Zoo.
Cutting a Mother could be blasphemous, but Enevoldsen top 8'd a GP with only three so it could be fine. She is a pretty bad topdeck after turn 3 or so anyway especially versus Miracles, which is when Recruiter comes down. We could also just become more of a toolbox deck in general by playing 3 Recruiter, 3 Mom, 3 Revoker, 3 Flickerwisp, 3 Stoneforge, etc.
It might be correct to have 1-2 Veteran Armorer or +X/+1 effects (even something like Adaptive Automaton if we make D&T more human centric) in the SB for the near future. People are going to be reacting to this and for good reason - D&T got a lot better with Recruiter of the Guard.
Creatures (26)
3 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Spells (11)
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Lands (23)
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
10 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
2 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Rest in Peace
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Stonecloaker
2 Council's Judgment
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
Here's where I am at:
Lands 23
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
10 Plains
Creatures 26
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Recruiter of the Guard
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Flickerwisp
1 Stonecloaker
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Mirran Crusader
Spells 11
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
Sideboard
2 Path to Exile
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Council's Judgment
2 Rest In Peace
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Containment Priest
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Faerie Macabre
I suppose I could fit Mangara of Corondor in there somewhere. Do we need the third Phyrexian Revoker? Maybe SotL in the side and Mangara main? 2 path + Manriki because DnT will be everywhere.
I like your list. Looks well-rounded, although Banishing Priest should probably be in there, too. 3 Recruiter might be a bit more balance. It does cost tempo without Vial. I guess Mangara could fill the spot of the third Revoker, depending on testing. Whether or not Spirit is MD material is debatable, although I can't deny the sexiness of Recruiter with double Vial @2/3 up for the blowouts.Quote:
Originally Posted by redtwister
http://mythicspoiler.com/cn2/cards/r...oftheguard.jpg
No need to splash red anymore, huh?
DAE Recruiter of the Guard?
In reference to the fact that this tutors x/1s which can be scary, it also tutors for armorer to avoid -1/-1 effects which could be relevant.
That's true. Good point. If this deck is going to be more popular, the hate is going to be more common. I really like the idea of Veteran Armorer in the side.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Not to highjack the Recruiter discussion, but is everyone giving up thinking about a White Eldrazi / Octo-Thalia thread? That was all the rage until this morning (and part of the reason I signed up this morning)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobNC
You're right. Everyone stop discussing this fantastic new card that is absolutely huge news for DNT. Rob's not here for that.
This card even improves the Wr lists, as it also fetches for Flickerwisp and Thalia, Heretic Cathar.
I think it also makes the Black splash a lot better, tutoring for Orzhov Pontiff, Tidehollow Sculler and Dark Confidant with an online vial can be crucial. IF the black splash is reasonable at all, it just got better.
But most importantly, it gives mono white a real edge on both SB slots and Mainboard material. For what it's worth I think this card makes Vryn Wingmare playable, among others I am surely not even thinking of atm.
#HypeBeReal
I'm not talking about more discussion here. There was talk of someone making a new thread, pretty much up until the minute Recruiter was unveiled on SCG. Go back about two pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevestamopz
Open a new thread in Developing for the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobNC
Okay, I got all of my thoughts together: http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=474
Excellent post. I'm sad that Serra Avenger seems least likely to work with a Recruiter deck as she's a beast against my local metal, but the toolbox factor should more than make up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medea_
Man this card basically makes the blue splash not worth it :( (due to the increased mirror presence)