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I would run neither of your lists, BB, shaving Wisps like that. I would also NEVER run 4 Spirits, I dont see that happening. But I could be proved wrong.
4 Mom
4 Thalia
4 Revoker
4 SFM
3 Flickerwisp
3 Avenger
2 Spirit
2 Brimaz
You might be right about shaving a land though, as this creature base has up to 3 less 3-drops than I'm used to. That could give is the 4th Avenger (or third Spirit, I guess...), perhaps.
The new toys are great and all (and I look forward to playing with them) but I will be playing sanctioned Legacy with D&T before they come out and I have a question about the list I intend to play. So far I have the following:
9 Plains
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Serra Avenger
3 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Spellskite
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
2 Cataclysm
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Meekstone
1 Stony Silence
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Wilt-Lead Leige
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Manriki-Gusari
Local metagame concerns: Jund, Miracles, Stoneblade ... Mainly fair decks, very few glass cannons, Storm and Show and Tell underrepresented. A moderate amount of Shardless and Delver and the odd Affinity and Dredge.
The list is 59 cards. Unorthodox card choices are hedges against Punishing Fire (Spellskite) and Helm of Obedience and friends (Stony Silence, Seal of Cleansing), probably the two most popular strategies I've seen locally recently. What should my 60th maindeck card be, and are there any major problems my list might have that the top-placing and well-known lists don't? I'm currently considering additional copies of any creature I'm running less than 4 of, as well as Mangara, Mindcensor, Restoration Angel, and Preacher, but I can't convince myself compellingly that any particular call among these is correct.
I would add the 4th Flickerwisp. They are so flexible that outside being mana screwed they almost always do something useful. At least they swing for 3 in the air. I like your sideboard, but instead of Stony Silence I would consider Pithing Needle. It hits the same targets with the benefit of hitting Deathrite Shaman, Wirewood Symbiote, Sneak Attack, Planeswalkers and other random annoyances as well. Plus you already run 4 Revokers to shut down Helm, Top, EE...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pans-Advocate
Also I would play -1 Horizon Canopy, +1 Plains, but that's more of a personal preference.
Anyone interested in testing Brimaz and SoL on cockatrice before the whole set is revealed, I uploaded a cards.xml with those two cards added. http://www.speedyshare.com/Sft8g/cards.xml (Be sure to click on the file name to download, not the green ad button.)
In my experience 3 is the correct number for Flickerwisps, despite its obvious applications w/o Vial and TNN's presence.
just my 3 Pence
60th should be Wisp, unless you want to do some cuts for 2 mangara. I also would cut the canopies for plains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pans-Advocate
If Jund is a concern,run more than 1 liege in the board. It is a threat they have very few answers to.
And never run Preacher or Resto.
Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.
Honestly i prefer a singleton Mangara than 4x wisp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
I agree perfectly on the plains topic: cut the canopies. And never ever run Resto; while the Preacher is really cute it is way too fragile.
- L
I've played a couple games vs various BUG decks, and I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised that it's not a horrible match-up. :)
don't be surprised, the mana base of most bug decks is horrible lol. Most tri-color decks are vulnerable to our mana denialQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy
Jund is the only one I'd be concerned about, and that's in part due to their removal packageQuote:
Originally Posted by raikenxy
Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.
This has been doing well on Cockatrice:
2 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 AEther Vial
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Serra Avenger
2 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Cataclysm
If you're planning on running such a light splash (ie for 4 Confidant, ZP out of the board) I would suggest going down to 3 Scrublands, cut the swamp, and add in more Cavern of Souls - the land is insane, and Confidant is a Human which meshes perfectly with Thalia + Mom. Avenger is a risky 4 of IMO, I'd cut the 4th and add a 3rd Flickerwisp, its just too good not to have access to every game. Not to mention Vial @ two means you don't even have to search out the Scrub most of the time if you don't actually need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by akatsuki
Otherwise, the addition of B seems to favour Brimaz; Persecution is huge with token generation, and you could swap Thoughtseize for Therapy and try that out (if you're confident with your Therapy naming, that is ;) )
Seems cool! let us (me) know how it tests.
@MrShine: Caverns and Vials can't cast Persecution and discard, though.
@akatsuki: Against what did you play? And unless you know that your opponent is a good player, I would take the Cockatrice testing with a grain of salt.
I just played 6 matches, I don't think the list is tuned by any means. The heavy color requirement of Zealous is actually annoying sometimes, so that's why the manabase is what it is. Brimaz+Therapy does sound interesting, but Brimaz just seems a bit underpowered. Maybe I'm wrong.
I just wanted to post this list because I think SotL is very, very good, and I think splashing black gives us an answer to TNN while also protecting us from Golgari Charm etc. Hopefully this will get other people thinking and maybe try some of my ideas and maybe we can make D&T 2.0
I know, and unfortunately its tough to run such a light splash in the end without opening up too much. It may be that 4 Scrub is fine; we have tons of wasteland targets in the deck anyway so they won't always find the scrubs. However, we can still hedge as much as possible by leaving fetches until they're actually needed (to cast Persecution) much in the same way Miracles or similar control decks wait to get the splash colour until they are about to use it right then and there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Its debatable whether bringing in a bunch of Spells from the SB is effective when our main goal is still to stick Thalia and tax their mana with waste/port. I'm not even sure discard is better than hatebears most of the time, but it DOES work with Spirit to shut off their cantrips and thus their ability to just find what they once we've stripped it.
Where is tide hollow sculler at?
Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.
I'm not sure I agree with putting that many non-basics in D&T. Its strongest asset is not falling prey to a greedy manabase.
This is what I have been eyeing most, is a d&t 2.0. I think Sotl + Confidant is going to be amazing. Would love to find a nice package to make it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by akatsuki
This is the trend that even some Deadguy lists are taking: maintain their hand disruption + DC in an D&T shell (hatebears + vial + sfm). SotL will be a nice addiction i think. I want to test it so hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by akatsuki
- L
I've done the black splash for bob and sculler before, and honestly the strengths of the extra color don't make up for the weaknesses of having to run fetches and making more of ur lands wasteland targets. Mono white is strictly betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Looooooooo
I don't disagree, in the past I have tested different color splashes and you're right. For the most part adding multicolored bears doesn't boost the deck enough to validate the mana instability. The present difference worth noting is the degree to which the format is impacted by Zealous Persecution. Giving your opponents - TNN, Elves, Bobs/Strixes, Moms/Wisps, etc -1/-1 is similar to a 1-sided mass removal spell. It can blank an opposing Golgari Charm and provide a combat trick in creature stalemates.Quote:
Originally Posted by raikenxy
I think with the new cards coming on Born of the Gods it's likely the list gets shaken up a bit. I haven't tested akatsuki's configuration, but I see ZP as one of the more impactful cards to consider splashing in the current meta.