[Deck] Dragon Stompy

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Originally Posted by korstructure

Intriguing idea! Thank you. Another suggestion I heard was using Godo, Bandit Warlord along with Batterskull. Might be reasonable. Unfortunately for all of these suggestions: Burn sideboards in up to 4 Smash to Smithereens (and at least 2) against us. Regardless, it might be better than nothing!

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Yes but their main smash targets will be your 4 Chalice of the Void and the 3/4 Trinisphere. Those will remain their biggest headache. I think if you can get them to "waste" as Smash on your Dragon's Claw that doesn't sound too bad :smile:

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Originally Posted by Jelmerz77

Yes but their main smash targets will be your 4 Chalice of the Void and the 3/4 Trinisphere. Those will remain their biggest headache. I think if you can get them to "waste" as Smash on your Dragon's Claw that doesn't sound too bad [emoji2]

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The real card we lose to is sulfuric vortex. That blanks dragons claw too. Therefore chaos warp would seem to be the best option available to prison and stompy alike. Burn can be winnable with sick draws but I am just a bye for it so more sideboard slots for me.



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2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

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Originally Posted by korstructure

Intriguing idea! Thank you. Another suggestion I heard was using Godo, Bandit Warlord along with Batterskull. Might be reasonable. Unfortunately for all of these suggestions: Burn sideboards in up to 4 Smash to Smithereens (and at least 2) against us. Regardless, it might be better than nothing!

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I've seen some people run Sun Droplet, but I haven't tested it much myself. Unfortunately, it also gets destroyed by Smash to Smithereens.

If you want to go really deep with a sideboard card for "OmniSneak", there is always Confusion in the Ranks. :laugh:

Congratulations on the big win!

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

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I love your Burning Wish list! I'll certainly be testing something similar moving forward. :smile:

I've been thinking about the recent planeswalker builds and I'm reminded of these lists from 2014.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=76931

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13668&iddeck=100433

I've had success against burn with both dragon's claw and zuran orb when burn saw frequent play on MTGO.

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Originally Posted by korstructure

[*]Sneak/Show and OmniSneak. Let's use our SB space here. Ideas for best cards?

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Ashen Rider is pretty solid, unless they can go off with cunning wish in response to the trigger, which the recent variants of omnisneak aren't really built to do, you're pretty ok sitting behind the rider. Sneak and Show sees so little play online that we MTGO grinders don't really run it often but I would definitely pack some in the Seattle meta, given that the previous 1K saw two in the top 8.

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

I've had success against burn with both dragon's claw and zuran orb when burn saw frequent play on MTGO.



Ashen Rider is pretty solid, unless they can go off with cunning wish in response to the trigger, which the recent variants of omnisneak aren't really built to do, you're pretty ok sitting behind the rider. Sneak and Show sees so little play online that we MTGO grinders don't really run it often but I would definitely pack some in the Seattle meta, given that the previous 1K saw two in the top 8.

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If we are saying that we can't interact with the cunning wish instant kill, and looking for things just to put in off show and tell, then I would go with Overwhelming Splendor. That card is going to brick them most of the time and gets around them putting in an ashen rider. They also don't have the options of drawing 7-14 with Griselbrand before the trigger resolves to try and find a way to kill you.

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

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Obviously you just kinda stuck whatever in the board to see what works, but I would consider Cave-In. It gives you access to an earlier and cheaper pyroclasm effect. Additionally, something like Call the Skybreaker may be useful as a way to beat any control deck or just have an actual threat out of the board, as expensive as it is.

Call the Skybreaker [emoji848]

I like this suggestion

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Man this Burning wish list is fantastic! i don't know if it's actually good but it certainly has potential and it will be fun to try new cards in it!

Thankss for all the cool advances from the inital 4 Fiery Confluence to less and less creatures: I really like the direction of being a very dedicated prison deck.
Thanks also to the innovation of Burning Wish - this makes the deck so flexible.

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

Ashen Rider is pretty solid, unless they can go off with cunning wish in response to the trigger, which the recent variants of omnisneak aren't really built to do, you're pretty ok sitting behind the rider. Sneak and Show sees so little play online that we MTGO grinders don't really run it often but I would definitely pack some in the Seattle meta, given that the previous 1K saw two in the top 8.

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How about Confusion in the Ranks? That can also be played of you mana and it is as hard a lock as Ashen Rider.

On a completely unrelated note: @pinkfrosting Why do you play Shattering Spree and not by Force? It can sometimes be harder to get red mana than colorless (maybe that is made worse by me playing a Gemstone Caverns instead of a mountaind and no Petal).

Shattering spree isnt exaxtly a nonbo with chalice because the copies won't get countered. Cheap, tutorable, creates card advantage

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I was not suggesting it was a nombo but that it is very red mana heavy. Not being a nombo with Chalice is a low bar and for 2 mana both Spree and by Force kill 1 artifact, but in the case of by Force you can use your colorless mana for it.

