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I don't think I need more than 1x Witness in the main for graveyard synergy. I fooled around with Profane Command, but it's way too mana intensive. On the flip side, it offers something powerful to do in the late game and provides another form of reach, just like Rhino. However, Rhino does that better and I'm already playing 8 functional copies of it.
Has anybody fooled around with Liliana, the Last Hope? I traded into one and it seems very good against some decks.
Yep, me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Sylvan Library
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise (or Noble, but likely BOP)
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Shalai
1 Mystic Enforcer (tryin' him out)
1 Thragtusk
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Phyrexian Tower
7 Fetchlands
61
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
+2 can't remember right now
I'd LOVE to still run Spiritmonger, but we'll see.
I'm trying my best to get around Angler, which seems to be the biggest issue with the Rhino builds. Shalai and Qasali both pump if you need to (and so would Noble, but I want BOP to cast Blood Moon regularly. I don't want to be hamstrung on DRS wars to moon someone out) to be bigger. Liliana helps shrink to make combat math annoying to them, or to nuke their Strixes/YP/etc. and will recur your creatures, or just ping stuff until ultimate. Tusk trades and leaves a token, and shaves a previous attack.
Mystic Enforcer dies to Bolt and STP (what doesn't), but is always immune to K Command, Push, and will always swing past Leovold, Strix, DRS, Angler, etc. for at least 3, or blocks Angler all day. Flying means it'll go over TNN. 4 mana is a lot for most decks, but not so much for ours. Let's see. Spiritmonger, in contrast, is a house all the time, but we'll see. Played him yesterday in some testing and assuming he doesn't get countered, he is a menace (save for TNN).
Deed board away? Deed is from time where planeswalkers doesn't exist, so it can't kill Jace if i understood you well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
I can't see playing myself To The Slaughter over Vindicate (at least in Junk). The chance that u kill Planeswalker + Creature is very low and Vindicate can help u in Lands/Depths matchups, or kill some pesky artifact/enchantment. Vindicate is much more versatile then To the slaugter in my opinion.
I like Vindicate a lot, and I'm not even playing a copy since Sigarda is usually my go-to walker killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
-Matt
Also, Mystic Enforcer could also be Chameleon Colossus. Doesn't die to Bolt, Push, Decay, and blocks/swings past all the black dudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
-Matt
yea but the terminus.... the cursed TERMINUS!!! :) Thats the problem, with Jace on board, miracles just dig so deep, that they dig something everytime. On the other hand... they can dig for Force, counterspell or SNapcaster and flashback counterspell...Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
But again, you can aim lands...
I feel you may be misunderstanding me. I meant I would kill Jace by attacking him and I don't need to have the removal for creatures like tnn because I have deed. To the slaughter does a couple of good things but nic fit already does those things well. I figure a maindeck vindicate (which I play) and sideboard needles/duress deal with jace. My tnn tech is Doran (which tangles well with angler and lets rhino even up against it too.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargoron
Still, I'll probably put 1x to the slaughter in my board.
Edit: I'm really debating swords to plowshares over path, even with rhinos. If I don't have an explorer opening but I need to kill something, path still gets them lands. I feel like the life from swords would be a less dangerous tradeoff, in most cases.
Edit#2: the possibility of a deathrite shaman ban is getting stronger with a big saturation at gp birmingham. I feel this deck survives just fine without it, I would slot in 1x birds of paradise, 2 more cards, and move on with life. Thoughts?
@Mr. Safety On my phone atm, I'll get back to you tomorrow
A DRS ban severely weakens our best matchups, while helping some of our worst. It would not help the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Please expound. I assumed Drs was simply mana ramp 5-7 and occasional maindeck grave hate for reanimator/snaps/storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
You miss the whole message. He says he can beat the DRS decks and that the DRS decks keeps harder decks in check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
A banning dont effect the deck directly but makes the environment tougher.
Gotcha. I did miss that, lol. I thought he was referencing the impact of a no-drs nic fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
It was already explained but I was referring to the meta shifts it would cause. DRS helps to keep down the decks that we traditionally have bad matchups against, while we're also well positioned against the DRS decks. A DRS ban would likely just result in us playing more Sakura Tribe Elders, Birds of Paradise, or Noble Hierarchs but the rest of the meta would shift radically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Marc 'Bahra' Konig with Junk NicFit:
"Just won the Legacy challenge with Junk Nic Fit. Deck felt great, especially powerful vs the stompy decks. List needs -1 Primeval Titan +1 Knight of the Reliquary though. I'll stream the deck tomorrow."
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Lingering Souls
4 Green Sun's Zenith [EDIT Sorry missed GSZ when I originally posted the list]
4 Veteran Explorer
4 DRS
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania
1 Sigarda
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Garruk Relentless
SB
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
1 Reclamation Sage
Most decks don't run basics, those that do are hardly capable of using the extra mana. Besides, you also plan to pop Veteran Explorers - other decks don't run that many basics and we benefit from it more than those that do (since we're built to do so). The only exception might be Elves! but Swords isn't going to save that particular MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
On DRS - we don't just run it for ramp, it fullfills more roles than just that. Losing it will hurt us more than you think (and that's not even taking into account what Brael described).
That is one greedy (and seemingly antiquated) list. But hey, if it ain't broke... Am curious about the MUs he faced though.Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Out of curiosity, what's greedy about it? 22 lands doesn't seem that few, 4 DRS and a good number of removal spells, lingering souls as a 'cheaper' low-impact-value-card
This numboer of 4+ drops kind of looks greedy:
But he does say he would cut the Titan for a Knight and don't other Junk lists often play multiple Rhino?Quote:
1 Siege Rhino
1 Thragtusk
1 Titania
1 Sigarda
1 Primeval Titan
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
Not trying to argue, just wondering what the logic is here
Nic Fit can get away with quite a few 4-drops, it's the amount of 5- and 6-drops that's greedy. He only runs 21 lands by the way, Ghost Quarter is a spell and not a land :wink:.
Cutting the Titan seems like the right thing to do. In this particular build that's the card that gives you the least bang for your relative buck. I'm not sure if he'd be better off playing Dromoka or Carnage Tyrant though so he doesn't have a top-end that folds to Karakas/StP.
To be fair (and for playing Titania and Ishkanah), your opponent usually doesn't want to use Karakas on those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
19 creatures (12 requires an answer) +2 Lingering should be enough to outgrind any list with 7 STP.
Back to the old days...This list is very fair but I guess with all these stompy around, he made the perfect choice.
Could we have a breakdown of his MUs (just for the sake of it)?
Wiiiiii finally some lingering souls :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
And iam interested in KoTR. I used to play 1xKotR in junk nicfit, but it was ... just meh. BUT these days with Turbo depths/lands ... it could be a solid pick. And obvious combo with Tireless Tracker/Titania.
U run 8x mana acceleration. Isn't it too much? I mean, its not a card u want to draw in late game.
BTW: general discusion: Are u prefer Pithing Needle over Spyglass with 4x Cabal Therapy in main? OR It's not worth the lost speed?
I tend to gravitate towards Pithing Needle. I know what cards I want to name anyways, so why tax myself?