[Deck] Dredge

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Originally Posted by FrabjousDaze

Wispmare is 1 mana. It has: "Evoke {W} (You may cast this spell for its evoke cost. If you do, it's sacrificed when it enters the battlefield.)" Evoke means that you still get the destroy target enchantment ability, and additionally trigger any bridges in your graveyard since it sac's itself, if somehow you have them there. Now it still won't deal with Cage, since that is an artifact, but Ingot Chewer can do that.

On that subject, I've got a question for all of you. I've been playing the same main deck that Drew Tunison played at GP DC with 2x Griselbrand and 1x FKZ. I've currently been playing 3x Chain of Vapor in my SB as my anti hate, since I'd rather not dilute the deck anymore than I have to and that card deals with everything short of Surgical. I don't currently play lands or petal in the SB.

So, how do you guys deal with Chalice of the Void on 1?

I can see playing abrupt decay, since that has the additional value of blanking chalice on 2 (I think that is how that works), and I've had Ingot Chewer recommended to me since it is 5 mana on the stack (is that correct?) but is still 1 mana like Wispmare and so it jumps around spell pierce, counterbalance, and chalice, which Chain and Claim do not. Has anyone had success playing abrupt decay + lands/petal in the more combo oriented builds? Or should I look to Ingot Chewer and Wispmare?

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Tested lots of games against a friend with the BoM-Loam-List (LotV and Chalice). Just playing postboard-matches, but this is a real beating. Luckily, I rarely see Chalices in tournaments (especially combined with LotV). If, then maybe Chewers may do their dirty work. Especially without additional lands from the board or Petals Decay might be to unreliable to cast.
Yes, Chewer will make it's way through a Chalice on 1 and Decay will not get countered by a Chalice on 2.:cool:

Edit: If a slow deck plays Chalice, DDD might also work, but nowadays DDD is rarely an option because most Legacy-Decks aren't "Slow"

Hi guys!

This might sound a bit ignorant, but: why is Careful Study better than Breakthrough? Drawing 2 more, discarding a lot more? I've just been trying this deck out a bit, and I'm sure there's a simple answer.

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Originally Posted by Daize

Hi guys!

This might sound a bit ignorant, but: why is Careful Study better than Breakthrough? Drawing 2 more, discarding a lot more? I've just been trying this deck out a bit, and I'm sure there's a simple answer.

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It seems to be a matter of safe controlled gameplay for less reckless players. I'm a big fan of tolarian winds, winds of change, So 4 breakthrough, balls out, is my style. I rarely get interrupted or brick on dredgers with good mulligans, so T1 T2 wins happen way more for me. The idea is not too blow your hand out into the yard turn 1-2 leaving no options after a crop rotation bojuka bog hits or tormods crypt then *poof it's all gone and left looking like a chump. Since RIP and ooze hit the scene, it's more important to hold back and calculate the moment to pounce. Tolarian is just hard to resist.., like a Griselbrand in the hand. Should prolly run petals for this "turbo" style devil may care" build. But speaking as a proper dredge player; it's very irresponsible ;)

Based on how often manaless is doing well in opens, I would say DDD does better than you're giving credit, but street wraith i personally think helps smooth those moments.

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Originally Posted by JPoJohnson

Based on how often manaless is doing well in opens, I would say DDD does better than you're giving credit, but street wraith i personally think helps smooth those moments.

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You're absolutely right here. That's one of the reasons why I play Wraiths in LED-Dredge atm.

Btw: It's not an exactly fair comparison between Manaless and LED, cause Manaless has far more gy-interactions and fewer dead weight, aka useless dredges.

Darkjester, that's exactly what I felt when trying out some Cockatrice LED dredge. I honestly felt like so many useless cards hit the graveyard :D. I'm probably not playing it properly.

Ottofromorbit - thanks for the elaborate reaction. So if I get it correctly, the idea is that LED dredge focuses practically solely on Bridge from Below, but can be more explosive than Manaless and can also hold back more without much of a drawback?