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

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great list. wouldn't Chandra, the Firebrand or Koth be better than Pyromaster in that list?

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Originally Posted by hofzge

I was not suggesting it was a nombo but that it is very red mana heavy. Not being a nombo with Chalice is a low bar and for 2 mana both Spree and by Force kill 1 artifact, but in the case of by Force you can use your colorless mana for it.

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Shattering Spree is counterspell resistant. Not a great argument considering the artifact-heavy decks are non-blue, but it is a point in favor of Spree over Force.

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Shattering Spree is counterspell resistant. Not a great argument considering the artifact-heavy decks are non-blue, but it is a point in favor of Spree over Force.

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My thinking was that it plays around both countermagic against stoneblade and teeg against maverick, although the latter doesn't see a ton of play. By Force is certainly worth considering though.

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Originally Posted by ZTurgeon

Obviously you just kinda stuck whatever in the board to see what works, but I would consider Cave-In. It gives you access to an earlier and cheaper pyroclasm effect. Additionally, something like Call the Skybreaker may be useful as a way to beat any control deck or just have an actual threat out of the board, as expensive as it is.

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I added cave-in, it is pretty sweet. I swapped it for banefire which is fairly weak but I enjoyed throwing uncountable lethal damage at miracles opponents in the late game a couple times.

Overwhelming splendor can be good but show and tell is still running omni+wish, they just don't run the insta-win ants package anymore. So they can still free cantrip to a wish and bounce splendor.

Confusion in the Ranks is good but it suffers from some inconsistency, for instance if they drop a creature and we don't have one in hand or in play already confusion essentially whiffs, if I understand the effect correctly.

Rider always puts a trigger on the stack and while they can still cast cantrips and wishes in response if they drop omniscience they will likely still have to let the trigger resolve and won't be able to cast emrakul or griselbrand. They don't run trickbind or release the ants often anymore.

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

2 5-0's so far with this ridiculous pile of garbage.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/780894#paper

This deck is no longer a random hate deck. We're big enough in the meta that decks are running basics now specifically to combat moon effects. Normally this isn't an issue, turning off 1 color or the ability to make two of a color is often enough backed by a threat. I've found this plan does not work though against czech pile and grixis control. They can too easily play every card in their hand with only one basic and a deathrite or two basics. Even cut off a color completely they can still answer many of the cards in our deck with just K-command. These decks dominate the meta right now making every league often 2 or 3 matches against a flavor 0f this deck. I tested virtually every modal card that can also destroy target land, out of those the best were Pillage and Violent Impact. Despite all the modes I too often found them not flexible enough.

Burning Wish in this build has a ton of useful effects for the same cost as fiery confluence, RR2, while having some heavy hitter mana sinks for the late game against control. At RR2 it can kill a gurmag, deal 2 to all, destroy two artifacts, blow up a basic, etc...The wishboard is a little crazy because I wanted to test some things, It would probably be trimmed in an optimized list.

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I'm really liking the list. I'm a painter player that might jump ship to this now since the whole sdt ban. Any time I can burning wish for a rolling earthquake I am game.

So many painters in this thread! I wonder what everyone did with their recruiters, turned mine into ABU jank

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Originally Posted by pinkfrosting

Overwhelming splendor can be good but show and tell is still running omni+wish, they just don't run the insta-win ants package anymore. So they can still free cantrip to a wish and bounce splendor.

Confusion in the Ranks is good but it suffers from some inconsistency, for instance if they drop a creature and we don't have one in hand or in play already confusion essentially whiffs, if I understand the effect correctly.

Rider always puts a trigger on the stack and while they can still cast cantrips and wishes in response if they drop omniscience they will likely still have to let the trigger resolve and won't be able to cast emrakul or griselbrand. They don't run trickbind or release the ants often anymore.

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You are right about the Confusion.

Let's Look at all outcomes and rank them along very subjective numbers:
S&T -> Omniscience: Confusion Best (4), Ashen Rider very good (3), Splendor mediocre (1)
S&T -> Sneak Attack: Splendor Best (4), Ashen Rider mediocre (1), Confusion mediocre (1)
S&T -> Emrakul: Ashen Rider Best (4), Splendor Best (4), Confusion good (2)
S&T -> Griselbrand: Splendor Best (4), Ashen Rider good (2), Confusion mediocre (1)

Splendor: 13
Ashen Rider: 10
Confusion: 8

From this list it might seem that Splendor is even better than Ashen Rider. It usually does not help against Omniscience, but makes winning with Emrakul impossible, so if the deck doesn't play Cunning Wish or even if it doesn't play Omniscience Overwhelming Splendor might be the best solution (along these totally subjective measures).

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Originally Posted by hofzge

S&T -> Omniscience: Confusion Best (4), Ashen Rider very good (3), Splendor mediocre (1)

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Even here, Confusion is only situationally better. If the opponent has the right instant(s) in hand, they can win in response to the Confusion trigger...