How about blocking the 2/2 with Gatekeeper or Nighthawk?
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How about blocking the 2/2 with Gatekeeper or Nighthawk?
Nighthawk, not bad! Forgot to mention potential Elspeth flying pump (won't happen every game, but when it happens you just die..unless maybe a Nighthawk shows up, YEAH!)...and also that they are running removal, meaning that the one or two creatures this deck typically has on the field early game will be flung into exile while Geist (or at least his angel) attacks his way to victory. Nighthawk is awesome suggestion, but still vulnerable to the probably 4 swords to plowshares they are running. Definitely a starting point, but I'd be much more satisfied with a reliable way of getting rid of Geist before he even attacks. I'm not sure if that's asking too much from B/W deadguy or not, and if it is, I will definitely be siding a metamoprh and maindecking nighthawks from now on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
I don't think the Enlightened Tutor answer package is bad against these Bant decks! E-Tutor/Metamorph gives you an answer to Geist, a quasi-Stoneforge Mystic (Or Sword.. or Batterskull), a Knight of the Reliquary, or even a Goyf in a pinch!
This little package also give you outs against NO decks and Show/Sneak decks. It also seems to offer a lot of flexibility in a format where there are so many good/viable decks.
[QUOTE=fetterfool;608516]Hello. Long time reader, first time poster. This deck is the bees knees, but I ran into a problem...Bant with Geist of Saint Traft
Edict effects are good. I play Liliana of the Veil and Gatekeeper.
Also good sideboard card IMO is Massacre. It's an infest (-2/-2 all creatures until end of turn) for 4 mana...but if you have a swamp and they have a plains it's free. I like free. It's good against 2 of the more popular decks out there, blue.white stoneforge/snapcaster and Maverick. The free part is awesome, I played massacre against Maverick clearing the board for Liliana to maintain control of the board.
I can deal with Maverick, it's snapcaster blue/white i gotta deal with. If only Magic would start printing Hexproof creatures in colours other than blue and green... I'm so desparate, I put a lightning greaves in the board and I looked up every Pro white creature in black. There aren't many. Boo-urns. And no one hexproof or shroud.
Whereas Maverick is a pain in the butt for me aswell, UW(B) Stoneblade-Decks are nothing im scared off. Hymn+Thoughtseize+StP+Vindicate+Bitterblossom bring home the game most of the time - because I always throw Bobs and SFMs out to catch their counters, and once Bitterblossom resolves you just gotta get a Nighthawk/Jitte and the game is over for them.
Greetings
PS:I dont even board anything vs Stoneblades
Ok, thanks. Hmmm....gonna take out the 3 bloodghasts and put back in the 3 bitterblossoms and see how that goes. I lose the value from pitching the bloodghast to Liliana and the ghast helps somewhat vs. counterbalance but other than that.... But while I find Punishing fire annoying, I can deal with it. At least 8-16 Plowshare/path to exile effects = annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
Plus, Maverick can bloodghast with plowshares as well.
Agree, Creature decks, zoo and combo decks are way more scary then the blue decks are. Pretty much only bringing in manriki-Gusari in the UW-blade matchup. Bitterblossom is a beating for any blue decks I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
[QUOTE=Wilkin;608607]Massacre. Massacre. thank you, thank you, thank you. I started looking at black cards of the game... got through A and B and haven't gotten back to it yet... you did the work for me!! Massacre is EXACTLY what I was looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by fetterfool
And as this guy above me stated, Bitterblossom ruins U/W stoneblade. That deck has no way to deal with blockers that don't go away. Memorable game for me...1 life to 36 life...stablized (thanks to faeries) and batterskull swung me back to win the game. Seriously, if Bitterblossom resolves, Elspth is their only reasonable response, as she just mirrors your bitterblossom at that point...so just Vindicate her.
And seriously, thanks for your input about Massacre, heading to ebay immediately after hitting submit...
[QUOTE=fetterfool;609460]Doesn't Massacre wreck just about every dude in our deck too, though? Unless they are outfitted with equipment of course. Do you just play out Liliana and count on her to keep control of their side of the board? It seems like it could work, just seems like it punishes us for having a creature-heavy start too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
[QUOTE=TsumiBand;609470]I didn't even think of our side of the board, that's how bad it is when Geist hits the field. He just needs to go away ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by fetterfool
But since you mention, hm... my expierience with the deck shows 3 main routes: 1) early sweet sweet discard heavy hand; 2) turn 1 Bob; 3) turn 1 or 2 stoneforge... or at least I should say those are the hands I think are acceptable and thusly the sort of games my Deadguy provides.
I'm really concerned with early Geist, another point I didn't think to make until now. Later Geist...either you have some faeries mulling around or batterskull has your life total or potential life total at a safe level. To be honest, I haven't even faced a later Geist, my only expierience is two games where Geist hit the field turn 2 and turn 3. But I feel like the earlier he hits, the worse off Deadguy is.
ANYWAY, with all that said... to answer your question, no, I'm not worried about wiping our own field out. Either Geist is such an imminent threat that he needs to be dealt with THIS TURN, or our field is good enough that massacre is unnecessary.