Gods I guess I should really see some other people playing it, if there's footage like that around.

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Originally Posted by Daize

Darkjester, that's exactly what I felt when trying out some Cockatrice LED dredge. I honestly felt like so many useless cards hit the graveyard :D. I'm probably not playing it properly.

Ottofromorbit - thanks for the elaborate reaction. So if I get it correctly, the idea is that LED dredge focuses practically solely on Bridge from Below, but can be more explosive than Manaless and can also hold back more without much of a drawback?

Gods I guess I should really see some other people playing it, if there's footage like that around.

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I am not sure if I follow that either.

Yeah I've played manaless. I found both are very fast. I've played vs manaless and it's 50-50. I can't seem to be consistent..k sur, mull til you have lotv but where's the fun in that.
Just appreciate the opportunities proper dredge offers when facing specific hate and can't live without my firestorms and colliseums. Fav cards in the deck

No. Since discarding your hand is part of the activation cost, it only happens once.

I'm also not sure how you flashbacked a Therapy when your opponent had a RiP in play.

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Originally Posted by ottofromorbit

I dont experience this moment to often but I think it's similar to a belcher casting burning wish and cracking led Situation:
Opp played rip
Wraith in hand
Therapy and wispmare in grave
Golgari thug, led and 2 city of brass in play

Resolve therapy Sac thug.
Topdeck wispmare
Maintain priority
Crack led for 3 white
Maintain priority
Cycle wraith, wispmare in hand..
Led still in stack would have it discarded.
Or no?

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You can't respond LED crack by maintaining priority. The discard part, as Hammafist said, is part of activation cost. In this case, you should Cycle Street Wraith and then respond by cracking LED.

The line of play would be this: After your Draw Phase, maintain priority while moving to Main Phase, so you can use the Therapy in your graveyard without fear of Swords to Plowshares (for example). After you Therapy, Golgari Thug triggers, putting Wispmare on top. Therapy resolves, you name a card. Then you cycle Street Wraith, and respond this ability by cracking LED. You discard your hand, add WWW to the mana pool, Street Wraith ability triggers, you draw Wispmare. Then, use the mana to cast Wispmare.

Either way, I don't know how you can Therapy in your opponent's turn main phase (when he plays RiP).

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Originally Posted by ottofromorbit

I dont experience this moment to often but I think it's similar to a belcher casting burning wish and cracking led Situation:
Opp played rip
Wraith in hand
Therapy and wispmare in grave
Golgari thug, led and 2 city of brass in play

Resolve therapy Sac thug.
Topdeck wispmare
Maintain priority
Crack led for 3 white
Maintain priority
Cycle wraith, wispmare in hand..
Led still in stack would have it discarded.
Or no?

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The moment your opponent plays the RiP and it enters the BF, your GY is exiled and thus useless, hence rendering your whole thoughtprocess mute. And since RiP exiles everything that would go to the GY, your Thugtrigger never happens.

good lord* i thought i cleared that text... i was wondering about triggers but thinking if RIP in grave , nothing doing with that fangled combo. i deleted my texting...but it got posted somehow.:rolleyes:

Definitely looking to be rocking the Dredge again, baby!

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

Definitely looking to be rocking the Dredge again, baby!

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Great news! What list will you run?

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Great news! What list will you run?

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The list that he tries for a month before quitting it again :-p

I'm looking to probably run an LED-based list...

With lands.

Obviously depends on what tournament you're attending, but if it's an SCG, I would recommend manaless. There's so much delver doing well right now and manaless just laughs at those decks.

Or run Firestorm main.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Or run Firestorm main.

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Four Firestorm in this deck compared to the overall advantage manaless has isn't comparable. Soft counters are really bad for dredge and there's so many spell pierces and dazes at an SCG open right now. It all depends on where you're taking the deck.

edit - And I mean the overall advantage against delver. Should've specified that.

I love dredge, but taking it to a huge tournament like an SCG is a brutal mistake.