I just want to add, I have yet to even try Liliana. She seems like she would be a good addition, or at least worth testing out. For reference to my experience (which I hold at a higher value than theory, though theory is cool, I guess), I am more or less playing this deck list http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=936761
[QUOTE=TsumiBand;609470]Yep Massacre can hurt our deck too. However, my build doesn't play that many actual creatures (about 12) and whatever tokens die, i'm not concerned about. Maverick plays a lot more creatures than Deadguy and the builds I've seen get wrecked by an infest effect....scryb rangers, mom, noble hierarch, dryad arbor, pridemage etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by fetterfool
Massacre I think is worth it since Maverick has more creatures and relies on them more than us to win the game. I also pack a perish for those really unfair one sided wrath effects.
Never run into Geist in Legacy yet. I'm surprised I haven't seen more of him, especially for those blue/white mirror matches as they both pack like 4 swords to plowshares and at least a few path to exiles. Yeah, massacre is awesome vs Maverick. Not quite as good vs blue/white stoneforge.
On the the Massacre. In the matchups where you board in massacre, the massacre is gonna ruin your opponents board alot more then your own. Its the same as when playing Engineered Explosives or Damnation.
Massacre doesn't look like something I want to put in DGA's sideboard. What matchups do you need it for that couldn't be solved by EE@1, Perish, Darkblast, etc.?
Geist of Saint Traft, man. Perish is ok, but doesn't take care of Geist. SB slots are reeeeeeal limited. I will be trying the Enlightened tutor package with Phyrexian Metamorph/Engineered Plague/extra Jitte AND a Massacre or two at a big tournament next weekend. Will post results.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfeingersh
SB slots are limited but you're going to dedicate Tutor, Metamorph, Plague (2?), Jitte and Massacare to dealing with a mediocre card that isn't seen in many decks that is really only a threat when they have an Elspeth too?Quote:
Originally Posted by fetterfool
If you really want to deal with White creatures, you can run Virtue's Ruin.
You might be on to something. I have not yet tested Massacre.
Massacre seems able to deal with Geist Bant, Maverick, and Goblins (as Damnation).
VS.
Kills all white creatures for 3 mana at sorcery:
Kills most things in Bant Geist effectivley, wipes maverick aside from ooze and any goyfs, though massacre probably won't kill those cards either. Also kills white weenies, but is that really a point worth making?
On a quick note refering back to the 'enlightened tutor package,' that is not just for Geist, should have said so...it is for tribals as well (i.e. two tutors plus plague and jitte). Also, I run 1 Planar Void and one crypt. That part of the package is for dredge.
It seems at a quick glance, Virtue's Ruin kills Knight of the Reliquary whereas Massacre doesn't.
Massacre plus all the removal/dicards guarantees victory over Goblins.
Massacre is free to play.
I have no idea which one is really better, defintely worth testing out.
Not gonna play either Massacre or Ruin atm, running Engineered Explosives and Perish in my board. But I do see the power in both Ruin and Massacre. What I like about Massacre is that you can very easly to arround Spell Pierce.
My current board is:
2 Perish
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Umezawa's Jitte (2nd jitte in the 75)
1 Mortarpod
3 Engineered Explosives
The board gives alot of stuff you can put in for discard in the dredge matchup as well changing some discard for sweepers against maverick. 12 Cards that can be brought in the dredge matchup. In the uw blade matchup I like the Manriki-Gusari and the Extraction. Only card you actually want to resolve against the UW deck is Bitterblossom. So thats really the only card that actually matters. Chance of having Dark Confidant or Stoneforge against swords / path with 4 snapcasters is very low.
Against tempo rug, Presuring their hand with discard then its just a matter of time before they cant counter your removal for their delver or goyf.
Not faced any geist yet but Edicts effect is gonna have to do it for now. Not gonna open up in other matchups for something its not a certainty to be facing. Just my opinion.
Any comments on my list? It has been running allright so far but it is always nice to hear what other people think
3 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
1 Jötun Grunt
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Aether Vial
3 Inquistion of Kozilek
4 Hymn To tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vindicate
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
3 Fetid Heath
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
SB:
3 Perish
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Planar Void
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ethersworn Cannonist
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Serenity
1 Sword of War and Peace (was meant to help with Zoo, but thinking about it I will probably fetch Jitte or Batterskull in most situations anyway, so I will likely change this, perhaps to Sword of Light and Shadow just to bring it in during the matchups where the protection is relevant)
1 Engineered Plague
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Circle of Protection Red
I was thinking about adding a single Bayou maindeck just so I can play a single Choke SB with the Enlightened Tutor package. Thoughts?
I was also considering Meekstone SB Since it only really affects my 1 Jötun Grunt, but I am not entirely sure if I want it badly enough to warrant the -1 card from Enlightened Tutor. This might just be more cute than actually effective.
I'm not a fan of Jotun Grunt, the slight benefit you gain by having a 1-of main is not going to be reliable enough to warrant it in many of the matches you want it. It's too slow for Dredge or Reanimator, so if its whole job is shrinking KOTRs (which is a respectable job) I would just as much rather have another removal spell.
I like the idea of Choke in the sideboard.
I think you can cut your Fetid Heaths for the Bayou you want as well as a couple more basics. There's really no need to cut so short on basics.
Fetid Heath is never coming out, I am abseloutly loving that card. Being able to turn the colorless from Wasteland into mana for Sculler or Hymn has been huge so far.
I have heard a lot of bad things about Grunt, but I figured I would at least give him a try. I know playing him as a one of is not exactly reliable, but it also means that I won't have to worry about ever drawing multiple of him and not being able to cast them all, and he seems like a decent beater at least.
I could perhaps cut a single fetch for the Bayou, but why do you think I need more basics? I have both WW and BB in the deck so lands that only produce 1 mana can bite me in the ass from time to time.